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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Map Editor is even worse than H6
Thread: Map Editor is even worse than H6 This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT»
natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 30, 2015 04:35 PM

@Marzhin
I will try Kismet editor and report back tonight. I am glad we are on the same page about missing key functions in script editor.

For now changing reward/guard of battle sites is not a big deal. There should be several prefixed armies not 100-200 range. Battle sites are crap in general- all for end game lol.

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted September 30, 2015 04:48 PM

natalka said:
I know where the so called Expert Mode is.. I will give you 3 tasks to complete and share here how they will be done. If they are not possible then this editor is worse than h6.


You're focusing on the few very specific things the editor cannot do instead of seeing all the major things it actually does much better than H6. You know as well as I do you don't need these things to create good Heroes maps, so they are not what make an editor better or worse. The general usability and simplicity, and how easy it is for people to create maps, is what counts.

Although I agree, it would be nice to add them at some point (especially the scripts to add random artifacts and various rewards, I'm missing them too). Some functionalities (such as buildings with a random chance of various effects) are not in the game currently, I hope we can add some later.

To answer one point of your first post in Kismet you can actually use the "Manipulate Town Building" to add/disable buildings in towns.

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted September 30, 2015 04:52 PM

Maurice said:
Marzhin, do you have experience with H5's script editor? If so, how would you compare it to H7?

I haven't yet powered up the Map Editor so I haven't seen what the script editor can do yet, but I've always considered the script editor of H5 to be very powerful, allowing map builders to pull off some crazy stuff.


It's very different. In H5 you add to write all by hand, and as a result you had more freedom. Scripting in H7 is done by selecting functions in a drag n drop list and choosing among predefined options. In Kismet (available in Unreal "expert" mode) you have some more functions such as random number comparisons and so on. Although it's more technical, and users planning to dive into it should definitely read the documentation first

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted September 30, 2015 05:01 PM

if the editor can't pull off those very rudimentary requests natalka suggested it sounds like it is not that powerful or intuitive in practice, that's not really a good show lol
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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 30, 2015 05:05 PM

Marzhin said:
natalka said:
I know where the so called Expert Mode is.. I will give you 3 tasks to complete and share here how they will be done. If they are not possible then this editor is worse than h6.


You're focusing on the few very specific things the editor cannot do instead of seeing all the major things it actually does much better than H6. You know as well as I do you don't need these things to create good Heroes maps, so they are not what make an editor better or worse. The general usability and simplicity, and how easy it is for people to create maps, is what counts.

Although I agree, it would be nice to add them at some point (especially the scripts to add random artifacts and various rewards, I'm missing them too). Some functionalities (such as buildings with a random chance of various effects) are not in the game currently, I hope we can add some later.

To answer one point of your first post in Kismet you can actually use the "Manipulate Town Building" to add/disable buildings in towns.



Excuse but here people are not average noobs in mapmaking and those specific features are extremely important to us.

Usability, Simplicity(UI) those are the things that are better and nothing more.
EnergyZ said in other post "one step forward, two steps back". Here it applies to a great extent.

I will trade the better UI any day for the returning of this basic(at least for me and many others) script tools. We now have a beautiful tool that does nothing. It looks that it took me less than an hour to pinpoint the "specific" things experienced mapmakers will be looking in your editor. I stand behind my words - for now the editor is just a bareboned skeleton in a fancy dress.

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted September 30, 2015 05:45 PM

Marzhin said:


You're focusing on the few very specific things the editor cannot do instead of seeing all the major things it actually does much better than H6. You know as well as I do you don't need these things to create good Heroes maps, so they are not what make an editor better or worse. The general usability and simplicity, and how easy it is for people to create maps, is what counts.




now i lost faith in putting heroes 3 into heroes 7.


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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted September 30, 2015 05:57 PM

Guys... word of advise. Don't go making maps right away. Wait 2-3 months. You never know when a patch will make all previous maps obsolete or some snow like that.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 30, 2015 06:48 PM

I think Kismet might give me the functionality I want but will take some time to learn it.

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted September 30, 2015 06:51 PM

We said it before but again, Heroes VII doesn't stop today. With the Lost Tales planned for the end of the year, I certainly hope some new functions and content will be added to the map editor. It's not because your favourite function is missing today that it won't be added in the near future
I'd be more interested to have a clear list of the features you (= the mapmaking community as a whole) think are missing, that way I can discuss them with the editor team at Limbic and see what can be done in future patches.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted September 30, 2015 07:32 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 19:53, 30 Sep 2015.

Marzhin said:
In H5 you add to write all by hand, and as a result you had more freedom. Scripting in H7 is done by selecting functions in a drag n drop list and choosing among predefined options
Having coded both in the extremely unfriendly but powerfull ERM and with the limited Heroes IV menus, I definitively choose the harder way if I can't do the things I want with the other.
Marzhin said:
We said it before but again, Heroes VII doesn't stop today. With the Lost Tales planned for the end of the year, I certainly hope some new functions and content will be added to the map editor. It's not because your favourite function is missing today that it won't be added in the near future
I'd be more interested to have a clear list of the features you (= the mapmaking community as a whole) think are missing, that way I can discuss them with the editor team at Limbic and see what can be done in future patches.
Am I the only one who only reads here the explicit admition this product is going to be released in a beta state?

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted September 30, 2015 07:35 PM

I prefer H5 scripting, as you actually have a proper script language

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted September 30, 2015 07:37 PM

Marzhin said:
We said it before but again, Heroes VII doesn't stop today. With the Lost Tales planned for the end of the year, I certainly hope some new functions and content will be added to the map editor. It's not because your favourite function is missing today that it won't be added in the near future


I certainly hoped Heroes 6 would blossom into the game of the year and justify my 60 investment, we all know how that turned out though lol

anyway I definitely avoid this game if not even editor is in a sincere state right now lol
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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 30, 2015 10:08 PM

Marzhin said:
We said it before but again, Heroes VII doesn't stop today. With the Lost Tales planned for the end of the year, I certainly hope some new functions and content will be added to the map editor. It's not because your favourite function is missing today that it won't be added in the near future
I'd be more interested to have a clear list of the features you (= the mapmaking community as a whole) think are missing, that way I can discuss them with the editor team at Limbic and see what can be done in future patches.


Can we expect that you listen to our opinion in the thread 'missing features and bad design decisions'?

If you are going to listen we can make petition on various topics.

Please fix that champion external dwelling. I can`t go to sleep ever since I realized that it is random.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted September 30, 2015 10:11 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 22:18, 30 Sep 2015.

If what is said about the map editor is true then I will probably never get this game. What a shame, my hopes are being crushed.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted September 30, 2015 10:25 PM

Last time I could make a map was back in H4. Seems Editor fails again... Sad that you need a degree in computer science to do anything in it nowadays. Even sadder that it fails so spectacularly at the simplest of tasks.

@Marzhin: Your propaganda-spewing makes me sick. And at one time I considered you one of the guys...
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You're someone else's problem
Now I only want you gone...
-Glados

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 30, 2015 10:27 PM

There's really no need for drama.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 30, 2015 10:29 PM

The_Polyglot said:

@Marzhin: Your propaganda-spewing makes me sick. And at one time I considered you one of the guys...


Hey, he still has to do his job. Even if this is his free time, he can't suddenly start making miracles. Especially if he does not have such authority.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted September 30, 2015 10:41 PM
Edited by Galaad at 17:11, 11 Oct 2015.

Stevie said:
There's really no need for drama.

It's no drama but a remark.
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"Corribus is a teddy bear" - Blizzardboy

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Madaxe
Madaxe

Tavern Dweller
posted September 30, 2015 10:58 PM

The_Polyglot said:
Last time I could make a map was back in H4. Seems Editor fails again... Sad that you need a degree in computer science to do anything in it nowadays. Even sadder that it fails so spectacularly at the simplest of tasks.

@Marzhin: Your propaganda-spewing makes me sick. And at one time I considered you one of the guys...


Marzhin has been one of the few guys over time that has shown he cares about the series and the product being delivered.  He is probably one of the few in the company that wants Heroes 7 to succeed from more than just a financial standpoint.....but from and actual love of the game!

He even came into this hornets nest to try and answer questions...knowing full well the level of the vitriol

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted September 30, 2015 11:09 PM

Madaxe said:
Marzhin has been one of the few guys over time that has shown he cares about the series and the product being delivered. He is probably one of the few in the company that wants Heroes 7 to succeed from more than just a financial standpoint.....but from and actual love of the game!

He even came into this hornets nest to try and answer questions...knowing full well the level of the vitriol


the road to hell is paved with good intentions, if this tool is as dense and unfriendly as it seems (and I boycott the game, I won't know one way or the other lol) it's probably better for anyone on Ubi payroll to let that be determined originally by the users than to step in and try to damage control us lol
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