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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: HC at the Bookies: how bad will Heroes 7's release be lol
Thread: HC at the Bookies: how bad will Heroes 7's release be lol This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 30, 2015 01:10 PM bonus applied by Elvin on 30 Aug 2015.

Poll Question:
HC at the Bookies: how bad will Heroes 7's release be lol

Hello Heroes,

so a riveting tale to share with you today dear Heroes, last week after ten too many drinks down my nearest bookmakers I alighted my seat for an urgent appointment with the restroom, when who should I all too literally bump into but our dear friend Erwin himself!

as I collected myself from the ground while he corrected his misaligned fedora, I couldn't but ask "o yon gentleman Erwin, how goes thy current pressing attendance, the development of Heroes 7?" dare I swear that for just a split second an expression of ungodly, near-nightmarish panic flickered across his face (such that his bowels, I presumed, might have reflexively cried for that spare stall louder even than mine) before settling, almost mechanically, into his trademark disingenuous grin with a knowing tap of the nose and a "wait and see, dear Verriker!"

my acquaintance disappeared in a flash, be it conveniently-timed work of magic of the dragon gods of the world of Ashan the world of Might & Magic or merely a hazy blinked flare of low consciousness from my own intoxication I cannot say, but yet still I nodded and pondered his words, mumbling "as too before in Heroes 5 and 6, let's wait and see indeed! let's wait and see, dear Erwin!" if such messianic souls as he could attend a place such as this, why, I belched in noble epiphany, couldn't HC come down the bookies as well!

dear Heroes, discover the options and please, vote to determine how bad the release of Heroes 7 will be! those who select the erwinning option with PMs of proof are guaranteed a can of Britain's cheapest lager (and finest piss substitute) when next we bump into one another down me local, so whatever you do don't select that one lol

Heroes,

1,000,000/1 Tier Ha Ha In Your Goddamn Dreams
surprising literally everyone, Ubilimb actually realize their ambitions and create the best of Heroes, releasing a day one game beyond any kind of reasonable improvement and finally surpassing NWC, cementing their reputations as the best developers in the series' history, lol

400,000/1 The Long Shadow Tier (Heroes 3 Tier)
september fools! in a massive but welcome twist, all four factions from the Shadow Council vote are added (Fortress and Inferno secretly developed behind our backs), the game is incredibly polished and runs very smoothly, includes dozens of maps and ships with few or zero bugs, and only minimal patching is necessary; this game is widely considered the benchmark to surpass, and later games' devs and fans alike downplay or resent it for being unrealistically good

175,000/1 No BS Tier (Tier Heroes 2)
clean, confident and unassuming, this game makes sequels look easy; refining and expanding its predecessor, throwing out the bad and perfecting the good, filled with top-quality content and focused in every way, the title is seen as the definitive Heroes game by many and wins awards across the board! some critique its lack of innovation while sobbing in bed in a darkened room silently but cloyingly contemplating the futility of all life

2,000/1 Tier Earning My Wings (Heroes 5 Tier)
can't get a lot worse so it only gets better, this tier plays the long game; upon release the project is easily the most unpolished broken disgraceful mess in the history of the series and a pretty crap flagship to usher in the new era, but the core is full of very realistic potential and in a heartwarming and celebrated turn of events, this one rolls uphill! it's a bumpy and ungraceful road but by the end, this Heroes game ranks among the best of all, with its considerable rough edges and room for improvement mostly neutralized by forgiveable circumstances and quality where it matters most

600/1 Marmite of Icarus Tier (Tier Heroes 4)
it's not enough for everyone, but everyone it's for can't get enough! the game releases in a slightly below average state with many balance issues and broken non-essential but important features, with incredibly ambitious but somewhat poorly executed design; the game improves some areas and in others is even the best in the series, but production problems and many badly-handled or outright weird choices, though justifiable and even embraced by a select few, prevent it from challenging its predecessors

2/1 Dishwater Tier
drinks on me we all called it; in this painfully dull and probably inevitable tier, let's face it that the game probably releases in unspectacular fashion, somewhat better than Heroes 6 in most ways, worse than all previous entries bar arguably Heroes 4, and is best summed up as a lame or passable tribute act; there may be some initial heated controversy about server outages, pockets of crap design or whatever else I don't even care I'm not playing it lol, though by the end of the support process this one might just be considered acceptable, if largely uninspired

7/1 Tier Supermassive Mistake (Heroes 6 Tier)
an entry to forget! yes it's come to this, this game is so intrinsically botched it releases in an even worse state than its own previous beta (itself a pre-alpha in disguise) and in an unprecedented debacle even manages to kill off its own studio; low on content with truly backwards priorities and essential features underdeveloped or exposed as the inherently bad ideas they were, we can expect many cringeworthy tell-all scandals, bungled patches, half-assed intercontinental expansions and/or bad excuses in this title's future before being unceremoniously dropped like a 5,505 °C brick, lol

50/1 Outdone Themselves Tier
redefining the meaning of failure, this game is clearly cursed on release; objectively bad in every conceivable way, it literally kills a kitten every time somebody launches the .exe lol, and the fact the four horsemen of the apocalypse show up exactly one week after launch should have been completely predictable in hindsight
____________


Responses:
1,000,000/1 Ha Ha In Your Goddamn Dreams
400,000/1 The Long Shadow H3
175,000/1 No BS H2
2,000/1 Earning My Wings H5
600/1 Marmite of Icarus H4
2/1 Dishwater
7/1 Supermassive Mistake H6
50/1 Outdone Themselves
 View Results!

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2015 02:09 PM

H5 tier, best case scenario. Unrealistic, but I'd like to hope. No way it can get any better, ever.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted August 30, 2015 02:19 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 14:26, 30 Aug 2015.

everthing is tied with polishing/debugging/fixing. considering there is only one month left, it looks hard to expect a good day one release, but in theory, this game has a potential to become The Long Shadow, even without modding calculated in formula.

if modding and expensions do good, this game have the potential to be even better in future.

im deadly serious about this. say whatever you want, cry SKILLWHEEL, HERO SPECS.. they are not that bad like you guys mention. there is nothing built terribly broken to prevent fix. the potential is still here and living.

...if only devs delay the game release and continue to write in here, listen feedback and fix/debug things like there is no tomorrow!

i am patient and i still have faith. i respect the progress made.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 30, 2015 02:19 PM

Yeah, H5 tier seems about right. A bit more polished (as in it's mostly playable right now) but not by much.

The real question is if it's gonna do better than H6 or not.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 30, 2015 02:32 PM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 14:33, 30 Aug 2015.

I go with the safest bet

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted August 30, 2015 02:36 PM

cleglaw said:
everthing is tied with polishing/debugging/fixing. considering there  is only one month left, it looks hard to expect a good day one release, but in theory, this game has a potential to become The Long Shadow, even without modding calculated in formula.

if modding and expensions do good, this game have the potential to be even better in future.

im deadly serious about this. say whatever you want, cry SKILLWHEEL, HERO SPECS.. they are not that bad like you guys mention. there is nothing built terribly broken to prevent fix. the potential is still here and living.


It is not just about specializations and skill system; these are just the beginning. It is just there are more issues than you may think: townscreens being awful (well, most of them), too little creature abilities (some of them not that useful), some re-used creatures that shouldn't have appeared (like lamasu or black dragon) or not enough spells per school.

And these are just major issues. For there are some less important, but without them, the game feels a step back. Such things are seer's hut, some buildings (like stables, redwood observatory, windmill, water wheel etc.).

Lastly, while the skill system can (roughly) be said as random, there are still abilities that very few want to pick, like eagle eye, navigaton or scholar (whatever H7 calls them). You'd be expect them to have at least some bonus tied to it, so you can at least consider picking it.

And there are still some other things to consider, on how to expand gameplay experience. Of course, devs do that, but I feel that section has a much bigger importance.

My rating? If lucky enough to remove most major (and minor) bugs, it can be nearly successful as H4. A small success, but not a failure. We'll see.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 30, 2015 02:38 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 14:39, 30 Aug 2015.

Quote:
all four factions from the Shadow Council vote are added (Fortress and Inferno secretly developed behind our backs),


long shadow is impossible to achieve

Personally I think that it will be H6 over again, just a bit better

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 30, 2015 02:49 PM

I don't know on which base there would be any hope. I tested, loading time exaggerated, game over. Can you imagine a car which stops several minutes every time you turn a corner? So why a game can make it while several dozens of minutes at each session consist in staring at immobile screen?
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Era II mods and utilities

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 30, 2015 02:49 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 14:50, 30 Aug 2015.

I'll go also with the safe odds and vote "Dishwater", which seems to pretty much mirror what we have now. It might get better than that, but fundamental design decisions prevents this from ever reaching H5 state, much less anything above that.

PS: Thank you for an absolute brilliant summary in OP!
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What will happen now?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 30, 2015 03:01 PM

I would like to believe H5 tier but that will take 2 addons to find out. Safer bet is H4 tier, failing to challenge its predecessors due to issues despite being fun to play.

But since the reward seems too good to be true I'm voting H5!

I still would like to have a beer with verriker though
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 30, 2015 03:03 PM

Elvin said:

I still would like to have a beer with verriker though


You are not the only one

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 30, 2015 03:08 PM

Elvin said:


I still would like to have a beer with verriker though


Only one?

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 30, 2015 04:04 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 16:12, 30 Aug 2015.

Dishwater here too. I think the game will be better than H6 and maybe H4 but won’t reach or surpass the success of any other. The only way to reach H5 bar is, if the devs eliminate the “constraints” (as they love to call it) via implementing features like random heroes where you can build (random) tree which is offered by a random skill system. Some people already complained that end up with the same skill build for some classes as the alternatives are not satisfactory. This is my main issue about this game. I don’t count the bugs as I expect that Limbic will manage to kill the major bugs… maybe not for the release but through patches.

Less important but still important things are also BRAND NEW content, hero specializations, combat creatures’ size, adventure map objects’ size and representation. I see many people complain about the ore, starsilver and shadowsteal (I hope I don’t confuse them). You can see on the picture below how the resources look without any effects just textures (in 3ds max) and their respective icons in the UI. It’s clear that the shapes of gold, ore, starsilver and shadowsteal are quite similar. There’s variation of color but the in-game effects make everything greyish (except gold) and it’s hard to distinguish. And why the hell the difference between starsilver pick-up pile and UI icon is so drastic. Make the pile just one long crystal as it’s on the UI.


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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 30, 2015 04:36 PM

I went for the Outdone Themselves tier as I rather see this game as MMH2 if we consider Heroes 6 was MMH1 and the series died after Heroes 5. Oh wait, we have ERA, HotA and H5.5.
Cursed on release because of false advertising: claiming the game is a best-of being done with the community and dismissing so many insights provided by some top players –as we could see in forums with some very insightful threads done over the years, and probably the best input also done from the inside- is beyond my tolerance, and as much as I’d wish for this game to surprise us all with expansions, I am firmly convinced the mindset of the Team for this opus is wrong from the start and therefore preventing the game to even beat Heroes 4, which had despite its underdevelopment at least the charm of the series in terms of lore and immersion, both aspects IMO severely damaged by all Ubi titles, no matter how brilliant the potential of Heroes 5 was in terms of gameplay and a gold mine to dig on for further titles.

I dream of a game with the atmosphere of the NWC game, bringing back a lore which one could correlate in full coherency with the original universe –such a huge potential just sitting there IMO- and a gameplay which would exceed all expectations and introducing innovative features, yet keeping true to the pure tradition of HoMM.

alcibiades said:
PS: Thank you for an absolute brilliant summary in OP!

Highly agree.
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 30, 2015 05:59 PM

Outdone themselves. Simply put, the game is so crappy it's unfair to human waste everywhere to call it crap.
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted August 30, 2015 08:03 PM

Super massive mistake : H6 Tier.

I don t know how this title could be better than his brother.



I can t swallow flanking, diplomacy, OP/IMABALANCE racial factions, cheap buildings.

I blame UBI to have no care about this title and pay Limbic to do the job.

If you wanna good stuff, do it yourself.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 30, 2015 08:13 PM

Something between H5 and H4 at the end of its life cicle. H3 lightning will most likely never strike again, that is a thing of the past but it may get it's own audience like H4/5 did. (went for  H5 option)
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 30, 2015 08:23 PM

Still this game will below H3 and H5.

Crappy skill system(Annouced to be mix of H5-H6), afwul townscreens(like in H6), terrible hero specializations, In previous games hero had specialty like Logistics, Offense, Sorcery, Dark Ritual etc. They weren't same heroes in all factions.

Racial skills were good and nice.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 30, 2015 08:54 PM
Edited by Galaad at 01:44, 03 Oct 2015.

Quote:
H3 lightning will most likely never strike again

I honestly don’t see why not. Heroes III was such a success for I think the only reason it was a logical sequel of its predecessors, such as Heroes V was to Heroes III gameplay-wise (after being fully patched ofc). To me the proof is the interest of the modding community, countless mods for the former and the latter is starting to truly shine with the ongoing work from Magnomagus, Xuxo, Quantomas and others.
I think in terms of mechanics what we need is a game which would be the logical continuation of Heroes V and expand the system even further.
I fail to understand why at Ubisoft they want to explore so much the dark areas of the series (H4/H6) instead of focusing on what made the experience so unique (H2-H3-H5). Of course III and V are not perfect, and I believe this is what sequels are made for: correct and improve (and that goes beyond gameplay), eventually add something new but be careful with it -ie not go the opposite direction such as limiting the random a max and/or failing to properly implement the random (H7 optional RS).

The random skill system I believe has been a succession of constant headaches for the developers as it has never been perfected and has it flaws in all games, yet it is IMO again one of the most crucial aspects of the series, for reasons I want to say all of us know as they have been posted time and again by many members of this board.
Therefore I consider studying its mechanics in depth and seeking for the way to eventually reach an incredible version of it like one of the most enthralling quest a HoMM developer could work on. Same goes for the magic system and how it will interact with the skill system. Then you add hero specials, creature abilities and so on and make it all work together, the more unique it can be the better, how else? Of course it is not easy, who said it was?

I am tired of the "thing of the past" or "nostalgia" argument, I am certainly not nostalgic of Heroes 5 (Ashan, visuals, we know..) yet I consider its current state with 5.5 to be the most accomplished of all Heroes games (in terms of mechanics). The only thing it still lacks for custom games IMO are the visuals, even though it is already lightyears better than what Ubi with Nival delivered on that aspect thanks to the new textures and the redefined creatures the game now benefits (ofc all models are now ten years old and I just cry when I start to imagine how it could actually look in this time and year).

All I’m trying to say is if a new Heroes game was to be built upon III and V, with a II atmosphere (still never met someone saying he didn’t like how II looks, most of the times people say it looks better than III and I agree), and add details (ie market of time, enhanced witch huts, more diverse creature banks etc, perfections are in the details, not in the revolution, IMO), it would truly shine and literally bury all of precedent iterations because that new one would be so captivating there would be no reason to look back anymore.

I still believe it is possible, but certainly not for VII, too many wrong core decisions, IMO
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 30, 2015 09:25 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 21:31, 30 Aug 2015.

Hi Galaad.
I wrote what I wrote not in the name of nostalgia but from the perspetive of the current state of the industry.

You se times change, trends and desires of gamers do asw ell and I honestly do not belive that at this time, or any future time, TBS could be as influencial as they were in the late 1990's. You spoke about the  success of H-V in the end. But time wise is closer to H III then to H VII. It is an almost decade old game now. Think about that. With the current trend of Action adventure games and Sandbox games, Do you think there is a place for a TBS among the very top?

Mobile platforms are more likely, but do they create legends? Games people talk about much later in their life? Personaly IDK. Their are a lot of good games on the lower/midle production ranks but hiting it high up? Sorry i don't belive this. I personaly like the game, I like the genre, but I am not the majority of consumers.

But only time will tell if I'm wrong or not. I'm often wrong and it would be nice if this was the case, but right now, the game will at best create a small dedicated Fanbase, as the did its good ancestors. That is what I hope for it.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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