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Heroes Community > Summoners Academy > Thread: Dungeon chat
Thread: Dungeon chat This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 08, 2017 06:19 PM

Monana said:
Bragjul said:
So again back to my suggestion I previously stated a long time ago: please stop allowing incomplete creatures in wave 1.


Please don't limit the way we play the game anymore than you already have. If we want dead waves, let us have it.


Pretty sure the game isn't intended to be played in a situation where your creatures are stunned for 6 turns consecutively. Defensive creatures are by design supposed to be limited to a two turns stun or mass stun. This isn't a 'way of playing', this is an exploit.
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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted September 08, 2017 06:33 PM

Galaad said:

Pretty sure the game isn't intended to be played in a situation where your creatures are stunned for 6 turns consecutively. Defensive creatures are by design supposed to be limited to a two turns stun or mass stun. This isn't a 'way of playing', this is an exploit.


Exactly!

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted September 08, 2017 06:45 PM

Oh come on Galaad, you know that the mass stun exploit is the only way to get any decent defense rate, without it you'll keep losing the prestige you amassed. The mass stun defence only appeared after they blew up the 3 waves set, a set that was not an exploit at all.

Today, either you use the stun strategy, either you end up with 7% def rate and I'm sorry you are the one unhappy with this rate.

Imo only one simple solution, give us back the epic in wave one, at least for gold tier, and redefine how players are divided into tiers, as I still see players in gold that have absolutely nothing to do there.
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 08, 2017 09:12 PM

AlHazin said:
mass stun exploit is the only way to get any decent defense rate


This is only partially true, previous weeks I could encounter some normal 5 waves dungeons that were doing better than the 7/12 ones. I even lost a couple of fights to them. But they are very rare. Most of players being able to make a half-filled dungeon will do so, but from my experience these only work reliably with 4 dots, 3 dots can be quick enough depending on RNG but most of the times it isn't.

Quote:
The mass stun defence only appeared after they blew up the 3 waves set, a set that was not an exploit at all.


I agree the original 3 waves template was fine and it was a relief to finally see months of farming paying off, but perma stun was also there: don't you remember the 4 dots Roos with Frog and Blue Drake?
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Monana
Monana

Tavern Dweller
posted September 08, 2017 09:56 PM

AlHazin said:
Oh come on Galaad, you know that the mass stun exploit is the only way to get any decent defense rate, without it you'll keep losing the prestige you amassed. The mass stun defence only appeared after they blew up the 3 waves set, a set that was not an exploit at all.

Today, either you use the stun strategy, either you end up with 7% def rate and I'm sorry you are the one unhappy with this rate.

Imo only one simple solution, give us back the epic in wave one, at least for gold tier, and redefine how players are divided into tiers, as I still see players in gold that have absolutely nothing to do there.


Yes the old templar meta was great! Don't know why they would change it.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted September 08, 2017 11:26 PM

Galaad said:
This is only partially true, previous weeks I could encounter some normal 5 waves dungeons that were doing better than the 7/12 ones. I even lost a couple of fights to them. But they are very rare. Most of players being able to make a half-filled dungeon will do so, but from my experience these only work reliably with 4 dots, 3 dots can be quick enough depending on RNG but most of the times it isn't.


And that's the problem, 3 dots are not enough to ensure your defensive strategy will work. Honestly, if I had enough 4 dots to fill my dungeon, I would do it, but as long as I don't, I'll surely not feed attackers on mana on wave 1.

Galaad said:
I agree the original 3 waves template was fine and it was a relief to finally see months of farming paying off, but perma stun was also there: don't you remember the 4 dots Roos with Frog and Blue Drake?


Yes, but those were rare, it is impossible to farm the blue drake, and when large essences didn't exist few would have used greater essences on them. As for frog and Kangaroo, they are somehow manageable. If I recall well you eventually found a brakethrough to those blue drake sets. Plus let's not forget that while templar is (was...) a strudy defender, the blue drake is quite squeeshy and dies very easily against a yellow legend, especially with a quick combo chain.

I agree with you though, dungeon still needs to be seen by devs, especially concerning the stun feature.
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 09, 2017 12:45 AM
Edited by Galaad at 00:48, 09 Sep 2017.

AlHazin said:
And that's the problem, 3 dots are not enough to ensure your defensive strategy will work.


Well again it depends, for instance one of my first waves, the one you tried, has only three dots, and it worked. For the 7/12 ones 4 dots are much more mandatory, especially on the Epics.

Quote:
If I recall well you eventually found a brakethrough to those blue drake sets. Plus let's not forget that while templar is (was...) a strudy defender, the blue drake is quite squeeshy and dies very easily against a yellow legend, especially with a quick combo chain.


Honestly, with the old template, everyone had this:

- Ornithopter x2 or Ornithopter + Butterfly
- Light Elemental or Green or (yes rarer) Blue Drake
- Two Roos and a Frog.

These were really tough, but also boring as repetitive (kinda like the current 7/12).

And well, about any blue will be squishy against it's comboed off-color.
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted September 09, 2017 12:46 AM
Edited by Brukernavn at 00:48, 09 Sep 2017.

Full dungeons can be very strong, they just need time and better statistics to optimize properly. But why do that when you can have a dead wave and the next filled with stunners and still do very well?

The old 3 wave template with an epic in first wave might have been good, but you would not see the same def rates now if they brought it back. Back then no one had specials ready after the first round, as so many have now. Resurrecting units were not as common, especially not two on the same team. What was it, three smalls, two medium and one epic? Now we can have six mediums in first wave. That should be harder to beat with the right synergy of creatures.

Anyway, I don't think they intended to make dead wave dungeons even harder than they were before, now with three epics instead of two, lol. The point was to reward delevopement of many creatures to fill as many dungeons as possible for the bonuses, supported by kingdom buffs. But given how powerful stun is against attacking creatures, and almost no stunning mediums, I don't see any incentive to do that at the moment.

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted September 09, 2017 11:05 AM

AlHazin said:
Oh come on Galaad, you know that the mass stun exploit is the only way to get any decent defense rate, without it you'll keep losing the prestige you amassed. The mass stun defence only appeared after they blew up the 3 waves set, a set that was not an exploit at all.


Wake up man, dungeon 2.0 is here!!

Did you even tried building a dungeon with this new mechanics? You have no clue about how strong could this be, the new bonuses can really make a difference in obtaining a better defense percentage.

Oh well you didn't had time to try it because probably you were to busy enjoying your empty wave 1 overused exploit copy-paste "strategy".


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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted September 09, 2017 12:09 PM
Edited by Galaad at 15:00, 09 Sep 2017.

Haha this is harsh from you, son of Priapos.

To be fair my stunning dungeon doesn't work like intended, and the def rates are still rather weak. And just like I explained earlier, as long as you don't have enough 3d/4d to fill your dungeon with, you're doomed without epic in w 1.

I would like to have one or now multiple filled dungeons, but heh, RNG didn't allow me to do so. All in all we'll see how the 2.0 does, and plan accordingly.
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted September 09, 2017 01:05 PM
Edited by Galaad at 15:01, 09 Sep 2017.

AlHazin said:

Haha this is harsh from you, son of Priapos.

To be fair my stunning dungeon doesn't work like intended, and the def rates are still rather weak. And just like I explained earlier, as long as you don't have enough 3d/4d to fill your dungeon with, you're doomed without epic in w 1.

I would like to have one or now multiple filled dungeons, but heh, RNG didn't allow me to do so. All in all we'll see how the 2.0 does, and plan accordingly.


Well, son of Pothos, don't be so hasty in stating that the mass stun exploit is the only way to get a decent defense. Instead of that take into consideration all the upcoming changes. To be more specific, events that guarantee a 3 dot or 4 dot small/medium creatures should be enough to surpass the RNG badluck and helping up building a defense 'by the rules' fair and square.


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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted September 09, 2017 01:24 PM

No no, you seem to theorize a bit much and forget the practical reality. Until, event or not, I get enough valuable creatures to properly fill a dungeon, I shall dead wave, like top players do, rather than filling a trash dungeon that will allow you and the others mana feast.

Indeed the stunlock is the most viable way to defend at this day, the proof is you are ranting to the devs to disarm that feature.
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted September 09, 2017 02:26 PM

AlHazin said:
No no, you seem to theorize a bit much and forget the practical reality. Until, event or not, I get enough valuable creatures to properly fill a dungeon, I shall dead wave, like top players do, rather than filling a trash dungeon that will allow you and the others mana feast.

Indeed the stunlock is the most viable way to defend at this day, the proof is you are ranting to the devs to disarm that feature.


Well then enjoy it while you can, it will be disabled soon

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted September 10, 2017 01:06 PM

Presently and in the past the same type of mistake with dungeons has been made.

- The 3-wave light ellemental + ornithopters + frog + kangaroos, while this was very annoying, everyone had a decent chance of collecting this collection (I still don't got a 3 dot frog at lvl 300 or any 4 dots xcept for the LE but sure).

The Templar meta was pure trash, either you were lucky enough to get a 4-dot templar (or multiple) or you tried getting it non-stop but didn't get it and then you were doomed to have a trash dungeon.

Then the old 7/12 meta came, which was also terrible but beatable, I build especially a team that would charge a specialty after killing the first weak creature, allowing me to kill the templar in one hit.

But the current 7/12 meta abuses the perma-stun even more which is so lame and certainly not needed, with the kingdom buffs there are also proper full dungeons with some of the bonuses if you set it up well.

Kingdoms also brings it's problems, I like the style and idea, but some people (that have no trouble investing a lot) seem to have like a level 20 kingdom already, How is beyond my knowledge, even if I rush scrolls I can't get close enough and scrolls in campaigns are very rare, is this the ultimate definition of win 2 play? boost epics to full health, abuse stuns and win every defence? Hey, let's top it off with a VERY important creature to win in the challenge, and make sure that only the people that do have the resources for a full kingdom in the first week can win a 4-dot one.

/rant over

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 10, 2017 01:12 PM

markmasters said:
But the current 7/12 meta abuses the perma-stun even more which is so lame and certainly not needed, with the kingdom buffs there are also proper full dungeons with some of the bonuses if you set it up well.


Yeah Brukernavn covered it pretty well, I hope developers look into this for next challenge.

I am very close to be able to fulfill three dungeons and get the MUCH NOTICEABLE color boost, but for me I think it is safer that I keep it to one dungeon for now, not 100% sure though. Btw it's funny how many people run with trash dungeons just to get the Boss stun immunity.
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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted September 10, 2017 01:17 PM

Galaad said:
markmasters said:
But the current 7/12 meta abuses the perma-stun even more which is so lame and certainly not needed, with the kingdom buffs there are also proper full dungeons with some of the bonuses if you set it up well.


Yeah Brukernavn covered it pretty well, I hope developers look into this for next challenge.

I am very close to be able to fulfill three dungeons and get the MUCH NOTICEABLE color boost, but for me I think it is safer that I keep it to one dungeon for now, not 100% sure though. Btw it's funny how many people run with trash dungeons just to get the Boss stun immunity.


Well if you manage to get 3 very strong dungeons ans 2 absolute trash it would still mean that you can get a 60% defence rate...I can see some hail in it, if you succesfully defend a strong dungeon with an immune boss it's very hard to clear I can imagine

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 10, 2017 01:29 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:30, 10 Sep 2017.

There is one dungeon I don't seem to be able to beat. My healer is a 10 essences Astral and there was not a single dark creature in the wave. I got annihilated in wave 1, twice. So it IS possible now to get great defense.
Farming takes a whole new level and along with Kingdoms there is very few creatures now you won't find a use for.
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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted September 10, 2017 04:46 PM

What do you think about keping the same dungeon bonuses for two weeks instead of one?

This way it will allow us to farm a few extra needed creatures of the right color.
For example i need 3 more decent medium creatures fully awaken in order to go for the 3 dungeon bonus. But I dont have time in a week to farm all the awakening duplicates...

Best strategies are born from trial and error, so my proposal would be to keep the one week countdown for the event but change only the epic/legendary creature at the end of the week and keep the same rules(same dungeon bonuses) for 2 weeks before changing, give it some time to settle

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 10, 2017 06:37 PM

Bragjul said:
What do you think about keping the same dungeon bonuses for two weeks instead of one?


That would be too long, I like the variety. Plus it's all logical the color boost is aligned with the creature to win in challenge.
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Antalex
Antalex


Hired Hero
posted September 11, 2017 11:38 PM

Markmasters said:
@galaad, at 3 wave dungeons with only 1 creature on wave one: forget about healers, and bring team that supports one stunner (i got fire giant). Make sure the stunnervis supplied with enough mana for a special after one hit

Stun either beetle or drake depening on which special goes off first....i never lose this way.

Sure took some rerolls but worth it



Well, that's the trick.

But having a stunner that charge on one shot is difficult.

I have only 1 legendary stunner (medusa 4dots full totemed) and it does not charge in 1 hit, neither with mystic tome...

So, is a 90% loss with these dungeons :-(
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