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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] In-Game Creature Info Page (for all H5)
Thread: [MOD] In-Game Creature Info Page (for all H5) This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 01, 2016 09:24 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 21:25, 01 Dec 2016.

Quote:
I don't know what you mean by "it doesn't fit 4:3". It fits any aspect ratio just fine. I widened the frame by only 60 pixels.


It takes too much space from the 3d model view and in some cases for 16:10 as well.

Quote:
If you understood the picture correctly, then it seems you're contradicting yourself. You said you don't want one button, but then you don't like to see the multiple buttons either?? You say you like the skillwheel mods, and they achieve that cleanliness by having a single button.


I meant I want 8 buttons but I want those buttons to be the same design as the 'pizza button' that opens the skillwheel. Only the picture on it different but the same button. This because of visual consistency.

Quote:
The elementals are not on the faction pages, and there are other neutrals than the elementals. So, I intend to keep the button for the neutrals.


I thought we agreed the elementals were going in the 8th slot?? so what is going there then?  and i don't care about the other neutrals why do they need to show in a creature hire menu from a town? Please try to understand me: I'm approaching this from what makes sense from the perspective of developing a PROFESSIONAL RETAIL GAME. Not from the perspective of toying around with an UI and filling it with goodies just because it is possible. I hate that approach to modding in general.


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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2016 10:30 PM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
I don't know what you mean by "it doesn't fit 4:3". It fits any aspect ratio just fine. I widened the frame by only 60 pixels.


It takes too much space from the 3d model view and in some cases for 16:10 as well.

Quote:
If you understood the picture correctly, then it seems you're contradicting yourself. You said you don't want one button, but then you don't like to see the multiple buttons either?? You say you like the skillwheel mods, and they achieve that cleanliness by having a single button.


I meant I want 8 buttons but I want those buttons to be the same design as the 'pizza button' that opens the skillwheel. Only the picture on it different but the same button. This because of visual consistency.

Quote:
The elementals are not on the faction pages, and there are other neutrals than the elementals. So, I intend to keep the button for the neutrals.


I thought we agreed the elementals were going in the 8th slot?? so what is going there then?  and i don't care about the other neutrals why do they need to show in a creature hire menu from a town? Please try to understand me: I'm approaching this from what makes sense from the perspective of developing a PROFESSIONAL RETAIL GAME. Not from the perspective of toying around with an UI and filling it with goodies just because it is possible. I hate that approach to modding in general.




Alright, see, you should be more clear: you wanted to use the same skillwheel button, customized. No problem.

This actually means I need to widen the frame by only ~30 pixels instead of 60, which should alleviate your concerns about covering the 3d model. Note, even with 60 pixels wider, the frame ends slightly before where the Sulfur icon ends, and it does not interfere with the 3d model.

About the elementals, we had agreed on having all of them accessible from the 8th slot, but the 8th slot is proving to be a lot of extra work, and very problematic with the page dynamics (going between stats and abilities). So I stopped working on it: there are now 7 slots.

Neutrals can be purchased outside the town, right? So, it would be useful to have a separate page for neutrals. In any case, I think it's valuable, even if only for the sake of completeness...

Plus, with 7 slots, I have space to place the buttons for "other" factions for quick switch between pages, as well as space for an exit button. 8 slots leaves almost no space for anything...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 01, 2016 11:13 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 23:17, 01 Dec 2016.

Quote:
This actually means I need to widen the frame by only ~30 pixels instead of 60, which should alleviate your concerns about covering the 3d model. Note, even with 60 pixels wider, the frame ends slightly before where the Sulfur icon ends, and it does not interfere with the 3d model.


I'm quite sure 8 buttons in row should fit next to the 'hire creatures' text if the text is changed to 'recruits'. if it doesn't then i need to come up with a shorter word or ultimately resort to one button.
All creatures are showcased differently some are already very close to the texture, look for example at skeleton on 4:3.
I also dislike this idea because it is visually inconsistent with the other windows and the placement of the skillwheel button in similar windows. I want all those things to be consistent so it looks like one product made by same people!

Quote:
About the elementals, we had agreed on having all of them accessible from the 8th slot, but the 8th slot is proving to be a lot of extra work, and very problematic with the page dynamics (going between stats and abilities). So I stopped working on it: there are now 7 slots.


yes, that's what I expected so that's why I proposed to place only the faction elemental choice in that slot. This is the only neutral that plays a role in the upgrade choice decision, so maybe it can be show in a half-sized column' to leave space for the exit button. Otherwise just scrap them.

Quote:
Neutrals can be purchased outside the town, right? So, it would be useful to have a separate page for neutrals. In any case, I think it's valuable, even if only for the sake of completeness...


Maybe a single button in caravan section or is this not another window internally?



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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2016 11:58 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 00:03, 02 Dec 2016.

I can confirm (using the same text style and size) that even with the word "Recruits" and even if you use 8 buttons, it will not fit.

Let's really do a single button implementation. I hope this will convince you:



This is 4:3, the boxiest aspect ratio the game fully supports.
I used a Skeleton and captured it at its farthest point to the frame as it swings

How it works is simple: You don't see the faction buttons' drawer normally, until you click the single button. The drawer unfortunately cannot be animated (that would've been cool), so it rather instantly shows up. I can make it disappear upon a second click at the main button.

It looks and works mighty professional to me, and it's two simple clicks at a very short range to access the faction pages.

Come on, let's do this


PS: By the way, I intend to change the faction icons in the skillwheel with these, so everything will be consistent

PS2: And, I will modify this single button icon to differentiate it from the skillwheel button.


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strigvir
strigvir


Adventuring Hero
posted December 02, 2016 12:41 AM

Is this menu available in combat, or at least in strategic view? It's kinda a pain to remember which spells all variations of Mages, Inquisitors, Shadow Mistresses and Druids have.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 02, 2016 01:34 AM

Alright, you fought bravely for your case and you win.

but the part where the drawer is invisible at first is important to me, so if it doesn't work I would like to go back to the singlebutton default scenario.



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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted December 02, 2016 02:06 AM

strigvir said:
Is this menu available in combat, or at least in strategic view? It's kinda a pain to remember which spells all variations of Mages, Inquisitors, Shadow Mistresses and Druids have.

+1
i find myself checking stats mostly from the adventure map

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 02, 2016 06:35 AM

strigvir said:
Is this menu available in combat, or at least in strategic view? It's kinda a pain to remember which spells all variations of Mages, Inquisitors, Shadow Mistresses and Druids have.


Shhh, you're ruining the surprise

yogi said:

+1
i find myself checking stats mostly from the adventure map


Implementing it at the adventure map basically means insert the button at the resource bar. In that case, the drawer would have to extend downwards. Overall, this solution is problematic. For one, it would conflict with the Necromancy bar. Two, it would conflict with the window frames (see above). Three, there are cases (like when you double-click a creature) when the resource bar disappears but the button is called for. The third issue is solvable by showing the resource bar there too, but the first two are show stoppers, imo.

I think this will be redundant anyway when you can find the button in multiple places. Not in-your-face kinda way, but when you need it most. Creature info, creature hire, town build, and army and stats pages will show the button, as well as hopefully the combat arena.

magnomagus said:
Alright, you fought bravely for your case and you win.

but the part where the drawer is invisible at first is important to me, so if it doesn't work I would like to go back to the singlebutton default scenario.



Alrighty! Believe me, if it doesn't work, I don't like it either

By the way, now that it's out, I had plans to implement it at the Combat Arena as well. My plan for the Combat Arena was comprehensive, but you should like it.

Consider the Rage button. It's big. It shows all the time. It doesn't visually match or play well with the rest of the combat arena UI. Visuals is obvious, and you can have both the Rage window and Combat Log open at the same time, plus it conflicts with the initiative bar. Plus, the rage window is visually awkward by itself: neither the creature icons nor the text is clear, the text font type does not match with anything else in the game or mod.

So, here is my plan to "fix" this:
1) Shrink the rage button and place it inside the combat log "bar" beside the show/hide combat log button.
2) Make it work nicely with the combat log window: when one opens, the other one closes.
3) Complete overhaul of the rage window. It will now use the same window frame as the combat log, with clear text and icons.

Once this is done, placing the creature info button is a breeze: A similarly sized button inside the combat log bar, and a drawer (with matching frame) of faction buttons that opens downwards and plays well with the rage window and combat log.

This way, when the initiative bar is hidden, nothing will be visible. Plus, everything at the combat arena UI will be self-consistent.

What do you say?


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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted December 02, 2016 08:54 AM

TheGryphn, this is great!
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 02, 2016 12:58 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 13:26, 02 Dec 2016.

Quote:
I think this will be redundant anyway when you can find the button in multiple places. Not in-your-face kinda way, but when you need it most.


First you say this and than you plan to throw it all over the place. I HATE that and i get tired of explaining it.

I don't want this button in the the town build menu! Only creature hire and creature upgrade.

Secondly in combat arena you already supposed to right click the creature or double click for detailed info, I don't want it to look like the designers of the game couldn't decide how to handle the in-combat info. So I don't want it in the combat arena.

I agree the rage button is not same style etc, but it is fast, minimalistic and shows all info in one click and it is only shown in one place. I want those characteristics preserved in whatever you plan to do with it.

On a side note i also think the skillwheel button should be removed from biography section, what is it doing there anyway?

EDIT: Also it is illogical to have a skillwheel button, but not the creature info in the kingdom overview. So I'm open to having them both there, as alternative to having anything in the adventure screen. That way only button 'K' needs to be pressed to check the stats at any moment.

EDIT2: I guess for some windows it may be better to just have a single button implementation instead of the drawer?

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strigvir
strigvir


Adventuring Hero
posted December 02, 2016 04:22 PM

magnomagus said:

Secondly in combat arena you already supposed to right click the creature or double click for detailed info,

It doesn't show the spellbook of caster units.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 02, 2016 05:28 PM

So what? then open the spellbook. I don't want to turn the UI in a circus of buttons so everyone has everything available at any moment.
This feature was supposed to be a replacement of the H3 overview screen, now this feature has to popup everywhere in the game?

I don't want a game UI where a player opens a detailed info creature screen just to open another detailed info creature screen
that is ridiculous!

If the current detailed creature info is lacking then it has to be fixed by adding only the missing info (so a single click screen that only shows the spellbooks, nothing else).
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 02, 2016 07:07 PM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
I think this will be redundant anyway when you can find the button in multiple places. Not in-your-face kinda way, but when you need it most.


First you say this and than you plan to throw it all over the place. I HATE that and i get tired of explaining it.

I don't want this button in the the town build menu! Only creature hire and creature upgrade.

Secondly in combat arena you already supposed to right click the creature or double click for detailed info, I don't want it to look like the designers of the game couldn't decide how to handle the in-combat info. So I don't want it in the combat arena.

I agree the rage button is not same style etc, but it is fast, minimalistic and shows all info in one click and it is only shown in one place. I want those characteristics preserved in whatever you plan to do with it.

On a side note i also think the skillwheel button should be removed from biography section, what is it doing there anyway?

EDIT: Also it is illogical to have a skillwheel button, but not the creature info in the kingdom overview. So I'm open to having them both there, as alternative to having anything in the adventure screen. That way only button 'K' needs to be pressed to check the stats at any moment.

EDIT2: I guess for some windows it may be better to just have a single button implementation instead of the drawer?



Look, nothing is implemented yet, and I wouldn't do anything without agreeing with you. So, I think you should take it easy a little...

So, you want the button at Creature Hire and Creature Upgrade pages, but not the Town Build, or Army and Stats pages...

OK, but hear this: I had planned to include it in the Town Build page, thinking that's when you're about to decide if you want to build the upgrade building or not, and the info provided here can be very useful. Creature Hire and Upgrade screens come into play only after the fact that you built the structure. So, I think you should seriously reconsider having it in the Town Build page.

Without an explicit button, or a button at the Creature Info page (with the 3d model), it will not be accessible at the combat arena... Are you sure that's what you want? Just to confirm it for the last time


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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 02, 2016 07:16 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 19:47, 02 Dec 2016.

magnomagus said:
If the current detailed creature info is lacking then it has to be fixed by adding only the missing info (so a single click screen that only shows the spellbooks, nothing else).


I see what you're saying but what you're asking is basically the same as what I'm preparing with less info (only the spells). So it will look similar but will be different... Don't you think that would be one too many info pages? Wouldn't you rather have a single comprehensive creature info page, which is what I'm preparing?

It's like the Control Panel(s) in Windows 8+ There is the real control panel where you have everything, and then there is the halfwit one for touch screens. At the same time, sigh. I find it very annoying, inconsistent, confusing, and overall totally opposite of user friendly... I know you don't like inconsistency, so...


PS: About the button at Kingdom Overview, the player can access the hire creatures page (which will show the button) from there, so I thought you wouldn't want another button there...

PS2: Would you like to have the button at the "Hire Caravan" pages (from Towns and from Dwellings)?

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strigvir
strigvir


Adventuring Hero
posted December 02, 2016 07:53 PM

magnomagus said:
So what? then open the spellbook. I don't want to turn the UI in a circus of buttons so everyone has everything available at any moment.

And I (and that other guy) don't want to memorize spellbook of every single creature. It's not possible to see the spellbook of enemy caster creatures anyway.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 02, 2016 08:09 PM

Ok i will think about it longer, but i need one detail: if you open the drawer in the hire creatures tab and then switch to the caravan tab (assuming the button also exists there), then i guess it will not have remembered the state of the drawer, since it is another screen??
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 02, 2016 08:42 PM

magnomagus said:
Ok i will think about it longer, but i need one detail: if you open the drawer in the hire creatures tab and then switch to the caravan tab (assuming the button also exists there), then i guess it will not have remembered the state of the drawer, since it is another screen??


That's good question. I intend to make the drawer belong to the higher level screen, called the Hire Creatures screen (including all the tabs you see there), which means the drawer will not close when you switch tabs, until another click to a similar button. I can make all buttons synchronize such that if you open the drawer with one, you can close it by clicking another.

I think this is the desired behavior. Otherwise, it's weird if the drawer keeps disappearing and showing as you switch tabs, and I cannot synchronize the buttons (each button would have their own drawer).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 03, 2016 04:26 PM

Quote:
I can make all buttons synchronize such that if you open the drawer with one, you can close it by clicking another.


This is the best way yes, but I'm afraid it will be impossible to push the buttons on the drawer when the active tab is not the one that initially opened the drawer? So maybe it is better to go back to single button implementation?





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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 03, 2016 05:52 PM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
I can make all buttons synchronize such that if you open the drawer with one, you can close it by clicking another.


...but I'm afraid it will be impossible to push the buttons on the drawer when the active tab is not the one that initially opened the drawer?



No, no, that won't be a problem.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Responsible
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 03, 2016 08:37 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 20:40, 03 Dec 2016.

Alright to keep it simple I'm willing to accept the button goes into creature hire, creature info & the caravan screens, since it will look as if it is one button in the same screen.

This creates a weird situation when the creature info is approached differently, but I will have to look the other way and satisfy the availability in combat.

But I definately don't want it in the town build and also not in the hero army stats tab (since it is already available there through creature info). As you said not kingdom overview for same reason.

For creature upgrade I'm thinking another approach and really implement it as 8 buttons there so there is at least one place it works really fast (but you can shelf this for later and leave it empty, i don't like another drawer there in any case).

Another thing if there are only 7 meaningful columns in one screen i actually think it looks better like this (with maybe exit button on one side and screen switches on the other?):

-[][][]
[][][][]

(interpret the '-' as empty space and assume object is symmetrical)



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