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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How strong is Adela ?
Thread: How strong is Adela ? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 27, 2020 04:42 PM

Heroes IV was still created by 3DO, then they went bankrupt.
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Antaeus
Antaeus

Tavern Dweller
posted August 27, 2020 06:10 PM
Edited by Antaeus at 00:17, 28 Aug 2020.

FirePaladin said:
Yes, they are.




I downloaded the HotA and played a little.
Yes it is always fun playing a new town.
However my first impression is that is not as good as the old game (game overview, clarity of the map, and movement) the old version feels a lot better and then it is really irritating that I cannot scroll over the map and move the map with my mouse as usual.


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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 28, 2020 07:17 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:37, 28 Aug 2020.

The bad part about HotA in competitive is Creature Bank based metagame and that Fortress is nerfed because of it (they used to have wyvern advantage)

Anyways, about Adele, her Bless is very powerful, and unreformed diplomacy DOES beat everything,

but late game, as she's magic hero, she will get a lot of useless spell power and knowledge.

Thus, Ryland from Rampart is probably better because he's a Might hero, even if his specialty isn't nearly as useful (still not bad for the +1 speed to dendroids)

Ryland extra attack and defense even helps diplomacy from the stacks, while extra knowledge and spells don't help it (to me, this is game programming oversight since one would think stronger knowledge and magic is actually better for a diplomat...)

In a not-XXL map Ryland with joiners and old diplomacy will probably beat both Tazar and Crag Hack, if the game doesn't draw too long.

Adele may have too much disadvantage in high levels because of low base attack and defense, and she will also level less because less creatures will fight her. So unless she gets some UBER artifact advantage to compensate (such as Helm of Heavenly Enliughtment and Sword of Judgement). Since she will dominate the map faster with diplomacy, this is not out of the question.

Adele's bless levels will be affected by her lower levelling.
Recomendation to level Adele is to fight Banks, which have creatures that never join, but their numbers are low compared to high level stacks (even Dragon Utopia). This will also help to get artifact and resource advantage.

Another great advantage is Hill Fort to upgrade her joined creatures.
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Antaeus
Antaeus

Tavern Dweller
posted August 28, 2020 12:34 PM

NimoStar said:
The bad part about HotA in competitive is Creature Bank based metagame and that Fortress is nerfed because of it (they used to have wyvern advantage)

Anyways, about Adele, her Bless is very powerful, and unreformed diplomacy DOES beat everything,

but late game, as she's magic hero, she will get a lot of useless spell power and knowledge.

Thus, Ryland from Rampart is probably better because he's a Might hero, even if his specialty isn't nearly as useful (still not bad for the +1 speed to dendroids)

Ryland extra attack and defense even helps diplomacy from the stacks, while extra knowledge and spells don't help it (to me, this is game programming oversight since one would think stronger knowledge and magic is actually better for a diplomat...)

In a not-XXL map Ryland with joiners and old diplomacy will probably beat both Tazar and Crag Hack, if the game doesn't draw too long.

Adele may have too much disadvantage in high levels because of low base attack and defense, and she will also level less because less creatures will fight her. So unless she gets some UBER artifact advantage to compensate (such as Helm of Heavenly Enliughtment and Sword of Judgement). Since she will dominate the map faster with diplomacy, this is not out of the question.

Adele's bless levels will be affected by her lower levelling.
Recomendation to level Adele is to fight Banks, which have creatures that never join, but their numbers are low compared to high level stacks (even Dragon Utopia). This will also help to get artifact and resource advantage.

Another great advantage is Hill Fort to upgrade her joined creatures.


Diplomacy is best in the start and the early middle game, later the army is normally stronger than most creature stacks what will join and most join in is not interesting enough. However you can be lucky that there are creatures from your town or another very strong creature stack will join.

And then diplomacy is a lot stronger if you can combine it with vision or rogues so you know which creatures that will join. I normally got a second hero very close to a diplomacy hero due to then there are always the possibility that I can give some creatures to the second hero so there is space for a join in my diplomacy hero. Diplomacy is very strong, but you should also be lucky. I still remember my lost to a necromancer with Adele. It was a person vs person and we met very early in the game. I think I got ONE good join before we met and probably only up to level 3 or 4 creatures, however the necromancer already got more than 400 skeletons (I still don't know how it was possible that quick?). I had no chance at all.

The magic heroes are normally very strong in the start, however later you need strong magic to win like expert implosion, expert beserk, expert amageddon for dungeon heroes (or that he doesn't got expert earth, water, wind or fire magic). Or you find some good artifacts or good joins if you are a dimplomacy hero. However you may be unlucky that the might hero got the Recanter's Cloak or the Orb of Inhibition or high resistance.

And then there is of course expert dimension door, fly, and town portal (so unfair).

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 29, 2020 10:11 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 22:14, 29 Aug 2020.

Most of that relies on having the correct secondary skill, tho; magic power is irrelevant for Town Portal or Dimension Door (maybe Dimension Door should have allowed 1 point of movement for spell power point?), knowledge is only limitedly relevant since might heroes can still recharge spell points on wells, magic springs, mana vortex...

Diplomacy may be best in the eraly game but its advantage is so huge that, unless artificial barriers are placed, there *won't* be a late game at all. But even if there is, stuff like clearing garrisons, towns, monsters, banks, etc. faster in the early game can easily lead to a snowball effect that lets you have a definitive advantage in resources and artifacts, that matters even in the longest games, such as getting the pieces for Cloak of the Undead King before your opponent.

And lastly, I agree something like Kyrre with diplomacy is deadly and better than Ryland; however, in the Kyrre case diplomacy isn't guaranteed, while in Ryland it is since the start (where it is more important)

[This leads me to imagine a sophisticated fan town faction of diplomats with an university-inspired building where your heroes can learn diplomacy, learning, navigation and scouting for 2000 gold each :V, too bad VCMI doesn't allow special buildings...]
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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted August 30, 2020 11:18 PM
Edited by evildustructor at 23:22, 30 Aug 2020.

u guys still know magic heroes >>>>>> might heroes in hota right? depending on template ofc but intelligence is still a good skill after it was nerfed by half and theres no inhib orb

Doomforge said:
Adela's niche was always getting mass tier 1-2-3 with joiners and rushing. Now that diplo was nerfed to crap tier by HOTA, there's no reason to pick her anymore, sadly.


still totally useable in castle mirrors w haart banned or larger maps like 6lm just by having wisdom and bless, diplo is still argueably better than stuff like sorcery and sorcery heroes are still somewhat useable as well in certain cases

adela is still a better pick than stuff like loynis, ofc people usually choose tyris for tacs but shes totally viable. bless spec is good as a side hero as well on nymphs etc

even tho diplo is a meme skill its still clutch in 10% of the games and might actually come in handy lategame, its just that most games end before diplo comes online

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 31, 2020 11:45 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 11:46, 31 Aug 2020.

First off, this forum isn't about hota that's in 3.5

But anyways "no inhibition orb" is not nearly ewnough to make magic heroes good in late game or large battles, the 5% damage from just 1 extra attack will offset using Implosion, so.

Just look at the damage formulas, they are flat; there is no way magic can compete without some massive balance realignement.
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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2020 01:26 AM
Edited by evildustructor at 02:14, 01 Sep 2020.

also @ the guy who was new to hota, you can change the settings in the launcher menu to be able to scroll with mouse again, it's just a resolution thing you should really try it out, didnt like it either at first but really is the greatest thing to happen to h3 after i initially got used to it

NimoStar said:
First off, this forum isn't about hota that's in 3.5

But anyways "no inhibition orb" is not nearly ewnough to make magic heroes good in late game or large battles, the 5% damage from just 1 extra attack will offset using Implosion, so.

Just look at the damage formulas, they are flat; there is no way magic can compete without some massive balance realignement.


im sure somethings weird then cuz over half of the posts i read on this subforum is about either hota or suggestions of how the vanilla game should be changed, and the 3.5 forum is half about era stuff and unfinished weird ideas

but yeah if we're talking about sod then adela suddenly is broken just because of starting diplo, you will 100% of the time start adela if playing sod anarchy just to snowball and no guaranteed starting army from valeska. if we talking sod without diplo well then adela is just banned

in mp games the flat damage is enough as spells are found through scrolls and books in many templates as well as ez might stats from good artifacts/skills, on realllllly small maps even warlocks are good heroes cuz of the power stat gains and starting power. i mean what would a 15/15/4/4 armorer crag without implosion do vs 4/4/15/15 int alamar with implosion, the odds would probably be in alamars favour if crag doesnt have enough army to tank the spells, implo ele and resurrect spam counters the might factor completely in most cases in hota

i guess inhib orb was intended to counter the books completely but it also just renders magic heroes useless lol. without inhib orb then magic heroes are viable early game and mid game with some exceptions, int specialists in sod are also crazy with the amount of control they can cast. and summon elemental usually just counters might stats completely which is why red orb is broken in sod and interference is a great lategame skill for hota games, they even designed interference to actually nerf magic heroes lol most people would not consider buffing sorcery before buffing might heroes in hota

i think the difference is what we consider lategame, i mean most multiplayer games (which hota is balanced after, and what i guess we are talking about here) end early, and in singleplayer any hero can work because the ai is kinda bad compared to what you can do with basically any hero

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