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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Marihuana, flower, and hashis
Thread: Marihuana, flower, and hashis This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 09, 2017 04:59 PM

Marihuana, flower, and hashis

The Switzerland chases Dutch:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-08/a-swiss-startup-is-pumping-out-legal-hashish

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 09, 2017 05:10 PM

Stopped smoking tobacco 6 years ago (after 15 years of not stop)then had to try again a few weeks ago because some doctors told me hashish may have good effects on sleep. After 4 days of smoking once every evening, I started to feel the need of the drug now and then, after 1 week I wanted it every morning after wake up, then every 2-3 hours, then continuously after 2 weeks. The worst aspects of drugs are not in the effects, but in the dependence, which then creates the effects.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted December 09, 2017 05:57 PM

Isn't it something about when you take a reward producing drug the brain starts to produce less so you have to take more just to maintain a status quo of before you took the drug?

Once one tries to stop I imagine it's pretty horrible because they'll probably experience something along the lines of the reverse of when they first started taking the drug and have to go through it until the brain compensates.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2017 06:10 PM

It's not the drug that creates the dependence, it's the fact each drug caters to a specific need. The need is what creates the dependence, when the drug caters to it. The problem is, it's only temporary.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 09, 2017 06:28 PM

Well this is like saying is not food which creates obesity, but being hungry. Where is the difference if one needs the other to make sense.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted December 09, 2017 06:55 PM

Isn't prescribing hashish for insomnia a bit too extreme? Then again I don't know how bad your sleep problems are.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 09, 2017 07:05 PM
Edited by artu at 19:10, 09 Dec 2017.

Salamandre said:
Well this is like saying is not food which creates obesity, but being hungry. Where is the difference if one needs the other to make sense.

The difference is, it is about your psychology rather than some hardcore chemical effect. That's why some people are categorized as having an addictive personality while for others such a fall is much harder. That's why not everyone who drinks become an alcoholic or some people can even feel addicted to chocolate. The substance is not just a detail of course, some "hard" drugs like heroin are easier to develop an actual addiction, no matter the level of your individual  tendency to "feel" addicted. For years, I smoked weed occasionally and there can be times I dont miss it for weeks, in my twenties and early thirties I was a hardcore drinker, meeting the bottom of the bottle before having breakfast level but these days, I usually have a few beers and I simply dont feel the urge to go on and on, because it bores me. With most subtances, addiction is mostly about compensating a void, not going physically "cold turkey." Same with obesity, people who eat like crazy don't do it cause they feel hunger like some actually hungry person who hasnt eaten for hours or food is addictive, they use food to ignore other problems they constantly delay to face.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted December 09, 2017 07:06 PM

Salamandre said:
Well this is like saying is not food which creates obesity, but being hungry. Where is the difference if one needs the other to make sense.
It's neither food that creates obesity nor being hungry.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
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Wog refugee
posted December 09, 2017 07:16 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:43, 09 Dec 2017.

Unless metabolism disorder, it is eating too much which provokes obesity.

LizardWarrior said:
Isn't prescribing hashish for insomnia a bit too extreme? Then again I don't know how bad your sleep problems are.


No, there are variants of the plant which are medically prescribed. However they are as addictive as the pure one, if smoked. The same pills don't have same effect.

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pizza Nazi
posted December 09, 2017 08:08 PM

I only experienced second hand weed smoke, yet sometimes I have this sudden craving for it, which gets even worse when I get to hear the smell, which is ironic enough considering I never smoked it and I'm quite opposed to its smoking.

Although we could classify as not being addicted to the substance itself, but rather the possibility of getting that dopamine rush for doing something against your rules.

And this is really the crux of the issue, you don't get addicted just to drugs, alcohol and tobacco, but you can get addicted to anything if your brain responds correctly, you could even get addicted to the weirdest thing you can imagine, if that makes you feel rewarded.

By itself this is mostly a nuisance, as long as we're talking about innocuous things, but shift to toxic substances or destructive behaviours and then we have a problem.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2017 08:21 PM

They are not addictive, You son't understand the psychology and chemistry of addiction.
Read artu's post (again). Addiction is a state of mind. If there is a "hole" in you - that is, an unfulfilled need, that is, something that is WRONG - and there is ANYTHING (that doesn*t haveto be a substance; it might be an activity or a "habit", like always doing things in a certain order, and so on) that FILLS the hole, you are IMMEDIATELY addicted. You are just hooked. And that's why it's so difficult to fight addiction. What do you think is the reason why "cured" addicts relapse? Because the hole will still be there and the knowledge there is something you can easily fill it with.

Which means, you are not addicted because of a drug, you become addicted because you are VULNERABLE for what the drug (or the chocolate or burgers or speed or soring things) does.

Alcoholics, for example, are alcoholics because the alcohol satisfies the need to "shoot themselves into oblivion". It's not the alcohol as such, but the oblivion - which is something you do not want if you don't have that specific hole in yourself, so you will never become an alcoholic simply because without it you don't like it when you slur and can't remember stuff and so on.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted December 09, 2017 08:36 PM

Well if one e.g. tends to eat fast, it's not that unusual for the feel of hunger to subside later than when one has finished the meal.

Also the larger a person is, the more he'd typically eat.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 09, 2017 08:46 PM

Looks to me this is discussion for the sake of. I smoked for 15 years and was offered weed endless times - as many of my friends do it. I tried once, I disliked it a lot then never tried again. Then when had to take it for medical reasons, 2 weeks later I get addicted. This doesn't sound like "I had a hole to fill and being vulnerable too", it looks to me like the natural effect each drug has. Statistics prove it too.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted December 09, 2017 08:54 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 21:04, 09 Dec 2017.

Hunger is one of the body's internal senses (along with the sensation of thirst).

Addiction is not 100% understood but it is more or less accepted that weed has a high probability of addiction, even if there is no such thing as a chemical withdrawal. Almost any mind altering substance is going to have a high addiction rate and JJ's explanation is what is used in most recovery programs. But not everybody is going to respond the same.

It's hard to find good science through a Google search because what we are going through right now with weed is what people were going through with cigarettes in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. All sorts of fake medical advice, propaganda, politics, and personal soapboxes. My former best friend in high school went from being a witty, energetic, go-lucky smartass to being a lethargic zombie. He started weed not long after his parents' divorced. I eventually just stopped all communication with him because one day it occurred to me that my friend doesn't exist.

We will have a lot more information in the near future.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 09, 2017 09:03 PM

@Sal

As I said already, the subtance does not have zero effect, of course, it is easier to get addicted to weed than to nuggets. But an average person does not obssess over weed like you do in just two weeks, weed is actually considered less addictive than coffee on a chemical basis. Maybe, you're in some latant mid-life crisis or something, maybe you have too much time to waste these days, I dont know, but it's certainly not a physiological norm of the substance to put you in such a state over two weeks. Do your friends who smoke continuously want to smoke on an hourly basis like you described, I guess not. Weed is very relaxing, maybe you need peace of mind these days and it just matched the desire.

@AlHazin

There is no "ready to wear" formula. Each person deals with their problems (whatever they are) by learning from their own experience and struggle. To some, its about making peace with their past, to some it's about creative work, some find meaning in family, some in religion... It depends on what the root of the problem is and that may be hard to dig, that's why theraphy treatments can go on for years.


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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2017 09:09 PM

Look. There is a CLINICAL "hole" in you (that cannot be filled "naturally"). Therefore everything that stuffs is is addictive (and believe me, it's addictive like hell).
On the other hand, if it's NOT stuffing your hole, there would be no reason to take it (anymore).

Example: You have chronical pain. You get a prescription for a pain killer. You take it. It does NOT work. You tell your doc, it doesn't work, and they'll try something else.
If it DOES work, though, you'll be hooked, because being without pain is bliss.
However, there is tolerance. The body/mind is developing a tolerance against substances. Most obvious with psychedelica like LSD. (Which is why the "natural" drugs/hormones work best.)

But keep in mind that you don't use the dope VOLUNTARILY. It's PRESCRIBE.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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Initiate
posted December 09, 2017 09:11 PM

But even when the pain is over the addiction can continue, like with morphine.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 09, 2017 09:14 PM

artu said:
Maybe, you're in some latant mid-life crisis or something, maybe you have too much time to waste these days, I dont know, but it's certainly not a physiological norm of the substance to put you in such a state over two weeks. Do your friends who smoke continuously want to smoke on an hourly basis like you described, I guess not.


lol no. When people who smoke weed for the weed in itself feel the need, they just smoke it, so there is no "feel on an hourly basis". On the other side, I had to wait 10 PM to get my only weed-cigar therefore after 2 weeks of such discipline I felt the need on an hourly basis because I wasn't allowed to feed this need, naturally.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2017 09:18 PM

Well - no, actually.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 09, 2017 09:22 PM
Edited by artu at 21:25, 09 Dec 2017.

blizz said:
Almost any mind altering substance is going to have a high addiction rate and JJ's explanation is what is used in most recovery programs.

Naturally, because the best way to escape is to alter the mind. That's why people drink more after a traumatic event such as loss of loved ones or break ups etc than, say, eat ice-cream like crazy. (But that is also something people do.)

The thing is then, how altered you need your mind to be? Which is actually fitting like a glove to what JJ and I have been saying. If your aim is to be just a little tipsy, if that cuts it for you, neither alcohol or weed would throw you off the cliff, as heroin or meth would. But if "tipsy" is not enough to escape, than you'll do more and it will have greater effect on your character accordingly. Your friend probably stoned himself to oblivion non-stop, which is not the typical way most weed smokers behave.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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