|
| Thread: What's the difference between Left and Right? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted March 22, 2016 09:23 PM |
|
|
mvassilev said:
To those who say there's no difference between left and right, I'm not just asking about whether there's a difference in their policies when in power, but also about them as cultural forces or "tribes". To take the US as an example, maybe the typical Democratic and Republican politician don't pursue significantly different policies, and yet there are real differences between their supporters.
to say that there are differences between the supporters of either left or right, is missing out on the bigger picture. either "side's" faux-categorical beliefs are immaterial. their vote means nothing, and THEY mean nothing to those in power.
...or do you want the generic answer that rightists are "morally bankrupt", and leftists are "misguided morons"? because that's what the popular arguments regarding the subject any time it comes up between actual political affiliates, would have you believe.
but if you take a step back and look at the entire thing, you will see that i'm not just blowing smoke when i say, "it doesn't matter/the commoners control nothing/etc, etc.".
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted March 22, 2016 09:31 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
I'll admit that the thought crossed my mind, but since you mentioned economically conservative, I was wondering what it was and how it would be any different from economically liberal, especially since we're talking about the u.s which is the biggest corporate nation around.
But maybe we're sidetracking, I don't care about it that much anyway.
Well typically conservatives oppose welfare(things like universal healthcare), high taxes, among other things. Liberals typically support the aforementioned, I am unsure if you would consider this more part of their policy platform rather than their economic one though. Both receive corporate funding, and how they try to hide it varies. Though this is kind of off point so I will leave it.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
|
|
posted March 22, 2016 09:36 PM |
|
|
Here I thought left represent the social status of people and their close-mindness, while the right are more open-minded and democratic.
Or, at least, that's what it should be. Today, things are more disorganized that you can't point out what they are really about.
If we say the left are "red" ones and the right are the "blue" ones, what's then in the middle, the "green" ones?
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 22, 2016 10:32 PM |
|
|
EnergyZ said:
If we say the left are "red" ones and the right are the "blue" ones, what's then in the middle, the "green" ones?
the smart ones. 
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 22, 2016 11:07 PM |
|
|
fred79 said:
to say that there are differences between the supporters of either left or right, is missing out on the bigger picture. either "side's" faux-categorical beliefs are immaterial. their vote means nothing, and THEY mean nothing to those in power.
Individual votes matter little, but gaining the support of a sufficiently large aggregate is how you win - and you can't just say arbitrary things, you have to appeal to people, and those appeals are based at least in part on cultural markers.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted March 22, 2016 11:38 PM |
|
|
It's basically a large scale version of a false choice fallacy. Condensing all of political science into a simple binary question makes things easy for the average person to understand and greases the wheels of government. That's about the only good thing that can be said about such a wholly inaccurate model of multidimensional political space.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 12:07 AM |
|
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 12:22 AM |
|
|
No. Two choices are easier to understand than twenty.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 12:44 AM |
|
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 02:24 AM |
|
|
mvassilev said:
Individual votes matter little, but gaining the support of a sufficiently large aggregate is how you win - and you can't just say arbitrary things, you have to appeal to people, and those appeals are based at least in part on cultural markers.
appealing to masses of people who willingly believe whoever supports the lies they tell themselves, is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. with a year to train, I could run for president, if i had people backing me financially. and i would undoubtably win... if i didn't take extreme issue with dishonesty. which i do.
have you ever watched religious programs? ever watch any where there is a stadium full of people? ever pay attention to what those people speaking into the mic are actually saying? i do. i had a discussion with a cousin not long ago, where i tried to point out what kind of person was speaking into the mic, among a stadium of rapt listeners; eating out of the guy's hand.
politics and religion are siblings. twin siblings. if you seperate yourself from both, and examine both with an open mind, you'll see they are the same thing, at their core.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 04:55 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 05:58, 23 Mar 2016.
|
fred79 said:
appealing to masses of people who willingly believe whoever supports the lies they tell themselves, is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
politics and religion are siblings. twin siblings. if you seperate yourself from both, and examine both with an open mind, you'll see they are the same thing, at their core.
Well, they are similar regarding that aspect and nothing corrupts politics as fast as religion. Although that doesnt work in Western Europe anymore since most people dont care about religion and secular political traditions are very strong. In both of our countries, religion is a very affective carrot in politics though and that just stinks.
I wouldnt call them twins. Religion would be the worse poison since its reach goes deeper in the skin. Politics mainly determine how you'll be governed while religion determines how you live. And in this age, it simply makes people interiorize denial. Because of religion, denying reality becomes a character trait and nothing distorts a person's character faster than having an unhealthy relationship with reality. Fortunately, while politics is inevitable in life, religion is not and more people see that each passing century.
Btw, if you expect democracy and voting to radically change the system from bottom to top, you will be disappointed and think of it as a complete sham. Power play and corruption do not disappear under a democracy. However, the limit to how far the politicians can take that actually changes. In a democracy, politicians may not be honest but they still have a career that can be taken down by how people look at them. And despite all the populism, the religious exploitation, dagger and cloak technicalities etc, this still prevents a serious amount of -hypothetically infinite- power abuse. Just compare countries with a democratic tradition and functioning elections to actual dictatorships and you'll see this cyrstal clear.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 06:28 AM |
|
|
mvassilev said:
when in power
That's the trick  Before elected, oh so different. Afterwards, just as complacent and greedy.
I remember a guy who said he was glad he is not rich because he wouldn't be a lefty otherwise. Lol. It's easier to shout power to the people when you are not in a position of power.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 07:09 AM |
|
|
How is Alexis Tsipras doing?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 08:30 AM |
|
|
Political and economical agenda of each party should use a different terminology. Otherwise, nonsense follows. Like, "communistic China of free market", you know.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 08:37 AM |
|
|
artu said:
How is Alexis Tsipras doing?
Fantastic, he's almost destroyed us. All he needs is a little push and down the cliff we go!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 01:00 PM |
|
|
Doomforge said:
Political and economical agenda of each party should use a different terminology. Otherwise, nonsense follows. Like, "communistic China of free market", you know.
And the social agenda? That's the main agenda these days. When people talk about refugees, gender roles, religion, and even the media, that's the true measure of where one may sit on the spectrum, which contains both moderates and hardliners (on both sides), and you also have the libertarian/authoritarian divide, which has become more prevalent these days.
And beyond the previously mentioned stuff, there are all these other subcategories that fit with neither spectrum. Just a search of political parties on Wikipedia will lead you agrarianism, mnonarchism, climate scepticism, and the ilk.
____________
"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 02:19 PM |
|
|
A Conversation
"Do you think the right is right?
"Naw, the left is right and the right is out in left field.
Mostly agree with Fred...all a load of Rubbish, just like Democrat and Republican.
However, todays America is a poltical laboratory where a new recipe' has been conjured; take all sides beat-together well to make a single goo that cannot stand for anything. "Yesss Master, I will check-out my brain...yes master...what's left of it...right now."
|
|
AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 07:39 PM |
|
Edited by AlexSpl at 20:43, 23 Mar 2016.
|
|
Right is clockwise, left is not. It is a very strong concept. It's all about rotation. Of course, you must define a vector. Though, some people associate left and right with West and East respectively, which is wrong. Our head, through which we observe the world, is uncapable to rotate 360 degrees, that's why we differentiate our hands. Why so easily? Because our head is always in the same 180 degrees segment. Btw, right rotation and left rotation are very different in quatum physics.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 07:59 PM |
|
|
don't forget north and south. those two hate groups each other, too. 
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 23, 2016 08:31 PM |
|
|
We can seemingly separate the left-right spectrum into multiple dimensions, such as the social and economic, but that makes the clustering of parties and cultural "tribes" more puzzling. The Soviet Union and hippies are both in the cluster labeled "left", and Hitler and libertarians in "right". Why is that the standard distinction? For example, why not hippies and libertarians vs Hitler and the Soviet Union ("top" vs "bottom"?)?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
|
|
