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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] MMH5.5 In-Game SkillWheel
Thread: [MOD] MMH5.5 In-Game SkillWheel This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2016 08:08 PM

This is a great addition. HoMM 5.5 is such a beauty.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 19, 2016 06:28 PM

I recommend adding a screenshot of the skillwheel to your main post,
if you don't want to do it yourself you can add following link between
img brackets:

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/29/28634/rc8_sw_elem.jpg
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 19, 2016 06:31 PM

Also replace download links with

http://www.moddb.com/mods/might-magic-heroes-55/downloads

so they will be updated automatically.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 09:35 AM

@ThGryphn: I was wondering if you still have some energy left after this massive undertaking, because I have found a way to add magic classes to stronghold.

This will however require 2 more wheels, (the barbarian wheel remains unchanged).
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 02:04 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 14:09, 23 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
@ThGryphn: I was wondering if you still have some energy left after this massive undertaking, because I have found a way to add magic classes to stronghold.

This will however require 2 more wheels, (the barbarian wheel remains unchanged).


So, let me get this straight, Stronghold will have 3 distinct classes, each with 12 skills, instead of 12+2?

That would be awesome!

It's not that much of work to do (it's actually minuscule compared to what I endured, most of which was rework, or more like re-re-re-rework)... Let me know the details about the new classes, so I place their skills at the right places on the wheel.



Edit: Actually, if you hit me with this new info today, I can try to finish by tomorrow, after which I have a one-week vacation plan...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 03:14 PM

yes 2 REAL new classes with own skillwheels, they will however each have 4 instead of 6 heroes and all magic heroes will be female and all might heroes male.

Reason is new classes must have ranged attack (hardcoded) and looks stupid with male model.

The might class keeps same unique wheel with 14 skills, the magic classes each 12.

the magic classes will have a regular spellbook and don't use any rage at all. they cannot learn bloodrage,shouting or learning, instead magic schools, sorcery and enlightenment.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 04:43 PM

magnomagus said:
yes 2 REAL new classes with own skillwheels, they will however each have 4 instead of 6 heroes and all magic heroes will be female and all might heroes male.

Reason is new classes must have ranged attack (hardcoded) and looks stupid with male model.

The might class keeps same unique wheel with 14 skills, the magic classes each 12.

the magic classes will have a regular spellbook and don't use any rage at all. they cannot learn bloodrage,shouting or learning, instead magic schools, sorcery and enlightenment.


Both classes unable to learn bloodrage, shouting, or learning?? But that doesn't sound like Stronghold at all! I could live with one such class, but two out of three?..

I really think we should keep two classes hardcore Stronghold with their racial skills. One magic oriented Stronghold hero sounds very interesting though...

So, please just convert the Shaman to be the magic hero and let the others stay the same.



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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 23, 2016 05:04 PM

I agree with the Griffin but lets not make assumptions before testing it .
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 05:26 PM

You get me wrong, might remains dominant in stronghold because the hero pattern is actually 12+4+4. The variation in might heroes is actually better because only some will start with shouting or learning, others will start with only bloodrage.

Combining magic & bloodrage is impossible both technically (hardcoded) and balance wise (because of stacking up mass righteous might & battle cry for example). Bloodrage is regarded by the game as the magic school for warcries.

At first I thought of creating only one magic class, but I had to split it up in 2 small magic classes: shamans (good themed) & witches (bad themed).

This is because all stronghold magic heroes learn spells from their specialization (similar to the old inga special, but more advanced and better balanced) and different development patterns are needed for different magic schools.




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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 06:09 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 18:14, 23 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
You get me wrong, might remains dominant in stronghold because the hero pattern is actually 12+4+4. The variation in might heroes is actually better because only some will start with shouting or learning, others will start with only bloodrage.

Combining magic & bloodrage is impossible both technically (hardcoded) and balance wise (because of stacking up mass righteous might & battle cry for example). Bloodrage is regarded by the game as the magic school for warcries.

At first I thought of creating only one magic class, but I had to split it up in 2 small magic classes: shamans (good themed) & witches (bad themed).

This is because all stronghold magic heroes learn spells from their specialization (similar to the old inga special, but more advanced and better balanced) and different development patterns are needed for different magic schools.






So, correct me if I'm wrong, it's going to be like having 5 Stronghold classes: 3 might classes, each starting with Bloodrage, Shouting, or Learning, and two magic classes.

If this is true, what do you say we make it official: Let's really have 5 classes for Stronghold, each with 12 skills.

1) Barbarian: Starts with Bloodrage. Can learn Shouting but not Learning. Forfeits Shatter Summoning (compared to now).

Full skill scheme: Bloodrage (12%), Shouting (12%), Combat (12%), Offense (10%), Defense (10%), War Machines (8%), Luck (8%), Leadership (8%), Logistics (8%), Shatters except Summoning (4% each).


2) Chieftain: Starts with Shouting. Can learn Bloodrage and Learning. Forfeits Shatter Life and Shatter Summoning (compared to now).

Full skill scheme: Shouting (12%), Defense (12%), Offense (12%), War Machines (10%), Bloodrage (10%), Combat (8%), Luck (8%), Leadership (8%), Logistics (8%), Learning (4%), Shatter Dark and Desstructive (4% each).


3) Veteran: Starts with Learning. Can learn Bloodrage but not Shouting. Forfeits Shatter Destructive.

Full skill scheme: Learning (12%), Bloodrage (12%), War Machines (12%), Offense (10%), Defense (10%), Combat (8%), Luck (8%), Leadership (8%), Logistics (8%), Shatters except Destructive (4% each).


4) Shaman: Good magic orc-lady that I couldn't figure out yet


5) Witch: Bad magic orc-b**ch that I couldn't figure out yet


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 06:20 PM

No, nooo

Shamans, veterans and Chieftains were never REAL classes, internally they are all barbarians following the same skilltree. the only differentiation was their starting skills. (back then I wasn't as good in modding and never found a way to circumvent all hardcoded issues for this faction)

In the new plan there are 3 real classes

-Chieftain (12 heroes) (includes everything that was previously available in terms of gameplay)

-Shaman (4 heroes)
-Witch (4 heroes)
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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 23, 2016 06:27 PM
Edited by dredknight at 18:27, 23 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:

In the new plan there are 3 real classes

-Chieftain (12 heroes) (includes everything that was previously available in terms of gameplay)

-Shaman (4 heroes)
-Witch (4 heroes)


What are you waiting for?
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 06:49 PM

Ahhh, I was too hopeful it seems... hate these hardcoded barriers!

I was especially hoping to make all classes with 12 skills, getting rid of the 12+2 thing...

I'm thinking of something but I have a question first: Consider the current Veteran that starts with Learning, which is not included in the 12%, 10%, etc scheme... Now that she has Learning, what is the percentage of acquiring another Learning perk at the next level up?

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 09:02 PM

OK, regardless of the answer to my question above, here is a suggestion:


New might hero class for Stronghold: Barbarian

Starting skill: Bloodrage, or Shouting, or Learning

Skill Structure: Bloodrage (12%), Offense (12%), Combat (12%), War Machines (10%), Defense (10%), Shouting (8%), Luck (8%), Leadership (8%), Logistics (8%), Shatter Dark (4%), Shatter Destructive (4%), Learning (4%).


Notably, this means forfeiting Shatter Life and Shatter Summoning for the Barbarian class. However, this can be remedied by including Shatter Life and Shatter Summoning in the Magic classes (Shaman and Witch).


For a Barbarian hero starting with Bloodrage, the skill structure means not being offered Learning much, and will probably lead to skipping it. Shouting will be a possibility but will depend on the player's choice; it can easily be skipped in favor of other skills...

For a Barbarian hero with Shouting, it means almost definitely being offered Bloodrage and again probably skipping Learning.

For a Barbarian hero with Learning, it again means almost definitely seeing Bloodrage offering and also potentially Shouting. This class will have the easiest path to get all Stronghold specific skills, but also the chance to skip the most specific ones (Bloodrage and Shouting), for whatever reason.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 09:53 PM

I will try to explain this simply: there can be only one class that has bloodrage & the unique hero UI, this is all tied and hardcoded.

Therefore this class will have 14 skills, but shout & learn will have special status and are not included in the random levelups.

any other scenario and i have to throw skills away.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 09:57 PM

magnomagus said:
I will try to explain this simply: there can be only one class that has bloodrage & the unique hero UI, this is all tied and hardcoded.

Therefore this class will have 14 skills, but shout & learn will have special status and are not included in the random levelups.

any other scenario and i have to throw skills away.


I got it, that's why I'm suggesting throwing Shatter Life and Shatter Summoning away from Barbarian class's skill development.

I don't think you read it very carefully

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 10:06 PM

i thought you meant a new class,

but i don't like it anyway, in my new setup learn & shout will have a special status (same as renegade) so technically the are not part of the wheel. no reason to remove anything.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2016 10:29 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 22:31, 23 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
i thought you meant a new class,

but i don't like it anyway, in my new setup learn & shout will have a special status (same as renegade) so technically the are not part of the wheel. no reason to remove anything.


Why throw them out?

Renegade has a completely different story. Here, you're forcing two skills out of the wheel. Two skills that are strongly connected to the faction... I don't see any reason to alienate those skills. Although the might class is a single class, you're forcefully differentiating heroes that start with Learning and Shouting.

I don't see any good reason why:

1) Heroes starting with Shouting cannot learn Learning.

2) Heroes starting with Learning cannot learn Shouting.

3) Heroes starting with Bloodrage can learn neither Shouting nor Learning!

4) It shouldn't be possible to have all Stronghold specific skills on a hero.

The current RC8 arrangement was understandable since there was not a possibility of additional Magic classes for Stronghold, and we needed three classes. With those two other Magic classes though, all the current Stronghold classes are going to merge into a single class, so why not create a synergy and really combine them into one?

Please consider my suggestion again. It makes interesting hero development paths possible, without forcing any particular path, and still allowing distinct paths for heroes starting with different skills (Bloodrage, Shouting, Learning).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 23, 2016 10:43 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 22:55, 23 Jun 2016.

i never want more than 12 skills in the wheel, because the player loses control and levelups become too much a lottery, especially when you need to pick from 4 shatters the best one against your opponent.

i also never combine sorcery & leadership in a wheel, that also applies to shouting.

Quote:
1) Heroes starting with Shouting cannot learn Learning.

2) Heroes starting with Learning cannot learn Shouting.

3) Heroes starting with Bloodrage can learn neither Shouting nor Learning!


i don't care about any of this, with so many heroes in one class there should be some differentiation. but I'm willing to leave the option on the witch hut

a barb should have all shatters because it is the only class that doesn't have any magic school and you are always granted the shatters you cannot cast.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 24, 2016 10:09 AM

Alright here are the draft wheels, because shamans/witches learn start & learn one school automated and cannot learn that way from other schools they need a bit of a unique setup.

The 2 magic schools that define the class need to be on top of the wheel but only have a 4% chance to be learned










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