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| Thread: Jedi rule of no attachment + having kids? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted December 30, 2015 12:22 PM |
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And to me Anakin was not "evil", all he did was to try and save his wife through the Dark Side, since the jedi could not do that, and when that failed, he truly became Darth Vader.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 30, 2015 02:27 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
And to me Anakin was not "evil", all he did was to try and save his wife through the Dark Side
By slaughtering all those younglings during the assault on the temple? He denied them all a chance at life, a chance to contribute to the galaxy, just because he felt "justified" in destroying the Jedi order in order to save his wife?
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...since the jedi could not do that, and when that failed, he truly became Darth Vader
Which is what the Emperor made him believe, after saving him on Mustafar.
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Elvin
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posted December 30, 2015 02:37 PM |
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Maurice said:
Drakon-Deus said:
And to me Anakin was not "evil", all he did was to try and save his wife through the Dark Side
By slaughtering all those younglings during the assault on the temple? He denied them all a chance at life, a chance to contribute to the galaxy, just because he felt "justified" in destroying the Jedi order in order to save his wife?
Grey with a touch of blood red 
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted December 30, 2015 04:06 PM |
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Anakin did all that because he wanted to save the woman he loved, Padme' , and not because he had a personal vendetta against all Jedi.
And his best friend and "brother" Kenobi cared more about Jedi poiltics and "democracy" than him. Another mistake by the jedi cult. 
As I said I like the Skywalkers and Qui Gon best. And Palpatine is still an awesome villain.
Darth Plagueis could save people from death. Sidious could only prolong their lives artificially. And as far as I know, Qui-Gon is the one who revealed to Yoda the way to appear in that "ghost form".
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Maurice
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posted December 30, 2015 04:31 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 16:31, 30 Dec 2015.
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Drakon-Deus said:
And his best friend and "brother" Kenobi cared more about Jedi poiltics and "democracy" than him. Another mistake by the jedi cult.
Actually, no. He time and again warned Anakin of the "easy" paths and the duties of Jedi. Anakin simply didn't understand it, he didn't feel it. As he said himself in Episode II: "I know I should be better than this." He admits to Padme that he is failing as a Jedi. He doesn't understand or accept that the attachments he felt - for his mother and for Padme - lead him down the path to the Dark Side, all the while ignoring what Obi Wan told him, because he felt Obi Wan only tried to prevent him from having 'rightful' attachments; he failed to see where it lead him.
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And as far as I know, Qui-Gon is the one who revealed to Yoda the way to appear in that "ghost form".
Pretty much confirmed both in the Clone Wars animation series near the end as well as the end of Episode III where Yoda shares this information with Obi Wan.
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Blizzardboy
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posted December 30, 2015 04:33 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
And to me Anakin was not "evil", all he did was to try and save his wife through the Dark Side, since the jedi could not do that, and when that failed, he truly became Darth Vader.
School shooting in an elementary school with a lightsaber.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 30, 2015 05:25 PM |
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Obi Wan "did what he must" like what, leaving his best friend disfigured? The jedi sure take that "no attachment" thing to the... death.
So, between the two cults, I still prefer Sith if I were to pick a side. And I'm happy that neither exist on our planet. 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
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posted December 30, 2015 05:42 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Obi Wan "did what he must" like what, leaving his best friend disfigured? The jedi sure take that "no attachment" thing to the... death.
Jedi aren't supposed to kill the defenseless. Since a person with only one limb with whole of his body burned can't pose too much threat to anyone Ben left him. Besides, if he truly meant to kill him, he would simply do that - Vader at that moment was unable to do anything.
Additionally, Obi-wan tried to bring Anakin back to the Light Side, but since Mace Windu, Padme and even him, his best friend, weren't able to do that, was there any point to take him back? There was no Anakin in him anymore, only Vader, thus he was left there.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 30, 2015 05:48 PM |
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And thus, I dislike the Jedi cult. This thread only reinforced how I felt about them.
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Elvin
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posted December 30, 2015 05:58 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
School shooting in an elementary school with a lightsaber.
Which feels even worse. Chopping kids to pieces ffs, go die in a fire Anakin. Oh wait.
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Elvin
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posted December 30, 2015 06:06 PM |
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Maurice said:
Actually, no. He time and again warned Anakin of the "easy" paths and the duties of Jedi. Anakin simply didn't understand it, he didn't feel it. As he said himself in Episode II: "I know I should be better than this." He admits to Padme that he is failing as a Jedi. He doesn't understand or accept that the attachments he felt - for his mother and for Padme - lead him down the path to the Dark Side, all the while ignoring what Obi Wan told him, because he felt Obi Wan only tried to prevent him from having 'rightful' attachments; he failed to see where it lead him.
Or maybe he was just a rebelious impertinent stupid teen. Wah wah the jedi are jealous and are holding me back wah. It was sad to see him go mad with grief after losing his mother but in episode 3 he lost whatever sympathy I had for him. It all felt like a childish outburst like he'd gotten grounded or something.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 30, 2015 06:35 PM |
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That is where the "prequels" really failed... while I don't think they're the worst ever, I can only watch them if I then watch the original three.
Instead of giving us the old "chosen one" routine, they could've made some better films with Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader.
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Elvin
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posted December 30, 2015 08:20 PM |
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Too much background noise for one.
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Neraus
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posted December 30, 2015 10:25 PM |
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Maurice said:
Drakon-Deus said:
And to me Anakin was not "evil", all he did was to try and save his wife through the Dark Side
By slaughtering all those younglings during the assault on the temple? He denied them all a chance at life, a chance to contribute to the galaxy, just because he felt "justified" in destroying the Jedi order in order to save his wife?
Quote:
...since the jedi could not do that, and when that failed, he truly became Darth Vader
Which is what the Emperor made him believe, after saving him on Mustafar.
You don't know how some events can strengthen the resolve of somebody.
After all, Anakin was mostly influenced by his various strays in the path of the jedi due to Palpatine's influence, if you think about it, it harkens back when he killed Count Dooku, he didn't want to finish him, but rather bring him to justice, and yet, that hilarious "Dew it" started the descent. He simply wanted to disarm Windu, little did he know that Palpatine would've killed him.
After all of that Palpatine's influence overcame him, and that's why he justified the killing of children.
I call it being deathly misguided, not necessarily evil.
Let's remember that Anakin deeply trusted Palpatine, for some reason...
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Gryphs
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posted December 30, 2015 10:33 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 22:55, 30 Dec 2015.
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Neraus said:
He simply wanted to disarm Windu, little did he know that Palpatine would've killed him.
I doubt that, I mean he cut Windu's hand off and he walked in on them as Palpatine was blasting lighting he knew exactly what would happen. I imagine he also would have known the punishment for attacking the second in command of the Jedi.
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Neraus
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posted December 30, 2015 10:58 PM |
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I don't know, in that scene it seems to me that he wanted to do the Jedi way of not killing and giving a fair trial, then disarmed Windu because he was acting against that principle.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 30, 2015 11:03 PM |
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Even if that is true he would have known Palpatine would take advantage of any weakness Windu showed. Also after he cuts his hand off he makes no attempt to save him.
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted December 30, 2015 11:18 PM |
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That was because Anakin felt mistreated by the jedi, and the chancellor always looked out for him and told him the story of Darth Plagueis. It's all in the movie...
Anakin made his choice. To serve Palpatine instead of the Jedi.
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artu
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posted December 30, 2015 11:53 PM |
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Edited by artu at 23:57, 30 Dec 2015.
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As it has already been pointed out, Star Wars is not exactly Karamazov Brothers when it comes to character depth and sophisticated, multi-dimensional motivations. Mostly, the good is plain good and the bad is plain bad. That being said, just like in real life, in any decent or even semi-decent fiction, "the villains" will also have humanistic motivations behind their actions. So, suggesting a character is not bad because "all he wanted was to..." is kind of a moot point. If you dig hard enough, you can empathize with any character, maybe with the exception of some very hardcore sociopaths. Nobody wakes up and starts the day by saying "oh, how I love to do evil, let me just destroy the worlds of these good people just for the sake of it" unless a) it's a comedy which is making fun of the very notion of evil such as Adams Family or... well, "Dr. Evil" of Austin Powers etc. or b) it's an extremely poor-quality propaganda piece.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 31, 2015 01:06 AM |
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Yes,asnd why I entered this specific Star Wars talk is because I do not think the Jedi in the prequels were quite the "good guys", at least not how they were in the original films .
In the original films, it was pretty simple with the evil dark side and Empire and the good guys were well-rounded too, and those films worked better actually, on all levels. But I think just about every fan feels that way.
Edit: "evil" villains were to be found all the time in the comic books, and in the comic book films made up to date. There is something appealing about the hero that defeats the villain, old fashioned way.
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