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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Turkey Changes Constitution
Thread: Turkey Changes Constitution This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 17, 2017 10:47 PM

Salamandre said:
France (beside many others) gives every year 150 millions euros to Turkey, in order to economically prepare EU entrance (not including the billions for refugees aid). I wonder when people will wake up and just burn the witches who betrayed them with the EU voodoo.


Source? I'd like to read more about that.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 17, 2017 11:00 PM

EU and Turkey deals in the last 15 years.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted April 18, 2017 01:43 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 02:02, 18 Apr 2017.

OhforfSake said:
The 'funny' thing about these votes in my opinion is the feeling afterwards that many regret what they voted for.
At least that was my impression after the BrExit vote, and perhaps it'd be more interesting if a vote (i.e. ones opinion) could be valid at any moment (like an on/off button) and not only on the day of the vote to see how it changes.

My thought is that if people regret their vote it means they were not properly informed.


Welcome to direct democracy. When you have less than a 55% victory you could take the exact same referendum or election a year later or a year sooner and get different results. The consequences on the other hand, good or bad, of Brexit or Erdoman Empire will affect the entire 21st century.

It's like signing a mortgage that you're not allowed to refinance while drunk and blindfolded and somebody is holding a knife to your pet hamster's throat.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 18, 2017 07:25 AM

Frankly I'm somewhat surprised that there is no 60%+ of "yes" vote given the current environment in Turkey. On the other hand, the reaction is the other countries is the same as after Brexit - "see what the plebes have done" and "all the smart, educated, civilized people voted "no". Pretty sure that if identical referendum was organized in Germany or UK, there would have been a massive propaganda campaign in favour of "no". Double standards and all.

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted April 18, 2017 08:41 AM

Zenofex said:
Pretty sure that if identical referendum was organized in Germany or UK, there would have been a massive propaganda campaign in favour of "no". Double standards and all.

Try all of the EU, Zeno.

any referendum that doesn't fall in line with some dogma would receive a massive smear campaign, no matter the subject of the actual referendum.

We had that a few years back, where people organised a referendum for stopping some changes to the land sale laws, which would allow foreigners to freely purchase land in Lithuania. As well as some changes for the actual referendum laws, mostly to reduce the size of signatures required.
We needed to get 300000 signatures to get it approved. since the very beginning the organisers of the referendum were labeled as "vatniks" and "kremlin agents". and around the same time that this was organised, we had EU parliament elections, as well as presidential elections here. Initially the voting for the referendum was to be set on the same date as the other two. It was changed into a weekend in July, to ensure small attendance(as most were vacationing anyways). as well as a massive smear campaign during the whole time, with main focus on that the referendum will give us straight back to Russia or some bullcrap like that.

The law here states that a referendum is successful only if at least 50% of the voters vote. in this instance, only roughly 15% voted. So, needless to say it was botched.
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Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
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"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted April 18, 2017 09:51 AM

Such a law protected our economy once, some environmentalists wanted to close off a portion of our oil pumps in the sea, but they couldn't reach 50% of the population to vote, so that's that.

We had our own constitutional referendum back in December, the lefties are still salty that their wonder boy couldn't convince us to ditch the senate and further bind us to the EU.
A shame that they basically tried to hold us at ransom, since there were two points that I really would have loved to get passed, less parliamentaries and the abolition of a useless organization that is somehow coded in our constitution but is never actually used and costs us quite a lot.
Funnily enough, that reform would have given more powers to the president too, but no one seemed to care about that, actually, the EU wanted us to pass that, as I liked to say at the time, I hope it passed and then either the 5 stars or Lega Nord won the election, and then we would see why we had such a mess in place.

It's worrying when such things happen, especially considering the character of Erdogan, we already saw the repression of the opposition back when the coup happened, now what?

I hope he can be contained if things go awry, Paisos looms in the air...
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 18, 2017 10:41 AM

Soviet Republic of Poland approves these changes
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted April 18, 2017 10:41 AM

Zenofex said:
On the other hand, the reaction is the other countries is the same as after Brexit - "see what the plebes have done" and "all the smart, educated, civilized people voted "no".


Yes, economic suicide isn't worth role-playing as William Wallace for "muh freedom" from "EU tyranny". Britain already had a special status of "I do what the bloody hell I want" in the EU, and now they even have the nerve to say how "oppressed" they were. Absolutely rubbish.

On the other hand, seeing how EU was spoon-feeding Sultan Erdogan, makes me have second thoughts. But still, the only way Europe can keep up with monolithic powers like USA, Russia and China is some sort of union, but what can you expect from a bunch of countries that hated each other with a burning passion, let's breakdown the EU and act like we were in middle ages, a bunch of feudal lands and city states that wage war against their neighbors, even if they speak the same language. Yes, EU kinda fell on the other side, it's European union, not American, not Asian, not Middle Eastern, not African, so not afghan, not Moroccan, not Syrian, and certainly not an American Colony.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 18, 2017 11:11 AM

if you mean keeping the actual EU, which wastes billions from our taxes to keep under perfusion Romania, Turkey and whatever and then neither in Romania or Turkey there are no symptoms of going better, but all the way much worse, then yes is rubbish. Romania is the EU country receiving the biggest aid yet my parents on place saw their income vanish and life price explode. The national debt per head in France is now at 44k euros and the whole taxes collected can't even pay the interests of it, yet we keep handing a 9 billion euros present to the EU, each year. The only winner are the banks.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 18, 2017 11:38 AM

Salamandre said:
The only winner are the banks.


Seems like they are starting to gently panic though. Fingers crossed for our elections in France that Macron doesn't make it.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 18, 2017 12:54 PM

To make it clear, the fact that Erdogan got what he wanted (again) is not a good thing at all. He's becoming more and more dangerous and unpredictable which combined with extra legitimate power works in nobody's favour, internally and externally. The way such referendums are treated by the "democratic community" however is disgusting - they are only good as long as they lead to the results which suit the status quo and the mainstream political conjuncture. Otherwise democracy is no longer the heavenly gift for mankind but a tool for the mindless urges of the peasantry which can't make a proper choice without the guidance of the enlightened elite. Yeah...

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted April 18, 2017 03:21 PM
Edited by frostysh at 15:32, 18 Apr 2017.

Zenofex said:
To make it clear, the fact that Erdogan got what he wanted (again) is not a good thing at all. He's becoming more and more dangerous and unpredictable which combined with extra legitimate power works in nobody's favour, internally and externally. The way such referendums are treated by the "democratic community" however is disgusting - they are only good as long as they lead to the results which suit the status quo and the mainstream political conjuncture. Otherwise democracy is no longer the heavenly gift for mankind but a tool for the mindless urges of the peasantry which can't make a proper choice without the guidance of the enlightened elite. Yeah...
Despite of nonsense about Democracy (not the Democracy like in Ancient Times, which connected to the modern Democracy perhaps only by name) -  mr Zenofex is particularly saying true <imho>:

Concentration public Authority ====) Polarization of Society Followers/Opposition (example from Syria trough Egypt, Ukraine, and so on) ====) One single radical move of this public Authority, and the State is destabilize and if 'support' by strong guys (US, SU, CPR, etc) from the outside is involved ====) almost 70% that is it Game Over for this state and the total mess and rivers of blood started.

About Democracy (Modern Democracy with all right involved + Capitalism, etc):

1) This is a system designed to be effective in terms of organization of the large amount of peoples in the particular territory, that counting many different factors, Modern level of Scientific progress, Genetic Instincts of humans, Society Evolution, etc.

2) This is the only one System which is survived trough mankind History and which is confirmed to be still effective in the reality, in practice, but not in the crazy dreams of somebody.

3) It's never was a "heavenly gift", it was a result of the bloody like hell evolution of mankind, of the Heuristic stuff, a many attempts and even more fails, and uncountable amount of victims, etc - this is the conditions where Democracy born.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted April 18, 2017 05:34 PM

His username is Zenofex. Not "Mr Zenofex".
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