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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: AI of HOMM 3 revealed
Thread: AI of HOMM 3 revealed This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 27, 2016 09:53 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:51, 27 Jan 2016.

AI of HOMM 3 revealed

I have played this game versus ai, on impossible for many years and by now I know almost exactly what the ai will do.
In the adventure map it plays reasonably well, flags as much as possible, get as many resources and stuff as possible. Attack if you are stronger, run away if you are weaker.
In combat the ai is bad however.
Here is how a typical fight versus ai would go. First use it's toughest stack to destroy something weak, preferably your First Aid tent as it won't retaliate. Then your shooters and guys with no retaliation can make short work of it.
If it absolutely must attack something alive it will always go for your weakest unit, why care about your Black Dragons when it can go for your Troglodytes right?...
Then it simply loves Blind, so this it will cast nearly every single turn. That is if it had any mana from the start of course.
As soon as the ai discovers "oops I can't win this battle" it will fire a damaging spell and retreat. Maybe it will buy back the hero or maybe you can buy their level 20 hero with 20 artifacts later as it decided it was'nt important anyway.
When facing scouts they'll typically make a hit and run and retreat and loose whatever troops they are with.
If the ai manages to get a big army it does'nt mean it's with a good hero, sometimes you can defeat armies 2 or 3 times the size of yours, bacause you have a good hero and they don't.

If you have any stories about how stoopid (yes, stoopid) the ai can be, please share them with us here.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 27, 2016 10:55 AM

I thought I knew almost all about H3 AI until Biobob made his maps which kept me stuck for a whole week at first day game. So I think is amazing that people still find new configurations and puzzles so many years after release, shows how much potential the game has.

And AI is not that bad on custom maps, is often the mapmakers who make errors and confuse it by giving too many priorities.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 27, 2016 11:15 AM

Yes you can make specific maps were ai will be better, you can also give it a high level hero, with artifacts and spells and tons of resources, but that just means ai start with an advantage, not that it's good.
I suppose ai would do better in combat if it had some magic schools, but it rarely has in my experience.
Imagine the ai starting to cast Expert Berserk or cast Implosion on your Gold Dragons with a high powered Sorcery specialist. Or spreading terror across the land with Conflux tier 4-7 units casting Armageddon. Humans would do that, but the ai won't.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted January 27, 2016 01:40 PM

Oh no, not a sorcery specialist!? What are we to do? *Cries*

The AI also tends to be slow to build up its town, iIRC it will often wait to buy anything past fourth level unit structures until the first month has passed.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
posted January 27, 2016 01:41 PM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 13:45, 27 Jan 2016.

Warrior, Builder and Explorer AI personality they show in Thieves' Guild. I never bothered to observe them.

But I would say that for fun they are adequate. I've never been one to want huge challenge against AI players.

Maps in which you have to fight wandering monsters more than players are more interesting to me.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 27, 2016 05:29 PM

OhforfSake said:
Oh no, not a sorcery specialist!? What are we to do? *Cries*

LOL, guess you never encountered a level 30 Malekith casting Armageddon or Implosion all over the place.

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 27, 2016 05:35 PM
Edited by fred79 at 17:39, 27 Jan 2016.

OhforfSake said:
Oh no, not a sorcery specialist!? What are we to do? *Cries*

The AI also tends to be slow to build up its town, iIRC it will often wait to buy anything past fourth level unit structures until the first month has passed.


if even then. i will provide enough resources for the ai to build everything in a castle 10 times over, and after month 3, they will still have some things unbuilt(and have enough resources at the time to build 3 more castles to the max), that they could have used. it's ridiculous. the only way to circumvent stupid ai, is to fix events for the ai using timed events for castles, or using erm to bulk up their heroes or armies(or of course, to bulk them up yourself in the beginning).

another thing i'll point out, is the outcome of fights with ai vary widely, depending on what spells you use, or where you move, or who you attack. i've had the ai do completely different things, like run when they could have won(and before they had even lost a 4th of their entire army); depending on what i did during one turn. not even talking about wasting one of their stacks; just casting a simple spell, or blocking one shooter.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 27, 2016 05:43 PM

fred79 said:

another thing i'll point out, is the outcome of fights with ai vary widely, depending on what spells you use, or where you move, or who you attack. i've had the ai do completely different things, like run when they could have won(and before they had even lost a 4th of their entire army); depending on what i did during one turn. not even talking about wasting one of their stacks; just casting a simple spell, or blocking one shooter.

Yeah this is a big problem for the ai, as soon as it don't like the odds it runs, wasting all of it's army.
I have never seen the ai surrender, guess it can't do that, but if it always want to retreat it could at least try to make the best of it's creatures before throwing them away.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted January 27, 2016 07:46 PM

phoenix4ever said:
OhforfSake said:
Oh no, not a sorcery specialist!? What are we to do? *Cries*

LOL, guess you never encountered a level 30 Malekith casting Armageddon or Implosion all over the place.


Sure, he cast armageddon, that means he perhaps only has a black dragon stack and I destroy him because he has horrible attack and defense stat against my units ganging up on his.

Alternatively he casts implosion and he can only target one stack, I cast haste and I can target all his, and I've first spell next round too.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 27, 2016 08:10 PM

phoenix4ever said:
LOL, guess you never encountered a level 30 Malekith casting Armageddon or Implosion all over the place.


Umm, still there, are you?  An AI with offense, armorer, archery, resistance, earth and air, + several times your army, this is a challenge. Anyway, if one day, you want to test your skills vs a progressive AI, THIS is the way to see how good you are. Customizable from 0% to 1000%, and at 1000%, just one mass haste from him and your army is gone, before second round.

Because relying on arma or implo is the most crap strategy for AI, it is so easy to find the required artifacts, creatures or locations, in order to counter that.

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Manta
Manta


Adventuring Hero
posted January 27, 2016 10:32 PM

phoenix4ever said:

I have never seen the ai surrender, guess it can't do that, but if it always want to retreat it could at least try to make the best of it's creatures before throwing them away.


On extremely rare occasions I've seen the enemy try to surrender, so its actually possible. I have no idea what determines it though...maybe he never has enough money to pay the price.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 28, 2016 12:32 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 00:37, 28 Jan 2016.

@Salamandre Yeah 1000% sounds like a challenge, but it does'nt really have anything to do with original Heroes 3.
You expect the ai to be able to take care of itself at impossible, unfortunately that's not the case. Instead the map maker must go out of his way to make the map challenging or using mods like you mentioned.

@Manta Okay I don't think I had ever seen ai try to surrender, not even on impossible were it should have plenty of gold, but I guess it can happen then, that's nice to know.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 28, 2016 01:11 AM

I assure you that if you create medium or large map with 5-7 AI at impossible then you record the game, while not allowing you even a single reload (when stop game -reload later thats fine), suddenly you will feel a big difference. Try that.

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 28, 2016 02:06 AM

Salamandre said:
I assure you that if you create medium or large map with 5-7 AI at impossible then you record the game, while not allowing you even a single reload (when stop game -reload later thats fine), suddenly you will feel a big difference. Try that.


i know you weren't talking to me, but i've never done that, myself. i have a map that i can easily switch to those specs; i'll give it a go and get back to you. hopefully i won't come back shamefully, but most likely i will.

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Magick
Magick

Tavern Dweller
posted January 28, 2016 03:49 AM

Salamandre said:
I assure you that if you create medium or large map with 5-7 AI at impossible then you record the game ... you


Not too sure to understand. Like most game I didnt feel AI difference between hard and impossible. Just ressource difference. I dont feel AI clever, nor wandering monster rally you less at impossible than normal or hard (with same troops).

Fact is just at impossible you start with nothing, that make you loose precious time, in  a game where take a good start is so important.

I m wrong, or perhaps didnt completly understood ?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 28, 2016 09:27 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 09:32, 28 Jan 2016.

@Sala I often play my own XL map with underground on impossible, with 5 opponents. Usually it takes some time before the ai starts harassing me, that might be because it's an XL and not a M or L map, that might have been more difficult. But I always win on my map even without Town Portal, Dimension Door and Shackles of War, but it takes several months cause I take ai towns, then they take mine and so on...

@Magick Yeah I don't feel much difference from hard to impossible either, only thing is a slower and more difficult start and that the ai is allowed to buy more heroes.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 28, 2016 10:46 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 10:47, 28 Jan 2016.

No people, what I mean is: stop using the reload feature. When you lose an early or late battle, vs neutrals or AI, just continue. Or be more careful. Then not larger than large map. You want challenge, accept to do a few compromise.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 28, 2016 12:15 PM

Yeah I try not to reload too often and just accept the way things are, but sometimes I reload as the ai taking a town will just prolong the game, which is annoying when you know you win anyway.
But I have began to accept plagues and don't even try to reload anymore, they are part of the game and affect all players the same way.
But when your main hero have reached certain stats, skills and has some good artifacts there is not much the ai can do, cause they will always lose to that hero.
Playing on maps smaller than XL is a little boring to me, I like to take my time to develop towns and heroes and explore the map.

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Magick
Magick

Tavern Dweller
posted January 28, 2016 04:57 PM

ok Salamandre, understood.

I have to admit reload is not a feature I use a lot, and anyway, I m not looking for especially hard map. For me a impossible map is not a interresting map. I just ask in a map to be large enough, for about same reason than phénix. I also like to start with only one castle or village, and be able to have choice at start between different castle and different location. Shortly I have very few map to play, especially when you kick out map with minimalist decoration, that is usually a hint that show immedialtly the overall maps recieved minimalist work and test.
Map just need to be difficult enough, not to be an hells.

Making very difficult maps is very easy, and (really) impossible maps even more, but it have no interrest both for mapmaker and player. By the way making a very hard map is more successful by making player poor than making AI rich.

We have a chance at Homm3. AI dont cheat. It didnt buy troops or buy when it have no ressource or gold, dont gain more xp than you, dont travel faster than you ect ... AI give you fair game.

AI never cancel a fight it lose, reload it until you loose, then delete the save to prevent you to do the same thing.

By reloading it s the player who is the cheater vs an AI that dont cheat. Of course cheaters cant be defeated ... but cant claim victory either.

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RoseKavalier
RoseKavalier


Admirable
Supreme Hero
posted January 30, 2016 08:34 PM
Edited by RoseKavalier at 20:35, 30 Jan 2016.

AI is so stupid you can actually beat this map.

Stupid AI

Screenshots for the lazy.




All spells except Quicksand, but you only have 60 spell points. Enemy has Badge of Courage obviously





Easy.

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