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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Heroes series - back to the drawing board?
Thread: Heroes series - back to the drawing board? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 02, 2015 08:41 PM

Dies_Irae said:
Why didn't H6 win the praise Civ 5 received? Apparently, doing something completely different can have the desired effect.


Meh, civilization 5 is not a good game, in the sense we are used with civ series. But the civ 5 package, with ModBuddy, Nexus Fire and map editor are on the top of technology at player's nose. Basically you can safely mod every bit and pixel of the game, already 15000 mods out. And now, when you browse them and pick what addresses your annoyances, you have the game of your dreams. This is light years above Heroes editors.
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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Official spokesbirb
posted October 02, 2015 08:46 PM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 20:48, 02 Oct 2015.

Salamandre said:
Dies_Irae said:
Why didn't H6 win the praise Civ 5 received? Apparently, doing something completely different can have the desired effect.


Meh, civilization 5 is not a good game, in the sense we are used with civ series. But the civ 5 package, with ModBuddy, Nexus Fire and map editor are on the top of technology at player's nose. Basically you can safely mod every bit and pixel of the game, already 15000 mods out. And now, when you browse them and pick what addresses your annoyances, you have the game of your dreams. This is light years above Heroes editors.


And that should be something that requires discussion 'at the drawing board'. I have never played any of the Civ games, but it seems to me that 5, despite being vastly different as Stevie points out, still managed to stay above the water instead of drowning. If it is easy to mod, people are willing to invest time in it, thereby giving the game its chance to live on.

Heroes 3, 4, 5 are excellent examples of a dedicated modding community. So if a new Heroes game would stay true to its roots, yet innovate as well, ánd allow easy modding...it might find a place closer to its predecessors that had the same thing.
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted October 02, 2015 08:48 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 20:50, 02 Oct 2015.

Stevie, it is good from time to time to question certain things. I would like to ask you, was the winning formula implemented in the last 2 games? If it was, why is everything going to hell then? Were the features properly implemented? If they were properly implemented, who is to be blamed for everything? Also if the answer to these questions is no, what then?

Regarding the thought: "They don't know where they're going with it [...] I think a full back to the drawing board is required for HoMM.", I must ask you again was the winning formula (add new, polish old) implemented properly? Do they know what they are doing? If doctor doesn't know a thing about human body, how is he going to operate? If a game designer, or whoever is in charge of Heroes franchise (the boss, the top one who makes the decisions) does not understand the intricate and delicate mechanics of the TBS game, how can he decide what is good and what is bad for this TYPE of the game? I'm not sure if Erwin/Erwan is the top here, but he mentioned soccer teams, Starcraft, and what else not that is constantly being quoted by Verriker. How can he make a good decision if he mixes game genres and their features because he likes them... It is perfectly fine that he likes what he likes, but those are different things...

Moreover, are we really against innovation? What about various proposals about magic system, skill wheels, and your and Maurice's post about strengthening magic heroes, etc. Were they completely devoid of any innovation? Were you two just babbling: H3, H3, H3, H3, H3, H3, H3, H3, H3...? As far as I noticed, we want things that WORK PROPERLY! If the developer is unable to do that, then, I'll dare to say, yes, stay in the safe zone, but make it good. However, we got no to the stability and got innovation for the innovation's sake... which resulted in H6. I'll not comment on H7 as I'll wait to see what will become out of this game.

I might not remember JJ's posts that you are referring to, but at the moment, I am sure that this mess would have been avoided if the "polish old and (properly) add new" was done from the start. H5 had a bumpy start, but Tote is an excellent game. If the things were continued in that fashion we wouldn't have H6, a game that is currently deemed very bad, despite the fact that some people like it.

EDIT: Stevie, you don't need to answer these questions. They are meant to be thought about, not necessarily replied to...

@Maurice
Wonderful post.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted October 02, 2015 09:36 PM

Dies_Irae said:
Heroes 3, 4, 5 are excellent examples of a dedicated modding community. So if a new Heroes game would stay true to its roots, yet innovate as well, ánd allow easy modding...it might find a place closer to its predecessors that had the same thing.
A large part of the modding of Civ5 comes thanks to its link to Steam. The heroes series will never have that link thanks to uplay.
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 02, 2015 09:46 PM

Personally, I don't care about the game's "potential" and "how it will be" in a few months, because we can't safely assume that Ubisoft will indeed fix everything.

In heroes 6, the desync multiplayer bug is still happening. You just can't play a multiplayer game without crashing. You also can't dive with your griffons when black dragons are around, because the game will crash.

So no. Do not trust Ubisoft's word. Wait and see instead.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 02, 2015 10:47 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 22:50, 02 Oct 2015.

JollyJoker said:
I've said it often enough, and I'll repeat it (and thanks, Stevie, for relating to me here):

A sequel of a game needs a NEW ANGLE.

Humbly, I disagree, and Heroes 2+3 and Civ 2+3+4(+5?) would seem to agree with me.

Salamandre said:
Dies_Irae said:
Why didn't H6 win the praise Civ 5 received? Apparently, doing something completely different can have the desired effect.


Meh, civilization 5 is not a good game, in the sense we are used with civ series. But the civ 5 package, with ModBuddy, Nexus Fire and map editor are on the top of technology at player's nose. Basically you can safely mod every bit and pixel of the game, already 15000 mods out. And now, when you browse them and pick what addresses your annoyances, you have the game of your dreams. This is light years above Heroes editors.

Again, humbly, I disagre. While this is 100 % subjective, for me, Civ 5 is the best - or at least most enjoyable - game of the series, and the first where I actually find the combat system meaningful. I'll go so far as saying that Civ 5 is probably the best game I ever owned. It's far from perfect, but it IS pretty damn good, and like you said, the game has great modability which takes it a long way further than the official version.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 02, 2015 11:07 PM

I said "in the sense we are used with it", which meant huge rate approval. For the first time, the new unit/tile system didn't make at all unanimity and people raged over it, similar to here.

So you have people liking it - you, for example-, then me on the other side, however the exceptional moddability serves both of us, as I can play unlimited units per tile while you enjoy the original. Just imagine an Heroes game where with a simple code you can choose between H4 and H3-H5 system without screwing the game, hero can physically fight or not. Who wouldn't be pleased?
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 02, 2015 11:37 PM

Right now all I'm thinking is that you either set sail with a new vision for the game in mind or you put the series on the shelf. You already have the other games if you ever want to go back and play with your favorite faction or magic system. I'm not dismissing that the series should try keeping its core features in place. All I'm saying is that if your approach is "back to the roots" instead of exploring new ideas and mechanics, you already failed. You cannot reasonably expect to top other games with years of piled content behind them, expansions and UGCs with a single vanilla game. That's just not possible, and not worthy as a main goal to begin with.

At the end of the day, you'll have to ask yourself - Why should I buy this game and not play its predecessor? What does it bring new to the table? If all it brings is a crude flanking system and governors in between an ocean of reused assets and missing features, then I'm better off with the 60€ in my wallet. We're so hellbent on wanting past features in a perfect mix that we're missing the bigger picture - the game is standing still. And the end result is that it fails on both ends. Those who want innovations don't get them and those who want a "best of" don't get it either. And soon enough, everybody loses interest, the game dies, and we're setting sail for Heroes 8 with the same mentality! That's unacceptable.

Now, this is one issue. The other, probably more prevalent, is Ubisoft, or more precisely the M&M team. To me their direction has proven misguided and their design philosophy faulty, and it showed during all these years. Their track record with the series would've been a complete disaster if it weren't for TotE which looking in hindsight appears to be more of a miracle. With that in mind, it doesn't matter which approach they take because they'd manage to screw anything royally given their crass incompetence. So before any changes regarding the approach of the game are discussed, there has to be a major change inside the team first. That's what I sincerely believe.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 02, 2015 11:48 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 23:49, 02 Oct 2015.

Stevie said:
You cannot reasonably expect to top other games with years of piled content behind them, expansions and UGCs with a single vanilla game. That's just not possible, and not worthy as a main goal to begin with.

For most games I would agree, but actually, specifically with Heroes I'm not even sure that's true. Apart from the number of factions - which obviously is something that would have to grow with expansions - there are not a lot of core features that were expanded from H5 Vanilla to TotE, alternative upgrades being the notable exception. As I see it, if you have the vision right, there shouldn't be a lot more work involved in making a new heroes game with a great skill system, a great magic system and great creature abilities, than there is with making one with a crappy skill system, a crappy magic system and crappy creature abilities.

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Ankhes
Ankhes


Hired Hero
posted October 03, 2015 12:46 AM
Edited by Ankhes at 00:50, 03 Oct 2015.

I think the main issue is Ubisoft tbh. Looking at Homm6 and Homm7 they both feel unfinished and rushed as well and low-budgeted on top of that. I think both of them were rushed and forced to release before Christmas where a lot of AAA titles are being released. Both games were full of bugs and felt really underwhelming when it comes to content:
Homm6 only 5 faction - I think Academy was also planned for original release, no promised random map generator and sim turns, not enough adventure map objects.
Homm7 again a lot of features doesn't work as intended, a lot of reused assets - music, units, map objects.

A lot of innovation ideas I think were not bad and if you guys really think about them they could work but they required a lot of polish and we all know how many patches Homm games get on top of rushed release dates(I remember Black Hole and I think Nival mentioning not getting money for patching game post 3rd patch or something).

1. Town conversion - I persoanlly think it was alright idea but required some balancing like some restrictions, prolonging process to x days, increasing resource cost etc.

2. Reducing number of resources - tbh I think most of people hate this idea but they don't really understand how it affects gameplay. If you think about it in previous Homm games all resources were equal in terms of value. The main difference was which faction required which. In Homm6 these dragon crystal or w/e it was called was crucial to all races and personally I think it was fine although it lowered randomness a lot. For example in Homm3 if you were playing Stronghold all you cared about was crystals and Sulfur/Mercury were absolutely useless apart from upgrading mage guild which wasn't really that important anyways.
From the actual gameplay point of view the main difference between 1 and 4 rare resources is increasing randomness(and whether you are a player that like more randomness or not probably would determine how you perceived that change) and making adventure map a bit more rich.

3. Core/Elite/Champion system - not sure what to think about it but the main issue why it didn't work in my opinion was absurd strength/growth ratio of cores compared to elites/champions. Lowering their growth or strengthening elites/champions would likely improve this system. On top of that not very well implemented resurrection system in form of core units/abilities like Regeneration, Life Drain, Reinforcements etc. which allowed to creep without losses so that you were not losing cores throughout the game.

4. Blood/tear system - poorly implemented but interesting idea. The worst part was that I was forcing myself to prolong battles to use passive spells to get more tear reputation etc.

Most of these ideas were not awful but just not polished enough. Maybe they would turn out to be pretty good ones in the end but again I think game was rushed, not enough support post release and then Ubi moved to another Homm game scrapping all of these ideas and implementing new ones instead of trying to build upon past experience.

Another thing which I agree with is that there seems to be lack of coherent idea which way this game should go. I also doubt Ubisoft can make good Homm game because they try to please people. As weird as it sounds I think there is a lot of truth in what JVC said that they just wanted to do game they wanted to play. With Ubisoft we are getting some sort of abomination trying to please everyone but in the end not satisfying anyone.

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted October 03, 2015 04:03 AM

fuChris said:
Thats just the PTSD talking. If the series would take on vastly different game-elements then that would turn it into a completely different experience. The hunger for the Heroes experience that we all so love would however not be satiated.
It would only lead to Ubi sitting on the naming rights and that another studio sometimes years later would make a copy of the game with better polish and us looking back and asking why this wasn't possible back then. And the anwser would be that it was but simply not in Ubi's hands.

Heroes is already a very complex game with multiple layers of strategy involved. The introduction of new elements into the game without polishing the already existing ones will always end up in an unrefined game.

Barely any new gameconcept since H3 has made itself a staple of the franchise since its switch to 3D but that is the developers fault and not ours.
H4 brought with it a new, expanded but still reasonable stat/skill system as well as an anwser to the problem of the mass spells with it's new approach to the mage guild amongst other things. None of it made it to the sequels. The governor system only made it into the game this time because the magic skills took up too much of the skilltrees and they needed to add something not magic based IMO.
H5 added an expanded skilltree, faction specific skillsets, the initiave system and a much faster multiplayer. All of these improvements have been severly dumbed down or simply forgotten since. The skilltree is a joke. The faction specific skills are too dominant and force upon you a certain playstyle. Sim turns will maybe sometimes later make it into the game. Maybe. Two expansions later probably.
H6 added a hero upgrade system, town convertion and area of controll. While not being quite satisfied with it the hero upgrade was something the community has been asking for since H4. Instead of further developing it it has simply been dropped. The townconcertion has been asked for since H3WoG. Instead of balancing it it has also been dropped. Area controll that nobody really asked for but didn't really bother anyone but was allowed to stay simply to streamline the game.

There were plenty of game elements that could have well become staple elements of the franchise by now if only they got the polish they deserved.
Instead we got flanking which is totally useless since you can't controll how to face your troops. Lovely.

And they still have the face to say they don't have any vision how the game can evolve. Blegh...


THIS^
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 03, 2015 08:30 AM

alcibiades said:
JollyJoker said:
I've said it often enough, and I'll repeat it (and thanks, Stevie, for relating to me here):

A sequel of a game needs a NEW ANGLE.

Humbly, I disagree, and Heroes 2+3 and Civ 2+3+4(+5?) would seem to agree with me.

In fact they agree with me. Heroes 2 has secondary skills, mana-based spells, and unit upgrades. That's a lot of new angle. Heroes 3's new angle is a major content boost (an angle that is basically "forgotten" today", because it would be impossible) and also a major overhaul of everything, tactical combat getting ground-breaking changes. In many ways, Heroes 3 has been following a certain direction to the end.
Civ 5 is RADICALLY different from Civ 4 - at least my wife says that. In many ways Civ 5 does what the critics now say Heroes 7 does NOT. Civ 4 could be seen as the pinnacle of modability while Civ 5 wants to simplify things to haul in new gamers that are not familiar with the game. I'm not very much in Civ anymore, but the way I remember it, Civ 2 finally did MP play, after that a lot of stuff came out, since there was property and ownerships struggles, leading to activision doing something - I know, however, that Civ 2 Test of time was brilliant insofar that it massively broadened the platform insofar that modding started and the last thing they did was offering different settings - space, dinosaurs, magic: brilliant. If you compare Civ and Civ 2 Test of Time - worlds apart.
Civ 3 is HoMM's 5: new beginning, everything back to normal, and in many ways Civ 3 is just the Civ that was "it". Civ 4 is "modder's game". Civ 5 simplification.

Now - for Homm it's easy to see that 5 is like 3, minus the editor.

So what is 6? Not a modder's game. FIVE factions only? Obviously some new mechanics, but the one thing that was bad in 5 - the editor? RMG, SimTurns?

And what's 7?

For me, it's simple: you EITHER look at 5 and say - hey, that game is cool, but the editor sucks and Sim Turns are meh. Also, we maybe could use more spells and heroes and moddability ... so you try to take 5 make more or less a copy with minor corrections, different graphics, perfect the game with an easy-to-use editor and put out 2 years of additional content.

OR you say - let's try a completely different angle: but then this new angle must be in the centre and everything else must be tweaked to fit. If you get THAT to work, you will have a lot to do to eventually bring everything up to standard which may take some time, but still.

Problem is, 6 and 7 do nothing like that. 6 tries a lot of new things, but it's difficult to see what the new angle is supposed to be: a non-random skill system? That certainly failed. The tier system? Suboptimal. And so on, with the flaw that the game feels incomplete and lacking in content.

7 on the other hand announces "best of" - but isn't, if you think about it. "Best of" would have been the variety of H5s skill system with the variety of the magic system of either 3 or 4, a better battlefield, more than 2 creature sizes with working battle geometry (and another page of stuff more) - and frankly, that game it is definitely not (and cannot even grow to become).

Then what IS 7? I doubt anyone knows - I don't see a concept or a vision; magic looks like an afterthought, skill pizza looks like an ad-hoc solution to a problem no one saw, balance is non-existent, bugs are plenty and vivid.

Now. When I say A NEW ANGLE that means, that the game must have a new aspect that no other HoMM game delivers and that makes it worthwhile to play the game. It does NOT mean, the game has to Disciples of Might and Magic now or Civilizations of Ashan or Age of Might and Magic or whatever - it just DOES mean that there has to be something new.

EXAMPLE: You might say: What if all RACIAL specials were in fact HERO CLASS specials, so that you had the factions with all their units on one hand and the Heroes the other side, every Hero Class having their own special abilities and stuff?
You'd then need a concept - and immediately see a problem with the Necro and the Inferno, that is, with Demons and Undead. After 10 minutes of thought, you'd conclude that this was an unsuitable angle for the game - or you'd have to change the game completely insofar, that "undead" and "demon" would indeed become traits, the respective heroes would apply to the units. A Necro hero playing Haven town would just play an UNDEAD haven town, (units slightly zombie-like looking), while the Inferno heroes would demonize their towns - and at this point you'd say, nice idea, but it won't work because it destroys factions in the HoMM sense and it's doubtfully that we can pull this.
So back to square 1.

But it's either a new angle or perfection of what is deemed the best game. If they wanted to make a Best Of they could have tried a remake of HoMM 5 with more hero classes per faction, a superb editor, a richer magic system and a more flexible duel editor, and if they had managed that, everyone would have been happy enough.

However, that would have pushed the new angle to Heroes 8 when it would have been a necessity.

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted October 03, 2015 11:03 AM

the m&m series and heroes 1 through 3 got progressively better as new world computing honed their skills and their understanding of where the franchise could go.  heroes 4 and the rest of the franchise suffered as the company fell.
heroes 5 through tribes of the east got progressively better as nival honed their skills and their understanding of where the series could go.
heroes 6 was overly ambitious and suffered as black hole fell.
m&m 10 is very good, and heroes 7 will most likely get progressively better as limbic hones their skills and their understanding of where the franchise can go.  imo since nwc, thus far they have gotten the most right right out of the gate; especially with the mod tools.

ubi is slowly but surely learning how to navigate this extremely complex vehicle, all we really need is a consistent driver (dev).  lets focus our energy where it will be most effective in achieving our desired goals, and just help limbic as best we can.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 03, 2015 11:13 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 11:15, 03 Oct 2015.

JollyJoker said:
In fact they agree with me. Heroes 2 has secondary skills, mana-based spells, and unit upgrades. That's a lot of new angle. Heroes 3's new angle is a major content boost (an angle that is basically "forgotten" today", because it would be impossible) and also a major overhaul of everything, tactical combat getting ground-breaking changes. In many ways, Heroes 3 has been following a certain direction to the end.

Well then we agree but just call things by different names. I wouldn't call H2 and H3 "new angles" because they were almost 100 % conservative: Pretty much everything (and I mean literally everything) that was in the previous game was in the subsequent one, only certain elements were expanded (like how H3 added spell schools to the magic system). That is for me not a "new angle", but as long as we can agree that the "new angle" can be "keeping what's there but expanding on the aspects that didn't work completely" then we are in full agreement.

JollyJoker said:
Civ 5 is RADICALLY different from Civ 4 - at least my wife says that. In many ways Civ 5 does what the critics now say Heroes 7 does NOT. Civ 4 could be seen as the pinnacle of modability while Civ 5 wants to simplify things to haul in new gamers that are not familiar with the game.

It is very different when it comes to combat (and only that), which was why I placed it with a question mark. I don't really buy the premise that Civ 5 "simplified" things, however. Yes, it went away with stacks of doom, and good riddance I say, never has there been a more futile combat system imo. In old civ games, it pretty much just came down to who could pump out the larger amount of units, in Civ 5, you can beat a larger army by applying suitable tactical approach to combat, that's for me not dumbing down. Plus, there are other aspects to Civ than just the combat system. Imo. things like the economic system (trade routes), religion system and culture system are much more sophisticated in Civ 5 than they were in Civ 4.

I understand that the people who used to play Civ singly with the purpose of high-level domination challenges against the AI are disappointed with Civ 5 because the AI handles the new combat system very poorly, and that is obviously (one of) the main challenge for Civ 6 to target. I acknowledge that if you play Civ solely with the purpose of optimizing your win time, then Civ 5 (singleplayer) fails because it's extremely easy to steamroll the AI in domination - but that is just one style of gameplay, and in pretty much every other area (culture, economy, science) Civ 5 performs better than its predecessors imo.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 03, 2015 12:42 PM

The important thing for the devs is to keep the essence. You have to be able to strip down the game to the bare bones - which is HoMM 1 -, look at what was groundbreaking in the additions of the following games and then try and isolate the "molten core" of the game. Then you add the "crust" around the core making it "habitable".
It's a bit like this game where you have a tower and try to pull out as many blocks as possible without breaking the thing.

Same thing here. There is a difference between keeping the amount of variety content and always improving AND increasing on it (best example: Factions) and stripping the game of mechanisms and elements and replacing them: (example: creature spellbooks - replaced by active creature abilities).

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 03, 2015 12:46 PM
Edited by Stevie at 12:47, 03 Oct 2015.

To me Heroes 7 appears to be a Heroes 6 in core design trying to play like Heroes 5. It stops somewhere in the middle and satisfies no one. There is no feeling of advancement or true innovation, nor a feeling of grounded foundation. It's an amalgam of features that maybe sounded good in theory but ended up terribly executed. I would say that it sets standards to a new low, even Heroes 6 was better. In fact, I'd be surprised to find out that Heroes 7 had half the budget of Heroes 6. From what Limbic_chosker said, I doubt it:



To me the most disappointing right now in terms of potential / achievement ratio is the combat system. We have not advanced at all here. Battles become tedious and boring very fast. Battlefields are not impressive at all and they're very limited. We're still at squares for goodness' sake. Flanking could've been amazing if implemented right and not slapped on the creatures in hope that it would work. And that's it, all their attempt at innovation! We have no interlinking effects from the adventure map (terrain, weather effects, etc.), we have no interactive objects on the battlefield (climbing trees to shoot better), creatures have the same starting place every single time on the same 12x10 and variations of map layouts. It becomes so tiresome to see the same thing repeating itself over and over again that you start wishing it ended faster.

At least Civ5 did something, even if a minority of people disliked it. Combats shifted focus from amassing an army in favor of positional strategy. And while it's true that the AI can't keep up with that because of its limitations, multiplayer skyrocketed! In a sense, Heroes is exactly the same, because your strategy is amassing an army on your main to meet your enemy's main in combat, and whoever wins has the game in the bag. And what can you do about it after that? Nothing. You might as well sit and watch how you can't catch up to the enemy's advantage now. What if you had emergency reserves to lean on? What if there was an army cap linked to your hero's progression and expanded with a Leadership skill? Or SOMETHING!

But no, we have to reiterate every single game the same boring systems because there was still untapped potential left to be explored. I'm saying it, with this mentality we're missing the bigger picture. These pipe dreams are keeping the game at a standstill. Then it gets badly reviewed, sales drop, it dies and then we're on a hunt for a scapegoat. Aren't you guys tired of seeing the same scenario all over again? Heroes 7 is the conclusive proof that this approach does not work anymore!
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 03, 2015 01:00 PM

Stevie said:
To me Heroes 7 appears to be a Heroes 6 in core design trying to play like Heroes 5.

I agree.

Stevie said:
Aren't you guys tired of seeing the same scenario all over again? Heroes 7 is the conclusive proof that this approach does not work anymore!

What are you talking about? Heroes 7 is the conclusive proof Ubisoft will probably never ever get the essence of HOMM is all I see.
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted October 03, 2015 01:23 PM

:B!tch slaps Stevie:

So, it is our fault that both H7 and H6 are bad? Stevie, you've just disappointed me.

It doesn't matter if the game is totally "new" (H4, H6) or totally "old" (H1, H2. H3, H5), if the mechanics are badly implemented the game will suck! The features of the game have to go along and to make a cohesive whole. Example: H7 added flanking. Some consider it bad, others see it as as a good feature. BUT! On its own, some members here have said that such mechanic is incomplete and that it needs attack of opportunity (or something like that) in order to be complete. Now, let's see, did we wanted flanking? I'm not sure that anyone was vocal about that. It was developer's choice. Did they implement incomplete mechanic, according to some, the answer is yes. So, let us see where is our fault in that? Do the same questioning for the rest of the game mechanics present in H7 on your own...

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 03, 2015 01:37 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
So, it is our fault that both H7 and H6 are bad? Stevie, you've just disappointed me.


Absolutely not, and I've said it before, the fault lies chiefly with the M&M team who developed the games. They hold the reins of the franchise and they're ultimately responsible for what happens with it. However, we as a community are responsible for promoting a sense of direction by voicing our wants, and when all that resumes to a reiteration of the same old same old at the expense of innovation and different features, how are we ever going to move forward?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted October 03, 2015 01:51 PM

hey Stevie just go play some age of wonders 3 for a bit or something, itll be ok.
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