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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Talking about Christianity
Thread: Talking about Christianity This thread is 54 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 28 29 30 31 32 ... 40 50 54 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2016 07:24 PM

Well, Markkur, there is my problem again. Christians will be full of NC Christ when it comes to words, and full of OC God Jahwe when it comes to deeds, and I don't think there has ever been a Christian society in the sense of Jesus' two laws.

Now, you COULD argue that it's left to the individual how to handle this - but here I face the problem that Christianity doesn't stop at the individual level of faith and instead tries to make everyone adhere to their ideas of what is right and wrong, collectively.

Which invariably means, even if I had faith in Jesus, I'd have no positive feelings for "Christianity".

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 25, 2016 07:44 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 19:58, 25 Jul 2016.

markkur said:
OLD is the key word here.

If one actually follows Christ, God is much different. When he spoke of the Father, he spoke of "reflecting the Father" and what Jesus said and did...reflected our new Faith. He healed people and what was the condition for the person every time? "Your Faith has healed you." He went Spiritually head-to-head with those of dead religion wrapped in priestly-robes for earthly gain and in the end Christ laid down his life and that is the true reflection of God and Love. Christ was freedom for the masses and still is.

Christ gave us only 2 Laws and if you will see the depth of those two laws,(the 2 absorb the OLD 10 and universally a lot more to come) you will realize there is no need for other "natural laws" between people.

Christianity is about the New Covenant and the New Testament and about a historical Jesus. So if you want talk Christianity I will continue.
So god changed? I thought he said he would never do that? You cannot say he did not do the things he did in the old testament. So, he decided one day to stop being a genocidal maniac and become loving and kind?

Even then lets take Christ's message of love and kindness. You realize over half of the population is going straight to hell for the "crime" of unbelief. A crime created by this loving god. This wonderful lord created these people and engineered their ignorance so he could then create a punishment for said ignorance. Now these people will wallow in fire and torment forever through no fault of their own. God does not view life as sacred, he views them as tools so he can collect praise, that is it. Naturally, he demands this for everything, of course.
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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 25, 2016 07:53 PM
Edited by markkur at 19:56, 25 Jul 2016.

JollyJoker said:
Well, Markkur, there is my problem again. Christians will be full of NC Christ when it comes to words, and full of OC God Jahwe when it comes to deeds, and I don't think there has ever been a Christian society in the sense of Jesus' two laws.

Now, you COULD argue that it's left to the individual how to handle this - but here I face the problem that Christianity doesn't stop at the individual level of faith and instead tries to make everyone adhere to their ideas of what is right and wrong, collectively.


I agree and should know that (I just made a very long post about it and how it happened) and I have said Christ's simple message was high-jacked by nations. And trust me I'm far more upset by it than you can be right now.

A conflict can arise when I am forced to do something against my belief. Iow, if secular society decides it aok to ban Christian freedom of speech but allows everyone else no matter their beliefs to run on an on which whatever they choose to say, however volatile and often in a crude and attacking ways? Why should I not have the right to speak-out for myself and family too?

A modern secular Government needs to protect Everyone, or in the end it will protect no one.

Christ said; "The rain falls on the just and unjust alike" and I am about individuals seeing and understanding that. The world has its problems and always will but I can make a difference...right where I am. I am NOT interested in taking away anyone's rights as long as it does no harm to others.

Our Witness is NOT our words but our Actions. If someone comes to Christ it will be the Holy Spirit moving in that one life that did it not any amount of brow-beating on my part. I am responsible for my life, not the decisions of others.

Setting aside the subject of Religion entirely.

In my life - on important topics; I can think what I have said...really made an impact but in the end it made no impact.

And yet, sometimes I hardly said a thing and it was unknown to me that it had a major impact. That's the value of planning and dictating to others. We all need to be our LOVING selves.
 

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 25, 2016 07:57 PM

Gryphs said:
Even then lets take Christ's message of love and kindness. You realize over half of the population is going straight to hell for the "crime" of unbelief. A crime created by this loving god. This wonderful lord created these people and engineered their ignorance so he could then create a punishment for said ignorance. Now these people will wallow in fire and torment forever through no fault of their own. God does not view life as sacred he views them as tools so he can collect praise, which, he demands for everything by the way.


If that is what you believe than all I can do is wish you the best of whatever it is you seek.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 25, 2016 08:05 PM

frostysh even if something is displayed as "Holy and good" does not mean it has any relationship with the original idea. Is that what Jesus teached? Not every "church" serve God as any human can make it opposite of faith, not to speak coverments what they have made. They are just paws you can use for your own ends. Now, how could we know what is "true" christianity and what is not? Look at the fruits! New Testament is enough to identify falseform of christianity.

Richard Wurmbrand is a one man who was prisoned in time both German army and Soviet Union. He did not kneel to communist so that was reason enough to jail him. Even today, world is not free. Just because someone uses fancy robes and a cloth, does not mean he serves God rather than men. It's always been like that, world is full of rotten men. Look at politics, look at lawyers who don't care what is true, just winning, now you would think these are mens and womens that serve the people. (Side note: I don't mean by this that only one particular chirstian church or group is the only one correct, rather saying corruption is everywhere.)

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 25, 2016 08:17 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 20:18, 25 Jul 2016.

markkur said:
If that is what you believe than all I can do is wish you the best of whatever it is you seek.
I cannot say I am surprised that this is your response, but why argue for an unborn fetus then? If it is already going straight to hell or heaven, why not just cut out the pointless middle part? Aren't we doing it a favor from that point of view?
____________
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2016 08:18 PM

Markkur, my idea of the Christian religion is exclusively teaching by example, not going around and tell people what to do.

Nor, trying to take an influence on general society as a pressure group. Strictly spoken, this world is our punishment anyway, and in the end everyone is responsible for themselves only.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't speak out or should keep quiet, but you don't need to speak on behalf of Jesus or God, and you don't need to tell people what Jesus or god may want or not want.

I mean, isn't THAT a central part of what this should all be about? Matthew 7:3 and all?

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 25, 2016 08:44 PM
Edited by markkur at 20:44, 25 Jul 2016.

JollyJoker said:
Markkur, my idea of the Christian religion is exclusively teaching by example, not going around and tell people what to do.

Nor, trying to take an influence on general society as a pressure group. Strictly spoken, this world is our punishment anyway, and in the end everyone is responsible for themselves only.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't speak out or should keep quiet, but you don't need to speak on behalf of Jesus or God, and you don't need to tell people what Jesus or god may want or not want.

I mean, isn't THAT a central part of what this should all be about? Matthew 7:3 and all?


We are in agreement JJ. I can add a verse to that from the Lord about being born-again. John: {CH3, verse 8} The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone born of the Spirit".

This is where I have learned that I am not God and that I was given the charge of "living the word" and not...how to say?...making forced converts. If I live a Spirit of life that is attractive to someone? Then they might ask me; What gives? And only then I can respond but even then I will direct my answers towards Christ alone and what he taught and not my own fabrications. It will either register or not but that is not my purpose. Life/God teaches, we either listen or don't. Freedom means freedom.


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markkur
markkur


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Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 25, 2016 11:31 PM
Edited by markkur at 23:33, 25 Jul 2016.

Gryphs said:
I cannot say I am surprised that this is your response, but why argue for an unborn fetus then? If it is already going straight to hell or heaven, why not just cut out the pointless middle part? Aren't we doing it a favor from that point of view?


C'mon, the middle part is your Earthly life which as you know is all that you have to see. Life beyond, if it does exist, is beyond now.

"Little Faith in Christ will take your soul to Heaven, great Faith in Christ will bring Heaven to your soul."

And the unborn fetus? Remove any notion from the argument of any Religion whatsoever...other than real time life. By far and away, if the woman and no other person harms that fetus by words or deeds leading to harm = one day you or someone will have a son or daughter sitting next to you or they will. You either care about that NOW or you don't.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 26, 2016 02:26 AM
Edited by frostysh at 03:18, 26 Jul 2016.

Baronus -

1) - Nah.. I am joking about "Drink my flesh, and eat my blood" (I am sorry, this is my troll of inside), but if you want to find a Historical Articles about the nature and causes of the mass Cannibalism during the "Crusade" , perhaps you must search something like this:

Jay Rubenstein the: “Cannibals and Crusaders” French Historical Studies 31 (2008): 525-52

This particular dude is looks weird.. and perhaps hi article is just a propaganda, but hell his clues is good and it is a much more sane than yours, Baronus.

2) I have do not remember the mass Cannibalism in which has been involved i.e. Islam dudes, or a Buddhists - this is a 'feture' only Christians, so I make a hypothesis that it is somehow conncted to the actually Christianity and Holy Bible itself.

3) About the idiotic resource, I have warned the all readers of my posts, that this resources is look a VERY strange for me, and I have no time (perhaps , because I am too lazy) to observe this stuff and search the evidence of propaganda there.

4) I doubts, that I have found the truth about Christianity at the main Holy Vatican internet resource... The Church though the History, usually was, hm.. not so objective.. Especially about their own past. This is obviously.  

5) Nationalism = Communism for me, so do not worry I am not anti-Christian Lenin Atheist not or a servant of a darn Holy Nation itself... The both political ideologies is a nonsense for me, and this is more suddenly, that I have realized this on my own experience.  

6) Still I do not like Christianity, because of almost the same life experience.. . About Islam, I do not want even talk.

7) Yep, Christian, actually do not like the slavery form the Ancient Time, because of thyself usually was the slaves I mean .
But your 'Pope's Deny' of slavery somehow worked a pretty bad.. in the 99% Christianity density countries...

Quote:

Between the 1500s and the 1800s, about 10 million Africans were captured and carried to the New World. It is estimated that about 1.5 million died en route. Most of these slaves were bound for Central and South America. Only 400,000 Africans were sent to the British colonies in North America.

After 1400, when the Portuguese turned to West Africa to enslave its people for its sugar plantations in the Azores Islands, they found slavery well entrenched. Muslim traders and powerful coastal African kingdoms held Africans in bondage and sold them as chattel to remote places throughout Africa and the Mediterranean. On the heels of Portuguese exploration, traders extended their reach into Africa, took control of the slave trade, and as a result this source of enslaved human labor expanded sugar production in the Madeira Islands, the Canary Islands, and the Azores throughout the fifteenth century. The slavery that the Portuguese practiced on these islands was different than the slavery that prevailed in Africa.  In Africa, slavery was not necessarily heritable or permanent. It was not based on race, but rather war or tribal conflict. The Portuguese, as did all Europeans, changed the practice of African slavery dramatically.


Slavery in the Colonies

Wow, racial discrimination and slavery... The standard habbits of Christianity society before Humanism arise, wow and What about the charity ?

8) Thanx for an advice, but I'll better be on ma' way, and I will read what I want, and then I will make my choice and decisions .

Homer171 - Do not worry, I have a somekind of good immunity against nationalism/communism and stuff, I have suffer a bad experience with it, and a hell even the Christianity! is much more good for me than this ridiculous nonsense of a 'leftists and rightist'

For now I must something about the psychedelic origins of religious things, I feel this explanation is much more sane for myself than the miracles and the great water-fluid and the Noah and the stuff...
I have heard about this explanations before, but I am a very lazy to find some information about all this things..

Anyway - Psychedelic Mushroom + The group of peoples around the fire + this peoples were religious and highly mythological (as the whole society was in the past..) = = = > Let's a Lazarus resurrection begins!


Quote:
Mushroom stones that carry an effigy, like the ones depicted above of a human (god?), bird, jaguar, toad and other animals,occurred earlier in time and have been mostly found at the higher elevations of the Guatemala Highlands. This is an area of woodlands and pine forests where the Amanita muscaria mushroom grows in abundance. It  is more than likely, therefore, that this mushroom was the inspiration or model for the earliest mushroom stone carvings. The Amanita muscaria mushroom contains muscarine and ibotenic acid, the substances that cause the powerful psychoactive effects.

Mushrooms Encoded in Christian Art

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 26, 2016 02:27 AM
Edited by frostysh at 09:20, 01 Aug 2016.

Raaaaaaaaagh I hate this internet connection, I am sorry for a duplicate posting... :/

EDITED:

My further exploration of Christianity leads me to the a movie, but suddenly I cannot download it, please someone can download and look it and then type Is this film cool or it is a 'BBC/Hollywood-nonsense', then I will decide to suffer a struggles to download this film, or not.



But for the banner itself - WHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Religious

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 18, 2016 06:12 PM
Edited by markkur at 18:14, 18 Sep 2016.

Sorry for the delay between the first part part 1 2nd postand the rest that will follow. I've had more health issues (as if I need more pain) and have had some tests and an small operation which makes for short work time at a keyboard.

“Christ versus the Modern Church”
{part 2 of 5 - Serving Two Masters}

Concluding Part-1, I ended with the following paragraph;

Today, after the unfortunate but necessary Protestant Reformation, what happened? All kinds of separate denominations were created and that has just meant all kinds of men creating DIVISIONS of Christ’s One Church.

The purpose of this writing is; first, to highlight the usurpation of the message of Christ and why it historically happened, and the nature of those purposes and the resulting ills that have dogged the church since. Secondly, to confirm that the heart, mind and soul of a committed believer should be based on the New Testament, as the Lord intended.

Briefly before continuing, Christ was born in a stable and raised in the poor workman’s town of Nazareth. The Gospels also tell us he was a carpenter and therefore he had a hard-working non-status position within society. The last three years of his life were a Ministry fraught with danger and his compensation was that he received hospitality from the masses. We have not a moment in his life of…regal living.

Yet, who betrayed Him and why? Judas, he was one of the original twelve disciples but once he realized that Jesus was not creating Judas’ dream of Christ reigning as a powerful earthly-King in the fashion of a Solomon to take revenge on Rome, Judas made a deal with the Sanhedrin to betray Jesus for the reward of coin.{Matt:26 14-25}

To understand how the simple life that Christ led did not become the standard of the Christian Church and instead, in many ways, the leaders of the Church adopted the regal life and power of Kings and nobles, we need to continue to  investigate how history unfolded.

 

“Imperial Purple Robes”


I said in part-one, Constantine took the early Christian Church and made it his Imperial tool. He, like many men to follow him wanted absolute “compliance to his rule” and truly not “unity of belief.” Faith is not born by forced belief. That is compulsion & compliance and not conversion.

Through history, rulers have leaned heavily on the State-Clergy to elicit no dissension, no debates and no doubts; i.e. Charlemagne went so far as to slaughter anyone that did not yield to his mandate - Holy Roman emperor? NO! The kings/rulers from Constantine onwards in time demanded obedience to their thrones.

Another very important aspect of this new State-Church was that it had to be regal, like the Emperor. Thus, out went the early image of a frugal Jesus or the Disciples working in a “house-to-house Church” and back came the Royal veneer of formal Judaism’s Sanhedrin, adorned with the status of a Royal court and seats of honor.

Before I can move-on from Constantine’s take-over, in what condition was the early Church? Let’s look at the early Church and what happened in the Roman Empire.

The Roman road-system was indeed a useful tool for the early disciples as it was for the Roman army and trade too but I think the spread of Christianity to Roman roads is greatly exaggerated when we make the effort to see the entire view of what happened to the Church, inside the Roman empire.

Until Constantine, most Caesars were hostile to the new Faith. Tacitus, the famous Roman historian, wrote about it in a manner that clearly showed his disgust for Christianity.

The Caesars had a serious reason to not tolerate Christians, because in the Roman empire, a Caesar ruled as God and this required every citizen’s submission to the ruler/rulers of Rome above all other belief; allegiance to the throne was foremost and never to be contested. All previous religions except for the “practicing” Jews (still a needed distinction today) were easy to allow as part of the empire because they posed no perceived threat to the imperial throne. However, like Judaism before, followers of the new faith could only worship one God and not many Gods. Christians could not worship Caesar, nor any earthly king. This fact led to the majority of the imperial reigns slaughtering the Christians for this perceived disobedience.

During the reigns of different Caesars, a few did not declare a formal edict to find and kill Christians but none the less, these rulers did not support the new Faith, it was more “out of sight - out of mind”. However, even then, when Christians did appear before the Roman court and would not bow before the throne, the sentence was death. Also within these more peaceful times and the constant legal climate, a successful Roman citizen that admitted their Faith, no matter their status, could be denounced and all their wealth confiscated. These attitudes made for an Empire that was still no safe place, even under times of reduced seek and destroy edicts.

During this long era of persecution and killing of Christians, which spanned the Caesars from Augustus to Constantine, what was the condition of the early Church? Instead of a vanquished faith,  the new Church was thriving in communities across the empire. So much so, that the Emperor saw its rise as a new tool for his political ambition of a reunited realm under his single rule. History has proven; persecution strengthens the Church, while prosperity weakens the Church.

{“No one can serve two Masters…You cannot serve God & Mammon” Matt: 6:24}

When Constantine assumed control of the Church he created a problem that can be still found in many Christians today. The original teaching to “serve God first and then be obedient to the State” was changed to “serve State & Church.” This resulted in “a single person within the State” also having the power to represent the Church.

Further, know what Christ said when some Pharisees sought to trap him and make Him an enemy of Caesar. “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.” {Matt:22: 15-22}  As you can read, Christ called for a separation of serving God and serving the State as two functions...not one.
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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 18, 2016 06:26 PM

“Christ versus the Modern Church”
{part 3 of 5 - Unrest & War}


The Reformation

Many men knew something was very wrong in Rome and much as been written about the abuses of the Church and how the Printing-press brought those sins out in the open with Scripture. There is a lot to read about this era but I will only mention a few lives that led to the rebirth of the Church.

* Jan Hus - Considered the first Church reformer, Hus lived before most men later involved in the Reformation. Hus was a key predecessor to Protestantism, and his teachings had a strong influence on the states of Western Europe and, more than a century later, on Martin Luther. Hus was burned at the stake in 1415 for heresy against the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

* John Wycliffe - Wycliffe aimed to do away with the existing hierarchy and replace it with the "poor priests" who lived in poverty, were bound by no vows, had received no formal consecration, and preached the Gospel to the people. The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings. In 1428, by order, of Pope Martin V, Wycliffe's corpse was exhumed and burned and the ashes cast into the River Swift.

* Martin Luther - Once again, there is a lot to read but I will only highlight a couple examples taken from Luther’s 95 thesis.
- In theses 35 and 36, he attacks the idea that an indulgence makes repentance unnecessary. This leads to the conclusion that the truly repentant person, who alone may benefit from the indulgence, has already received the only benefit the indulgence provides. Truly repentant Christians have already been forgiven of the penalty as well as the guilt of sin.
- Luther lists several criticisms advanced by laypeople against indulgences in theses 81–91. He presents these as difficult objections his congregants are bringing rather than his own criticisms. How should he answer those who ask why the pope does not simply empty purgatory if it is in his power?

* William Tyndale - Tyndale denounced the practice of prayer to saints. He taught justification by faith, the return of Christ, and mortality of the soul but the chief reason his death was sought was because Tyndale believed the Bible should be translated into English and placed in the hands of the common people and did so, despite the threats of the Catholic Church. Henry VIII became Tyndale’s most serious threat and the English King hired Henry Phillips who feigned friendship to betray Tyndale to the imperial authorities in Antwerp in 1535. He was tried on a charge of heresy in 1536 and was condemned to be burned to death. Tyndale’s final words were reported as "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes."


Protestantism

This new beginning should have ushered the rebirth of Christ’s one-Church but Historical authors have recorded much and instead of uniting the Church it was divided into several sects and then would later further splinter into many denominations. With Scripture in hand for the first time in the 1500s, what caused such separation? The simple answer is, the root of the cause first appeared when Constantine’s Church and State were one in the same.

During the evolution of the Church in the Middle-ages, what happened was a Church so closely aligned to the thrones of kingdoms that sometimes it’s hard to tell the offices apart. As late as Henry VIII, we see that Cardinal Thomas Wolsey is richer than the King and has built a magnificent “house of state” called Hampton Court, which was eventually taken by Henry when Wolsey fell out of favor and later died in the Tower.

Because the historical record is so large I need to keep narrow limits for the purpose of my writings.

From Constantine onwards and on past Henry the VIII we see nations and religion sewn together. For my purposes, I will focus only on Britain. I will briefly point out some conflicts and leave it to the reader to further pursue one or each at their discretion.

The English Crown’s Succession
* Henry, in the interest of his dynasty, defied the Pope and made himself a pope.
* Young Edward, taught by Protestant clergy, made war on Catholics.
* Bloody Mary, wanted England and Rome reunited and killed Protestants.
* Elizabeth, supposedly tries for a middle-ground but it was still her Church.
* James comes from Scotland and wants to make Britain but gives up.
* Charles decides to make England and Scotland one nation but it ends in civil-war.
* Cromwell comes to power and pushes for a Protestant England.
* Richard Cromwell is eventually replaced by the recall of Charles II and the Crown.
What we see during this long period of turmoil is not only the conflict of religion but the conflict of Nations because by this time in history we have both united. I.e. In Ireland, the Irish were Catholic and treated as barbarians and did not have the vote on their own lands. Northern Ireland was a Protestant (English) settlement that caused conflict until modern times.

America

People that sought freedom from Religious oppression first sought it in Europe but they same civil strife plagued the whole Continent. Eventually the sanctuary seekers sought out the new world with the hopes of worshipping as they believed. However, when these settlers made their new communities in North America, they wanted that community to worship as they did, so numerous separate settlements occurred.

Once the United States came into being, the founding fathers knew this history and no doubt saw the seeds of separation already growing in America. Therefore to make one nation united and not divided, the freedom for the individual to follow their conscience was vital to the success of the fledgling country. Freedom and protection for all members of society was the cornerstone and will always need be.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2016 02:04 AM

Good historical info Markkur. Words: "unfortunate but necessary" strikes me hard, as that what it really was.

Not expert on Catholic Reformation but they reformed as well, tried to end corruption inside their own church. One, can only imagine in what shape christinity would be in today if there would not have been the separation. (Not that it's in ideal shape today tough)

Lot of sad history, where "faith" was only political tool. Either you supported Protestant ally, country, region, you name it or Catholic side.

History teaches us from it's mistakes, hope we are smart enough to take the lessons in need.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 19, 2016 03:12 PM

Homer171 said:
Good historical info Markkur. Words: "unfortunate but necessary" strikes me hard, as that what it really was.


Once I learned this it bothered me a great deal too because the Fact is Luther, without question the most impacting of the reformers, did not have any initial plans of dividing the Church. The 95 Thesis were nailed to Church door because in a University town that was how you challenged a debate. "The split" was brought about because of Luther at first being ignored, then reprimanded, and therefore all of the points about scripture along with them and then becoming the target of a bonfire.

Homer171 said:
Not expert on Catholic Reformation but they reformed as well, tried to end corruption inside their own church. One, can only imagine in what shape christinity would be in today if there would not have been the separation. (Not that it's in ideal shape today tough)


Of course they did, they now HAD too.

Homer171 said:
Lot of sad history, where "faith" was only political tool. Either you supported Protestant ally, country, region, you name it or Catholic side.


The number of times Christ or His church has been used for gain-Mammon over God, is impossible to count and <imo> one of the most damaging sins that has ever occurred on this planet. Point-blank...that is the Anti-Christ in all of his/her forms.

"Be ye sober and vigilant because your adversary the Devil walks about as a lion seeking whom he may devour."

Homer171 said:
History teaches us from it's mistakes, hope we are smart enough to take the lessons in need.


On personal levels this has happened and continues to happen because there are hearts that belong to Christ and minds that obey the New Testament. It is the modern Church that is in perilous shape and I am slowly getting to...the Why.

I'm taking my time at setting the foundation of my perspective to ensure that no matter how young or ignorant a person about Christ, they will be able to follow the logic of my argument and most importantly, verify with their own effort - at the very least...to a large measure.
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"Do your own research"

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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 24, 2016 11:04 PM
Edited by markkur at 23:07, 24 Sep 2016.

“Christ versus the Modern Church”
{part 4 of 5 - “Wolves in Sheep’s clothing“}

In Matt: 5:17 Jesus said; “I did not come to abolish the Scriptures but to fulfill them.”

<Imo> many people in the Church have not understood Christ’s statement, including myself in my early years. The confusion begins with the word scriptures because of course he is referencing the Old Testament, the old covenant. Further, Him saying I have not abolished them seems to suggest they are still in effect. But is that true?

For if the Old Testament is still valid for Christians then who needs Christ? I say Christians need Christ not the O.T.

Let’s look at this in a modern-example because I believe it applies in a similar fashion. I.e. Peter and Paul make a pact, a covenant between them. Peters tells Paul that if he does certain things under the contractual agreement that he will support Paul (reward with mammon of some sort) until a certain date. At that time both parties will review the results of the 1st agreement and may or may not create a new contract.

When Jesus said he fulfilled the first spiritual-contract between God and Man, he meant the old contract was fulfilled - to abolish it would have denied that the 1st Covenant was in place and fulfilled by Him to make the New Covenant possible.

Anyone who doubts the above needs to read the Gospels because it is very clear. Jesus saved a harlot from stoning, he chastises men and their flippant use of Divorce, He challenged that Man has work or situations that must be met on the Sabbath and several other issues. Probably the most obvious, is the fact; Jewish leaders wanted Christ dead.

An Unfortunate Outgrowth.

Because fairly early in the Church and for much of its history people could not read the New Testament, they were at the mercy of either a State-Church or a State-like Church…Rome.

Because people could not read the whole ministry and message of Christ they were told what the Church wanted to emphasize. (I.e Henry VIII doing away with his wife) I’ll pause here; how many people today think Christ makes a great inspiration for a Nation's war? I hope no person here does.

You see, if Jesus gave his life instead of killing and he commanded his followers to be meek, the Church bypassed the heart of the Christian Church and went back to the Old Testament to mine anything they could to support their desires and turned their back on Christ.

Note: When someone today is called by their nation to defend their nation, it is up to the person to decide what Christ would have them do. Many Christians throughout history have understood the need to defend life & family but to suggest this means aggression is in blatant self-deception. When Christ taught “do not kill”, “turn the other cheek” or “forgive trespasses” he was talking about ordinary everyday life - not the vested-interests of Nations. Btw, many Christians decided to serve in different wars as medics in an effort to save lives and not destroy lives. Only each person can decide such a question for themselves.  

Sermons vs. Being

Through the passage of centuries where has this errant version of the Christian Church landed?

Because Christ’s church became more entertainment than service much of it is very ill.

I don’t know what goes on overseas but my experience in the U.S. since 1980 is not favorable. Early on I did the same as most around me and “shopped for a Church”, a home were I felt comfortable. Egad how selfish I was. You see, that is NOT service! That is making “being served correctly” (personal wants) of first importance.

For the sake of your time, here is a short list of immaturities.
a. The Pastor/Priest sermons are boring.
b. We should come as we are - we should dress to the max.
c. The music is too old - the music is too new.
d. I feel I belong - I don’t feel I belong.

A. You are to serve Christ and the fact is the Christian should not be totally-dependent on any one person no matter who they are. If you are in the word daily and practicing the Scriptures, you should not have to be dependent on a pastor/priest to get whatever it is you need and especially at the moment you demand it!
B. Your mode of dress does not make you holy, your conduct does.
C. A community-church is not a private dance-hall. If young and old would make people first then common-ground could be reached instead of division.
D. The world today is an "Emotional-Button"...leave it at home. You are going to have good days, bad days and in-between days and that is normal life. Furthermore, if a person actually thinks they are right and those around them wrong, does it make any sense to leave and find a spot where others are <ahem> “right” with you? Salt does not work that way...does it?  

Unfortunately many Churches have sunk to new lows. In America we have what is called the preachers of “The Prosperity Gospel” and “Name it-Claim it”. These devil-led pastors often claim to be Godlike and dupe followers that have zero knowledge of Christ in believing they are Christians. They stand together, moan and hand-wave to the skies on some silly emotional bent while their communities slowly die because there are NOT “salt of the earth“...only selfish babies in adult skins. Christianity is sacrifice and is not about earthly gain. Never has been...never will be.

The health of the greater American church is so bad that years ago, Asian Christian Missionaries correctly saw the U.S. as an important ministry! For a decades now we've had churches on nearly every corner and yet today many folks don’t SERVE anything greater than themselves?

Before closing in front of Part-5, even within so much sickness and deception, the Spirit of Christ changes lives and people learn the truth and get away from these evil men and women and try to make a difference right where they live and that is NOT the nearest bookseller brandishing the latest books from the Christ-peddlers so they can build a 2nd, 3rd or 4th private castle.

Matt 7:15 {“Beware of the false Prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”}
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"Do your own research"

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Celfious
Celfious


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posted September 26, 2016 01:30 AM
Edited by Celfious at 01:34, 26 Sep 2016.

Jesus taught "Do not kill?"?

In any case My answer to the question is no.. I can't find it again though lol I think you asked sor thing like does any of us think Jesus would be good to use to promote killing. No I don't.

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frostysh
frostysh


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WHY?
posted September 26, 2016 08:43 AM
Edited by frostysh at 08:49, 26 Sep 2016.

My opinion is: The Christianity was a fairy-tale for an adults, with a lot of elements included such as a life Philosophy and the Civil/Moral-Laws for a peoples, in general it was the attempt to make an order in the society.
The Christianity left an important legacy beside with a horrible events and a horrible examples of how it is can be used (such as Crusaders and so-called 3rd Raich), but in the modern society the Christianity is an obsolete and in future it's importance will only get low.The same with Islam.

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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 26, 2016 10:50 PM

Celfious said:
Jesus taught "Do not kill?"?

"Those that live by the sword - die by the sword." Doesn't sound like the Lord was an crusader-advocate of killing does it?

Just my thoughts but I would add I doubt he only meant a physical death. I've known family and friends that were/are ex-vets and all suffered "inside" in normal life. It is hard to be at peace when you have images in the mind like so many carried back from war and today people carry with them horrible pictures in their mind - say in the Middle-East...as I type.

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 26, 2016 11:05 PM

markkur said:
Just my thoughts but I would add I doubt he only meant a physical death. I've known family and friends that were/are ex-vets and all suffered "inside" in normal life. It is hard to be at peace when you have images in the mind like so many carried back from war and today people carry with them horrible pictures in their mind - say in the Middle-East...as I type.

That's rather a modern phenomenon though, as wars became more technological, more threatening to civilians and less romanticized in general, "the horror" became more signified. An ancient warrior would easily brag about the heads he bashed, in joy, just like medieval rulers happily exposed heads on sticks and crowds cheered during decapitations. There are still people like that but they are considered sadistic nowadays, it's not the norm anymore. Some of them even enlist in the military to get a chance to kill legally.
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