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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: New Heroes IV Era! Making new resources!
Thread: New Heroes IV Era! Making new resources! This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 23, 2017 02:56 AM

Well, remember we still have compression.

I am not sure if .h4r compresses but if not, surely the .zip/.rar does

Soem mods for other games have gigabytes of data, and h7 even had a 3 gb patch

While people such as me have a bad time and huge problems with internet speed, I don't think that's such a big problem for most others. My mod is like 30 mb, but it could easily be over 100 mb if that really helped...

And I think town screens are a good point graphically speaking. If we can't improve the game mechanics, at least improve it's looks :V

(But I hope petition can still be started for H3 & H4 source code, I'm just starving in real life so I don't have as much focus)

***

Anyways, back to the topic, has anyone tried to open these "layout" files?
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Roman2211
Roman2211

Tavern Dweller
posted September 23, 2017 05:56 AM
Edited by Roman2211 at 05:57, 23 Sep 2017.

H3 source code is not in ubisoft, they stated about this in an interview when released H3 HD Edition, and why do you need it?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 23, 2017 06:06 AM

AFAIk they only said they lacked one of the expansions, that is why the HD edition doesn't support Shadow of Death. SO they have the base game.

Well I myself don't need it that much but H3 modders do. VCMI spent years trying to recreate/reimplement the source code and their work could be massively simplified, for instance.

And H4 is obvious... without source code, modding is severely hampered because of the huge parts of the game that are stringently hardcoded.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2017 08:05 AM

Try keep order. Dont discuss in this thread about Ubi, HIII etc.
...

I dont think that you can compress HIV def. Compression is 0 %or 3% because DEF IS COMPRESSED! Its indexed raw! 0000 are cutted! It cant be compressed more without losing data. If mod will be bigger and bigger its hard and hard find long time upload site...

I checked. Must be always 1280 size. Its only for 1024 and 800 resizing. Nothing more. If game dont have pic its hole and I see map. So it must be 6 x 8 = 50 MB. Giving 8 x the same pic is extremly unprofitable. 87,5% size of mod is for nothing.
We must think is it sense to build 50 MB mod only for town pics when 8 pics are the same only ground another, or maybe plus modding buildings 200 MB or more?, if you see on this pic only for a moment to recruit units?
I think better is giving new map objects and new units. Town look needs very big size...
Its HIV! Mission impossible.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 23, 2017 09:54 AM

I'll try to open the 'layout' files tomorrow. Else I'll ask if Dalai could share them with us.

As for modding sizes, it's not that I disagree with Baronus, but I think we all have our own focus points, and who are we to tell someone they shouldn't spend time doing +48 new town screens if that's their desire? What other's choose to download and if some mod appears too big for some, that each individuals decision. Even with objects I'm sure not all new objects would fit into everyone's idea or project. You can't expect modders to focus on a common project or have the same prioriry, just saying.

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted September 23, 2017 11:12 AM

NimoStar said:
Anyways, back to the topic, has anyone tried to open these "layout" files?


I tried open and export the Death town layouts and it worked for me without any problem. Only the 'layers.town.death.layout.lay' needed about a minute to open.

But the machine what I used is like a nuclear power station compared to my home PC... Also I used a custom h4r file to do this what contained only these layout files.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2017 11:32 AM

Yes all can have own point of viev. I will not certainly download 200 GB mod if only content will be moving one building 5 px left second 4 px right third 6 px up... Absurd. Im very pro new screens are very needed ONLY question is a size 50 MB and big work for only in fact 6 pics in 8 options.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 23, 2017 03:38 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 15:39, 23 Sep 2017.

Quote:
But the machine what I used is like a nuclear power station compared to my home PC... Also I used a custom h4r file to do this what contained only these layout files.


Well my machine is jus 2 GB RAM with 1.4 GHZ processor and it does wen trying to open them. The process is very inefficient otherwise it should take many minutes to open a 1.4 mb file. I open 1.4 MB images in image editing programs without much trouble.

I also didn't even use a h4r file, I just opened the extracted file directly.

I would say that if anyone can do this, that they build a .zip file with the extracted layout files as .ORA (unmodified) and then share them with us.

Quote:
Yes all can have own point of viev. I will not certainly download 200 GB mod if only content will be moving one building 5 px left second 4 px right third 6 px up... Absurd. Im very pro new screens are very needed ONLY question is a size 50 MB and big work for only in fact 6 pics in 8 options.


Well I woudn't use them to move 6 pixels the building. Fact is these files are necessary to make completely new town screens, or recreating H3/2/5/whatever townscreens. If we can open the layout file then any townscreen is possible. If not, then we are practically limited to the "h4 look"; that many people (specially those that play other heroes games) don't like.


***

Plus, in H3 there are 50 MB mods just to add more adventure object looks.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2017 04:01 PM

Yes but in HIII 50 MB gives 200 or more objects! Not 6. New city is very good idea but it must be big not like 10 MB city in HIII.

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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 23, 2017 04:37 PM

What if there was an installator that copies the same townscreens and renames them accordingly directly on somebodies computer? That way the file to download would be eight times smaller for the townscreens.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 23, 2017 05:07 PM

If we talk programming it would be better to find where this is controlled in the .exe ad hex edit it accordingly so that all the enviroment townscreens rediect to the same file, this way you woudn't have copy redundancy.

But I would still like to try the Enviroment concept. People from H3 complain but they have been doing the same as mods: Sand tower, Autumn Rampart, Winter Castle... don't tell me this is not the same H4 concept applied to H3, because it is.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Jonny Come Sometime
posted September 23, 2017 06:09 PM

NimoStar said:
But I would still like to try the Enviroment concept. People from H3 complain but they have been doing the same as mods: Sand tower, Autumn Rampart, Winter Castle... don't tell me this is not the same H4 concept applied to H3, because it is.


albeit it's not quite the same dontchaknow mate, after all those H3 mods totally change the buildings and everything else to create a new vision of the townscreen, they do not have to juggle the Chinese plates so to speak by being stuck with only one version of the buildings to account for eight different possibles landscapes cheers lol
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2017 07:43 PM

Hard to talk. Maybe some inspired. Sand tower maybe. But winter auntum are not a terrains.
I dont told thats bad but BIG :-)
They should given 8 backgrouns depended on terrain and thats all! All city with own building. And give more towns :-) If its 11 types of heroes in fact 16 x 2 models with addons in this case 16 faction will be possible.
1. Solution. Installer with 8x the same... I think that if you use 7zip it compress 8x! Maybe download file will be 6 MB! 8x the same. ONLY IF THE SAME!!! So this file will be small. I dont know how big is compresion in h4r? Maybe it is 6 MB too. If yes WE HAVE SOLUTION! I must check.
2. Solution modding exe. The best but we dont how its programmed.
So for now I must check 8x the same option in h4r. How big it is?

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted September 23, 2017 08:17 PM

NimoStar said:
I would say that if anyone can do this, that they build a .zip file with the extracted layout files as .ORA (unmodified) and then share them with us.


So here's a link to all exported town layers:

https://www.4shared.com/rar/PjFCG-erca/Town_Layers.html

I hope it survived the process...

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 24, 2017 03:47 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 15:48, 24 Sep 2017.

Quote:
albeit it's not quite the same dontchaknow mate, after all those H3 mods totally change the buildings and everything else to create a new vision of the townscreen, they do not have to juggle the Chinese plates so to speak by being stuck with only one version of the buildings to account for eight different possibles landscapes cheers lol


While techically of course you are right, I have seen the buildings and they are almost the same in almost all cases...

The H4 terrains can have overlays as different layers that can appear in front of the building pics. Underground Asylum has over 8 layers. Just that this isn't used to full extent in the vainilla game, because most use it only for small details or not at all (which is logical on workload given the sheer number of 8ambients*6towns)

Also, it is not necessary strictly that it be eight. With installer programming as they were saying here, we could have two or three variations per town.

Quote:
But winter auntum are not a terrains.


In game function they are the same as terrains, except that there is only one version since H3 engine can't handle more.

Quote:
So here's a link to all exported town layers:

https://www.4shared.com/rar/PjFCG-erca/Town_Layers.html

I hope it survived the process...


Lol thank you. I hope so too. I will probably just try it after wendsday since I have exams in university. And I hope trying to import them doesn't trigger the same errors :V

Anyways I m also trying to get a better computer to work.
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 24, 2017 05:48 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 17:58, 24 Sep 2017.

Ah you beat me to it Radmutant. Otherwise Dalai shared them here in tga format, townscreens and faction layouts (buildings).
Layers.

You can view the layers in Namerutan's tool. Try viewing Life layout and choose composirion as view mode, then you'll see how the images are set up, so their placement is likely stored in each image.

If anyone plans to redo all town screens, you could try contacting the equilibris team. apart from asking for extended town screens for the hd mod (those are already made btw), Dalai proposed the alternative of adding new ones. Just wanted to mention this.

As for the season screens, all townscreens share the same building image/position, so unless you can find a way to seperate them, I don't think you can have a snow covered fort and a autum fort etc. in any of the town screens. It would be either or.

As for the sizes, they're about 1 MB each as uncompressed lay file, so approx. 50 MB (48 screens) before compression (Baronus was right, resolutions just get downscaled from 1280x825, so only 8 needed pr. Town).

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 25, 2017 03:46 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 04:51, 25 Sep 2017.

Quote:
As for the season screens, all townscreens share the same building image/position, so unless you can find a way to seperate them, I don't think you can have a snow covered fort and a autum fort etc. in any of the town screens. It would be either or.


Not necessary. The "snow covering" can already be in the upper layers in the town screen, and the fort just should appear behind them (partially shrouded), for example in or before a mountain. This is the theory, but otherwise multiple layers would have no reason to exist.

Quote:
You can view the layers in Namerutan's tool. Try viewing Life layout and choose composirion as view mode, then you'll see how the images are set up, so their placement is likely stored in each image.


I know it is stored there on layouts, that was my point (baronus though it was on exe). Problem is my pc can't even open them.

Quote:
Ah you beat me to it Radmutant. Otherwise Dalai shared them here in tga format, townscreens and faction layouts (buildings).


Problem is that new .ora from existing files don't work to import, only old exported ones and their edits.


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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 25, 2017 07:52 AM

I checked it and:
6 x 8 the same backgrounds gives only 3,3 MB 7z file! But 48 others gives 22 MB.
Unpacked h4r gives always the same value 22-23 MB because its must have all single picture.
So I suggest NOT 6 backs for cities but 8 for terrains! 8 x 6 the same. It gives 4,4 MB pack with h4r.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2017 11:21 PM

NimoStar said:
Quote:
As for the season screens, all townscreens share the same building image/position, so unless you can find a way to seperate them, I don't think you can have a snow covered fort and a autum fort etc. in any of the town screens. It would be either or.

Not necessary. The "snow covering" can already be in the upper layers in the town screen, and the fort just should appear behind them (partially shrouded), for example in or before a mountain. This is the theory, but otherwise multiple layers would have no reason to exist.


I read your reply about this after I posted mine. I get your idea, but still Death and Might doesn't have any foreground layers and the rest only have a few, and not nessecarily the same. Also the number of foreground layers differ from like 8 to 18. My point is, if these foreground layers are read by the exe as all other stuff, how will you add the rest? Or perhaps you'd just stick with the existing?


Quote:
You can view the layers in Namerutan's tool. Try viewing Life layout and choose composirion as view mode, then you'll see how the images are set up, so their placement is likely stored in each image.

I know it is stored there on layouts, that was my point (baronus though it was on exe). Problem is my pc can't even open them.


Quote:
Ah you beat me to it Radmutant. Otherwise Dalai shared them here in tga format, townscreens and faction layouts (buildings).


Problem is that new .ora from existing files don't work to import, only old exported ones and their edits.



Hmmm... Well I posted the townscreens on CH as jpg, and Dalai stated that Max saved and imported those, but I don't know if they used the tool or a method similar to Baronus'.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 27, 2017 08:37 PM

Quote:
I read your reply about this after I posted mine. I get your idea, but still Death and Might doesn't have any foreground layers and the rest only have a few, and not nessecarily the same. Also the number of foreground layers differ from like 8 to 18. My point is, if these foreground layers are read by the exe as all other stuff, how will you add the rest? Or perhaps you'd just stick with the existing?


Hm.

My theory is that the .exe just reads the file as a whole, this is the only way things like the screens for stores (where you buy equipment) can be different because of layer names; this is also used on Equilibris to change the artifacts on town stores.

So you can add layers no problem, if I am correct.

You could even add "weather effects" layers like a town with buildings obscured by mist, a sandstorm, etc. something that would be impossible in regular H3 since AFAIK they don't have a variable alpha channel (our images are PNG-like, theirs are GIF-like)

Quote:
Hmmm... Well I posted the townscreens on CH as jpg, and Dalai stated that Max saved and imported those, but I don't know if they used the tool or a method similar to Baronus'.


JPG is a lossy format... I would not trust those imports much then :V

Anyways, you can paste any image in the exported .ora

If you have all screens exported into a non-.lossy format like TGA, then by all means please post them.
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