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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted September 27, 2016 12:12 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 00:12, 27 Sep 2016.
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markkur said:
Doesn't sound like the Lord was an crusader-advocate of killing does it?
Nah, he is more of the watch as people suffer forever kind of sadist.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 27, 2016 12:27 AM |
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Waves of prosperity theology has landed to the shores of Finland also. I can't understand how can somebody twist the gosbel to money milking business, if the person has "same values" as I have learned from the bible, how can it be used for their own ends?
I don't judge any particular movement but people should realize, it's not about us, it's not what we can archive, what we can gain from this. It's about Jesus and how He comes flesh in our lifes. Old rugged cross, there have I met Him, there is my strenght, there should my gaze hold.
How easy it goes there, when we look at ourself how: bad, good, worthless, special, stupid, smart, troubled, carefree, poor or rich we are. Rather than just coming back to the roots. All that I have is from Him and all that I need, is to fix my gaze on Him, to whom has saved me from my deadly deeds to live by the grace.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted September 27, 2016 10:48 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 10:49, 27 Sep 2016.
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The Christian Theology is a 90% of nonsense, the false, the nothin more just a some text on the paper.
I have tested many things such as Christian religion on myself, and I can say from my own life experience - it is nothin' more than a fable.
Quote:
"Do not suppose the statements of the prophets to be true; they are all fabrications. Men lived comfortably till they came and spoiled life. The sacred books are only such a set of idle tales as any age could have and indeed did actually produce" - Al-Ma'arre
The 11th Century poet who pissed off al-Qaeda
Of course I am disagree with the most of the text (i.e. the life in the Arab World sux even before Islam) of this guy that living a million years ago, but in the general he is true. The Christianity itself in example is a nothin' more just a fable, a fairy tale with no clues in the real life!
You do not need any Holy Saint Jesus, holy saint nation, or the holy saint world revolution to be a good man, to bring a justice, and so on. All this things is an obsolete 
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 27, 2016 04:07 PM |
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artu said:
That's rather a modern phenomenon though...
Nah, have to disagree mostly. It's true we have even more horror now but to assume that all people were nothing like people today I think is a hugely false.
The strategy through all of history was/is to "intimidate" and be as brutal/savage as possible thus cowing your enemy. Today? Think "Shock and Awe". Having your daughter crushed by rock, gutted by a spear, sliced by sword, or separated by rocket is no different to the parent looking on. Their daughter was brutally killed.
In antiquity in Greece you were not supposed to kiss in public but on the other hand if you went to war it was a good idea to exterminate the populous, so they could not do a revenge-slaughter, because no survivors meant...that conflict was over. Revenge is still alive and thriving today and it can turn most people into the same old justifiably-caused brutal-savage of any and all time.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 27, 2016 04:10 PM |
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Gryphs said:
he is more of the watch as people suffer forever kind of sadist.
I doubt you want intervention. You are your own master.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 27, 2016 05:29 PM |
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Well, I was rather talking about the brutilizers rather than the brutilized. I'm sure soldiers of the past were not robots either but having "too many things in your conscience" and not being able to cope with it is mostly a modern thing. Pre-industrial people were much more plain and simple about it. Also keep in mind, in those times it was also much more common to believe that the ones you killed were lesser humans for being barbarians/heretics/heathens etc. and they deserved their fate anyway.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 27, 2016 06:00 PM |
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Sure times have changed but it's not that long when nazi persecutions rampaged. Hitler said: “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”
As much, I wish to help refugees in our country, it will has it's down sides. I can't say the natives are very pleased of the situation and it's the least what I desire but I fear something might gonna happen. People are ignorant, always have and always will be. In this day and era you could think: "Nah, we are beyond rocks and stones age" but when you look deeper you see humans are very much the same they have always been.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 27, 2016 06:13 PM |
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Yes but in the beginning, one of the reasons they had concentration camps was that mass-shooting civilians caused either severe depression or complete reckless behavior among German soldiers. Where as in medieval times, it was quite normative to kill everybody inside a castle during a siege, if they decide not to surrender. It was "how it's done."
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted September 27, 2016 07:11 PM |
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Regarding war and violence.
In our lives today we don't go out in the country prepared for an ambush now do we? And our last military engagements have been conducted sorely by state armies, so the common man can only watch on TV.
There is also that back then you'd go into a blood bath, the only noise being the clanking of metal and the screams of agony.
Now, you hear: bomb shells going off, mortars firing away, machine guns firing constantly, the "wailing" of bombers, sirens and screams of agony.
I'd say that a disembodied head is far less frightening than somebody blown to bits.
Sure, when a city was conquered there were fires, plundering and raping. Now, you'd wait until an army would do those things while being showered with bombs. You can't even exit your home, in your city far from the frontlines without the fear of being blown to bits.
War is now more horrifying than it was in the past. Add nukes now that we're in the 21st century.
Part of the reason I went into this tangent was to also mention an important religious icon of my birthplace: At the old gates of Catania there is an icon of Christ, the interesting bit of the story is that after a bombing in WW2 the glass was shattered, and a single piece of glass went right through the head of Christ, among the thorns of his crown.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 27, 2016 07:54 PM |
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Neraus said:
...and a single piece of glass went right through the head of Christ, among the thorns of his crown.
Very fitting symbolism.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dr Os Guinness, "Survival of the Fastest"
Time
Os, a member of the famous "Stout"-making-family, talks about Time and the ways that Man has viewed time thru history. He also talks about many other connected-changes to Humanity that must be recognized.
Skip to 5:30 for the Os start.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 27, 2016 09:37 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:37, 27 Sep 2016.
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Neraus said:
I'd say that a disembodied head is far less frightening than somebody blown to bits.
That's debatable. The latter is much faster and if you're close enough, you are gone in a second anyway. But that was not my point. Even the most pro-war, hawkish person won't "cheer" for such a thing now, he can say something like "well, war is ugly but such things are inevitable sometimes" but he won't glorify the death itself. He won't advertise it. Think of ISIS broadcasting decapitations, it is considered a barbaric act, because such an act is considered primitive. But in the medieval times, it was the norm to exhibit such violence because such violence had much less of an alienation effect. It was intimidating but it wasn't shameful.
As I said earlier, part of the reason war is less romanticized these days is indeed because modern times upped the scale of terror, especially about unwanted civilian causalities. But I think part of it is also because it's less manageable to convince all the majority about how "the enemy" deserves such violence to begin with. We perceive humanity in a more universal fashion now and that's quite a new thing.
Markkur said:
Dr Os Guinness, "Survival of the Fastest"
Time
Os, a member of the famous "Stout"-making-family, talks about Time and the ways that Man has viewed time thru history. He also talks about many other connected-changes to Humanity that must be recognized.
Some parts of this was really interesting indeed. How we perceive time through out history, the difference between the circular perception of time in agricultural societies and linear perception of it in industrial ones was something I really dug and read a lot about back in the day. If I'm not mistaken, I wrote something about this here in HC, earlier too, about how it changes the way people look at the elderly. Experienced and respectable in agricultural societies, outdated and irrelevant in industrial ones. It's not so black and white, of course, but that distinction is quite thematic to a degree.
I mostly agree on the criticism that efficiency replaced sensational experience and that's an issue. In fact, just the other day, we had a little chat with Nearus about how you people work like crazy.
To stay interested, I had to ignore the parts where he speaks about how sea turtles landing to lay eggs with perfect timing is the Lord's miracle and stuff like that, though. They manage that by following certain water currents which are periodic, just like birds detecting their route by magnetic fields. There is no miracle, if the conditions change, they are lost. I remember reading the story of a flock of birds, there is an island they migrate to in a certain time of the year. However, then, an earthquake sinks the island. They keep flying to the same exact point, start driving circles in the air and drop dead in the ocean out of exhaustion at some point. Nature doesn't work like a clock, it's quite chaotic and destructive in the larger scale.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted September 27, 2016 09:51 PM |
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artu said:
Nature doesn't work like a clock, it's quite chaotic and destructive in the larger scale.
It seems it's like a clock at times, but that is the reason why I don't agree nor promote the idea that a natural process is alone proof of intelligent design.
Coincidences may as well be coincidences, I'm willing to concede that.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 27, 2016 09:57 PM |
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Well, it's not a coincidence either, if you evolve to find your way by using magnetic fields, is it a coincidence that you do find it? Such a specie may not have evolved if things went differently, that part is coincidence if that's what you mean.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted September 27, 2016 10:04 PM |
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I was more referring to claims such as the classic: "Bananas are made in the best shape to be taken by a human hand".
I'd say though, that in our first observation of such a phenomenon we'd find it a coincidence that an animal would travel along magnetic fields, before discovering that it actually can sense magnetism.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 27, 2016 10:08 PM |
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Neraus said:
"Bananas are made in the best shape to be taken by a human hand"
Lol. That's the first time I hear this one. Well, we must once again conclude that "the apple" is Satan's work then. 
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted September 27, 2016 10:14 PM |
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I am honestly surprised you have not heard of that brilliant claim before. You really are missing out on some good laughs.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted September 28, 2016 02:59 AM |
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markkur said:
Dr Os Guinness, "Survival of the Fastest"
Time
Os, a member of the famous "Stout"-making-family, talks about Time and the ways that Man has viewed time thru history. He also talks about many other connected-changes to Humanity that must be recognized.
Skip to 5:30 for the Os start.
good watch, thanks 
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 28, 2016 07:49 AM |
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Liked the Dr Os Guinness, "Survival of the Fastest" time speach. Questions at the end where hardly relative, so did not watch them all the way. Guinness has many toughfull points, I have amazed by the short sightness of the common man today as well.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 28, 2016 04:56 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 17:01, 28 Sep 2016.
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@ Artu
My first "inkling" and it honestly was only an inkling, about "the clock" had two connecting parts. The first was I lived 30 minutes from work and raced for a time to "punch the clock" inserting a long thin name-card into a fat-grey metal-box that time-stamped the card to prove the time of my name-cards's arrival. (finally had to leave 30 minutes earlier so I would never be late due to traffic or get a speeding ticket) Because of this I got to watch most of the men racing against that damned clock. and also never got tickets.<L>
The second part was the birth of my daughter. Both combined to tell me I would miss most of my daughter's growing-up and there wasn't anything I could do about it. I worked overtime and Saturdays for many years and my immediate awareness of course proved 100% correct.
The fact is my children and I lived in two different worlds and while I could review "the highlights" of their daily-lives, ( I still was not there) they knew little of mine. <imvho> Separate experiences/lives within a family is I think far more destructive than most any of us consider.
You do not have to be a Christian (and I was not at the time) to know that something is naturally very wrong about the way modern man lives.
Neglecting care of the aged and the fact that people are not present when their body is - both testify....something is very wrong.
Btw, what apple? NRN
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 28, 2016 05:11 PM |
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“Christ versus the Modern Church”
{part 5 of 5 - Christ’s One Church}
This 5-part writing started with one question that I kept asking myself for many years; “Why are people outside the church today so often venomous and combative towards Christianity?”
I’ve thought about this a great deal over thirty-years of my life and I have come to believe in one main cause…the Christian Church itself. Now of course there are some nasty spirited people around the world that they themselves would be the source of their wrath but those sorts are found in every topic on human-existence, politics for example. However, I believe I have experienced many things and have witnessed many causes, through others, over the years that make me put the final blame chiefly on the Church.
The picture that I have modestly tried to paint, for it would take volumes of books to detail it out, is of a Church-derailed very early in its history and the resulting civil-war within itself, because after all…some people read and follow Christ.
Before I continue, I have used a very broad brush and treated the greater church as one single entity, as if I were speaking only about one person. If you think about it, it makes much sense to do this because who is every Christian church supposed to follow? Christ of course, so therefore in that most important sense I have focused where I needed to and not allowed man’s eventual misguided-divisions to enter.
I’m going keep it simple because the Lord did the same. He did not mandate for people to wear holy garbs, gather to a set program at a set location to sing approved hymns and listen to licensed men, follow inherited pulpits nor chant to themselves and imagine utopia or take a whip and lash their backs for enlightenment. But what did He want in his followers? How about; “the word written on their hearts”. What did Jesus call the religious leaders of his day? “whited sepulcurs” meaning a container to hold a long dead body.
Christ wanted compassion written on people’s heart’s…a way of living life. Not carrying cold stone tablets and projecting cold stone hearts dying by the letter of the law. He wanted people freed from the invisible chains of the law and freely loving and caring for those around them. He said at different times: “I desire Compassion and not a sacrifice.”
For the first few years of my Christian life I thought I was unfortunate to have came from an Atheist background without any knowledge of anything “churchy”. I had no idea at all what Easter was, except for noticing families all dressed up to go somewhere while I waited for an egg hunt. So when I got into the word and began learning I had no interference at all with the words of Christ. No Baptist-aunt, Catholic-uncle telling what I had to believe, scripture could speak clearly. Christ has ever had the reigns of my heart from the first moment of my salvation.
I’m inserting something I wrote long ago that gives a very quick glimpse about my first contact with an organized church denomination.
Quote:
I was baptized by submersion in a Disciples of Christ Church. Our Pastor wore cowboy boots in the pulpit, unseen by the congregation. His simple Texas faith was a refuge for me. His wife taught the Sunday school class I attended. At meetings I listened to debates about budgets and how money should be spent. Initially the business of Church was interesting, but soon it became alarming. The simple faith that I learned in the Bible was becoming complicated. Religious conflict entered my world, when the church members divided over whether to retain my first Pastor. What went on between board members I don’t know, but the impact of the rift was obvious. Sad and angry faces abounded everywhere. Sunday school became difficult as the Pastor’s wife showed strain from frustration.
One day from the pulpit the Pastor announced they were leaving and heading home to Texas. He gave a glimpse into his reasons for resigning by holding up one leg wearing a cowboy boot. The great pious debate was what footwear was appropriate behind the pulpit. Most were serious about this topic while I was stunned. I left that church wondering what I had witnessed. I felt ill and alone.
I can tell you now that I was ill because what I had learned in the Gospels held half-sway at my first church. Further, during the coming years I found more or less the same errors in about a half dozen more churches of various denominations. Speaking of denominations and adding names; only baptism not Baptists is found in the N.T. and every division in the modern church today is the work of man…not Christ. You are either Christian or part of a sect.
It’s been my life-experience that man can ruin any good institution, no matter the purpose. The sins of the world are legion in the public square. Political offices around the world reek today of greed and power, institutions of all sorts are untrustworthy i.e. the media, charity-groups and banking to name only a few. However, Christ’s One Church was not supposed to be a member of that sick clan. I think the reasons it sometimes is, are very obvious - when people serve themselves they do not merit the name of Christian.
I’ll expose no more sins found in the church because I don’t need too. The modern world has shouted from the rooftops every committed sin so every breathing person likely already knows about many corrupt imposters.
With the exception of predatory sexual sin against trusting souls my chief anger rests with the value of buildings and careers over people and their daily-life needs. I.e imagine if I could gather all the money that was used throughout history to build cathedrals, churches, abbeys, palaces, offices, headquarters, upkeep and utilities for all buildings, even a “city” and lifestyles far to numerous to count - imagine how many people could have been fed and clothed, or how much money could have been spent on community needs far above “a place to meet”. We were not suppose to make a new world and separate ourselves but be in this world, not be of this world and try to make life better for others sharing love, compassion and help. Had we have followed Christ as we were meant too, it’s very doubtful that people (other than nut-jobs) would deal out so much contempt. Had we always been the “salt of the earth” the benefit of our Faith would be obvious to sensible people that cared about the welfare of community.
I will end with asking the reader the question; What should a New Testament church be? I know the answer because it is as easy as making breakfast but I believe anyone professing to follow Christ should read the N.T. and write down the requirements and see what Jesus and the Disciples taught. Your spiritual-life will always depend on you.
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"Do your own research"
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This thread is pages long: 
