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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: About developing heroes with scholar
Thread: About developing heroes with scholar This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 05, 2016 09:03 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:57, 05 Feb 2016.

About developing heroes with scholar

I want to compare the development of some heroes that start with scholar. I will assume that I'm starting with Corkes on Cove, at 200% on a Huge map, where pathfinding and logistics are a must and you have a lot of small battles per square but you can't spare much time or army to develop secondary heroes, specially ones that aren't particullary good at creeping.

I assume we all agree Alamar is the top scholar and he sucks for everything else, since he gets so few deffense points that any might hero that knows the spell and has advanced Earth will do better use of it. He is a "bad" hero so u need to sacrifize creatures but if you skip the magic school he can be totally functional at level 5. So he is out of debate. Use treasure chests, learning stones or creatures if needed but don't battle with him unless you are ready to loose that army, in that case he will gain more levels if you battle then if you simply use Grotto but will take much longer.

Now what I want to do is compare to find Aine or Octavia first day in tavern and then compare it to find Rashka.
Both Aine and Octavia are top supporting heroes, earning you money just for belonging to your faction and being able to trade spells between heroes, but you don't start with a mage guild and 500 is a lot of money first days, so to buy a spellbook to a secondary hero may take a while. On the other hand, Octavia starts with Offense and 2 of attack and deffense so you can level her up by combat with no worries, she wont do much worst then Corkes by now. But if you are evolving a might hero with a 10 in logistics, will probably not skip it nor will you skip first magic school if Air or Earth. So, suddenly when she finally learns Wisdom she is allready half built and you are starting to have plans for her. And in this case it is probable that even at level 12 she still doesn't have Expert Scholar and you can't afford to level her up with creatures, it would be a couple of those banks you have been taking...
Now, Aine is 100% useless early game (except for the 350 gold, of course) but you can also level her up to top scholar in just a couple of levels. Even if you have to skip Earth you know you will get it sonner then later and she is so bad at lower levels you even hesitate to use her to guard the castle, but if you get her a bit latter, when you already built Grotto and are full of useless artifacts she is very easy to develop. The same can't be said about Octavia, unless you still can't access a Freelancer's Guild and have been very unlucky with Diplomacy.
Now assume you have Rashka day 1. He doesn't earn you money and has two useless skills, his specialty is useless and he doesn't even start with a spellbook. But if you mindlessly use him to creep he will develop pretty good and you will lose after all way less creatures then you would had to sacrifize to level him, while learning Expert Scholar and Advanced Wisdom in the process.
So, for me Rashka is (surprisingly) the best of the three.

By the way, have you noticed there are no neutral heroes starting with Scholar?

Any toughts?



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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 05, 2016 10:49 AM

Scholar ads only 40/60/80% to learn spells. Its wrong skill. So correction is needed. I think that 100% will be good. But still too small. Its needed adding new bonuses. It is possible by ERM scripts.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 05, 2016 12:43 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:09, 05 Feb 2016.

Baronus said:
Scholar ads only 40/60/80% to learn spells. Its wrong skill. So correction is needed. I think that 100% will be good. But still too small. Its needed adding new bonuses. It is possible by ERM scripts.

Nah, you're making a confusion with Eagle Eye. Scholar trades spells between with 100% certainty, as long as one knows them. That's why I said Alamar is THE TOP Scholar, cause he knows one battle spell you really don't want to miss and is not so easy to find as Magic Arrow or Shield.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 05, 2016 01:16 PM

Sorry! Mistake. I never play english version Heroes III. Scholar is the worst skill. Unmodable. Only Era scripts can add something to this skill.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 05, 2016 06:50 PM

Baronus said:
Scholar is the worst skill.

What? Scholar rules, only not for main, for some "hero only good to visit windmills". With it you easily double the spells you know.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 05, 2016 09:30 PM

Its my opinion. You cant leran best V level spells. Your strongest hero can learn spells in captured towns. Of course if you fight using more than 1 hero it will be usefull.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 07, 2016 08:44 AM

Baronus said:
Its my opinion. You cant leran best V level spells. Your strongest hero can learn spells in captured towns. Of course if you fight using more than 1 hero it will be usefull.

Even if you only use one hero for battle, something I find strange cause after a while there are too many small battles that would be a waste of time for main but can be very helpfull if taken by somebody else, I usually don't find most towns I conquer allready full built, so mage guilds have to wait for a while and if I have my main weeks away from a castle when I get something good, I would like too have somebody else that could learn it and teach him, specially if I don't have Town Portal.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted February 07, 2016 11:38 AM

Actually, 2/3 equal heroes are better then 1 OP Hero, because you are better in the conquest. Scholar is only useful if you have Adv. Earth and Town Portal.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted February 07, 2016 04:54 PM

If you take into account stat boosters and non-linearity of xp req. pr. level then several heroes are much better than one if we look at the combined prim. stats, but what does it matter if you can put your entire army onto one hero and have him a bit better? 3 level 30's or 1 level 35 Tazar may be enough a difference to make 1 level 35 Tazar better.

Now if you're using heavy spell casters on the other hand, then it might be worth considering. A couple of power boosters and a couple of levels, useless stacks with high health and you can perhaps do some damage to your enemy.

About scholar, imagine you get tp in a town your main is not going to visit (would be a huge waste of town), you can get tp with another hero, retreat him and hire him close to your main (assuming he doesn't have earth). Thanks to scholar you can transport the spell in stead of needing to transport the main hero, it's a huge plus in my book.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted February 07, 2016 09:49 PM

this is called in MP community Poor Man Town Portal.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 07, 2016 10:35 PM

I know that playing only one strong hero is bad tactic. I said that if you want learn best 5 level spells you must travelling and visit towns. If I play with a few strong heroes they are in an opposite sides of map. Its hard to meet him. There is some disadvantages in this skill. And all hero has only 8 stacks. We have powerful skills like attack, logistics, 4 magical, wisdom, and in exceptional situations necromancy, navigation. I think that resignation one of them is loss. We must compare.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 07, 2016 11:00 PM

level 5 spells are like the cerise on a cake. It wouldn't be there, the cake is still good and comestible. 99,9999% of existing maps do not require any level 5 spell in order to win. And for the 0,1% remaining, the 5th level spell is usually given via tome, or quest, or scholar.

And I am sorry to say that only a total noob would claim that scholar is bad or worst skill. Sure, it is not worth to get on MAIN hero, but having a secondary with scholar and wisdom expert will save a lot of time, especially in human vs human games, where every lost step counts.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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magick
magick

Tavern Dweller
posted February 08, 2016 07:03 AM

A must have imo, for a secondary heroes, to share and dispatch spells. Most emblematic exemple is Aine.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2016 10:37 AM

It is my opinion and nobody must agree. There is no enemy there and no reason to usinig epitets. Arguments. I said that in specificial situations it maybe usefull. But there is a lot of most powerfull skills. Everyone play in his own style. And that is good. I prefer eg. might no magic. But im using spells too. I like tactical and strategical gameplay. Scholar is usefull but not powerfull.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted February 08, 2016 12:29 PM

You're contradicting yourself .

Baronus said:
Scholar is the worst skill.


Baronus said:
Scholar is usefull but not powerfull.

____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2016 02:15 PM

I shuold say that in on of worsts.
Eagle eye is worst but maybe usefull. First aid is worst but maybe useful. Sometimes.
I that are three worsts skills.
Another weakly is scouting, sorcery and learnig(experience). But these can be easy moded.
This is collection worsts skills in my opinion.

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magick
magick

Tavern Dweller
posted February 08, 2016 04:06 PM

Scouting is usually a bad skill. At best it s situational, useful only one some maps. In the inverse, it s a bit like navigation, that is the worst skill ever on map without water to travel on.

Artillery and mysticism are not know either to be top dogs.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2016 04:37 PM

Mysticism can be modded. Artillery if you boost ballista statistics will be powerfull skill. Sometimes artillery can defence town becouse AI tower shoots are often in wrong target.
Scholar is comfortable. All your heroes can learn all spells in short time. Get handy mod to learn 5 level spells...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 08, 2016 04:45 PM

Baronus said:
Get handy mod to learn 5 level spells...

As a matter of fact what I was thinking was that one could mod a Scholar specialty where hero is always able to teach spells one level above his Scholar level. Maybe for Thane.

Another specialty I think could be coll was Town Portal: hero gains a 5% per level of the movement and spellpoints he spends to cast the spell. At higher levels he gains movement and spellpoints by casting the spell and can travel forever over the adventure map.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted February 08, 2016 07:37 PM

Infinite movement hero sounds extremely op to me. Even if it's in the late game stages.

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