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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Tazar's Mathematics - in case you're wondering
Thread: Tazar's Mathematics - in case you're wondering
keldorn
keldorn


Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
posted January 06, 2016 03:34 PM
Edited by keldorn at 16:05, 06 Jan 2016.

Tazar's Mathematics - in case you're wondering

Hello guys!

I was interested to make some statistics about Tazar, so I thought why not share it with you, perhaps some of you are also interested in the details. Now I am aware that most of you are famailiar with this, still, there might be a few people who has misconceptions about Tazar, so let's jump in.

1. Introduction to Tazar

As we know, Tazar is the Fortress might hero (Beastmaster) with the Armorer speciality. The description of the Armorer speciality says: "Receives a 5% per level bonus to armorer skill percentage." The key concept here is the skill percentage part. If we take expert Armorer (which reduces the damage takne by your troops by 15%), that doesn't mean that after level 2 it will be -20% and after level 3, -25% etc. This is the wrong way to see it. It will increase the skill percentage by +5%, so we need to take the 5% of the 15%, which is +0,75% per level.

2. Calculations

So, let's say we want to answer the following problem: At what level will Tazar's troops recieve half damage? This means we need -50% damage from the Armorer skill. the expert Armorer gives us -15%, and we get an extra -0,75% per level, so all in all, we need to solve the

50 = 15 + n*0,75

equation. The result is n=46.666..., so that means that after level 47, Tazar will recieve half damage compared to a hero with no Armorer. Note that this doesn't work cumulatively, that is, the bonus is always constant, unlike bank loans and interest rates, which accumulate. For example if you put 10,000 dollars in the bank for 8% interest, you'll have 10,800 after the first year, and that new value will recieve the +8% next year (for a total of 11,664 dollars instead of 11,600). Armorer will ALWAYS get +0.75%, no matter what's your current value.

3. Tests and experiments

To make sure my results are correct, I quickly constructed a map to test the theory. I put down 2 heroes, one of them was Cyra, with no Armorer, and Tazar. I gave them both 99,999,999 experience, which got them up to level 59. I did the calculations for Tazar, and I got -59,25% damage from the Armorer skill. (By the way, level 60 would have given exactly -60%, but this was the maximum XP that the map maker allowed. I guess I could have put down a pandora's box, but I didn't think of that when doing the experiment.)

The problem with the experiment was that the primary skills are distriduted randomly (in conjunction with a hero's affinity to the certain skills), at the beginning of the map. And as we know, defense skill also reduces damage, so I had to make sure Cyra and Tazar have the same defense skill. So, I put down all the artifacts that give defence skill, plus the components of the angelic alliance, next to Cyra. That way, I could choose the correct artifacts to bring up Cyra's defense to whatever Tazar's defense happens to be.

Also it is important to choose angels as your opponents, because most of the monsters have a damage range, but angels don't: they always deal the same damage to you. I used 1 troll as my own army, because they might withstand the attack of the angels, after which they regenerate. So there we go. I launched the map, Tazar got 22 defense, Cyra got 13, so I picked up the +4 shield and the Sword of Justice (+5 to all skills) with Cyra and attacked. The angel did 38 damage. I then attacked with Tazar, and the angel did 15 damage. So, you can now see that 15 is about 39% of the 38, meaning the damage reduction was -61%. The results will never be exactly precise, after all, the angels can't inflict  15.875 damage (fraction values are always rounded down). You can perhaps try to get better results if you use higher HP units in your own army, and more angels/archamgels as the enemy. That way you can work with bigger numbers and thus get more accurate results.

4. Some interesting facts

a) The change of Tazar's Armorer skill bonuses as he levels up is shown on the following chart:



b) It might be interesting for you to know that when I fought with Cyra, the angel's attack plus the retaliation killed my troll before they could regenerate. So therefore, I had to use the tactic of defending with them instead of attacking the angels, so therefore they didn't retaliate. But when they hit me, the troll retaliated and then regenerated. I killed the angel just by defending and retaliating. Not the case with Tazar, as the troll in this case managed to withstand the angel's attack and retaliation too, so I didn't need to defend every turn, making it possible to kill the angel twice as fast. This might have practical relevance, I leave that one for you to think about

Thanks for your attention, have a nice day.
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PlokiteWolf
PlokiteWolf


Hired Hero
posted January 06, 2016 04:11 PM
Edited by PlokiteWolf at 16:11, 06 Jan 2016.

The chart doesn't seem to load in your post.


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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 06, 2016 04:35 PM

keldorn said:
So therefore, I had to use the tactic of defending with them instead of attacking the angels, ...


Keep in mind that the defense action raises the defense value of the defender by a certain amount.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2016 04:46 PM

Wait a minute. I always tough Logistic, Necromancy, Offence and Armor specialist work the same: +5% as basic, +10% as advance and +15% as expert skill level. Basically +15% bonus to your favorite skill, now your Hero level has nothing to do whit it (creature specialist are different).

That can't be right. Or did i miss you'r point in the begin whit?
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

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keldorn
keldorn


Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
posted January 06, 2016 04:52 PM

Homer171 said:
Wait a minute. I always tough Logistic, Necromancy, Offence and Armor specialist work the same: +5% as basic, +10% as advance and +15% as expert skill level. Basically +15% bonus to your favorite skill, now your Hero level has nothing to do whit it (creature specialist are different).

That can't be right. Or did i miss you'r point in the begin whit?


Don't confuse the expert skills with the speciality. The expert skill will always give you +15% bonus. But, if you have a hero with the same speciality, the skill's effect will increase by +0.75% per level. This works for every secondary skill specialists (e.g. Kyrre with logistics, Sandro with sorcery or Vidomina with necromancy.) Other heroes, with no speciality, will stay on +15% no matter what their level is.
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RoseKavalier
RoseKavalier


Admirable
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2016 04:52 PM

The % is a bonus using Hero level, not skill level.

ex. The higher you level Gunnar, the more movement he will have.
With 2,000 base movement and expert logistics, each new level adds 2,000*0.3*0.05 = 30 movement/level

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2016 05:32 PM

IT'S ALL TRUE! HOW AIM NOT KNOWN THIS BEFORE?

I run test of my own and wow! Hey, best way to test it give 99999999 exp. Gives 59lv, now watch what Att, Defs it gives you. Take tests, open edit and give 0 exp but the same primary stat you had in first test. Results are mindblowing (don't forget to give expert skill tough) my single Dragon Fly got 2 damage from every attack War Unicorns 70def level 59 Tazar when level 0 Tazar, expert armour and 70 def, Dragon Flyes took 5 damage from War Unicorns! Same formula whit Crag.

Started a map whit Kyrre lv0 exp Log, 2406 move points, when level 59 Kyrre starts it was like 3580 or something!

Good to learn something new from a game you already tough you know everything

Thanks
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

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