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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Announcing new H4 object pack
Thread: Announcing new H4 object pack This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted January 20, 2018 03:47 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 01:01, 05 Aug 2018.

Announcing new H4 object pack - beta released

I'm pleased to announce that I'm working on a new OBJECT PACKAGE for H4.
Thanks to H4 editing program ResHelper made by Namerutan, as well as modding breakthrough on fellow fansite, heroescommunity, it is no longer limited to members of the Equilibris to add new objects to Heroes 4.
With the help of fellow modder Radmutant69, I'm planning on adding a large number of new objects. (Radmutant69 is kindly helping me import alot of the mirrored animations as H4 objects, as well as mirroring entrances and fixing flag positions).

A prioritized wishlist were posted here 4(!) years ago, and we're working our way through that as a start.

1st creature dwellings - In generel I decided not to mirror southfacing object.
2nd Quest huts.
3rd All one-way portal entrances and exits.
4th All two-way portal entrances and exits.
5th Miscellanious (Magi Windows, Tavern, Blacksmith, Sanctuary, Hexis' Garrison).
6th treasure buildings/creature banks.
7th power up's (EXCEPT moral/luck boosters, alters and stat gems).
8th ship wrecks, derelict ship, gargoyle columns editdemonic trees).



Now I don't have exact number but I estimate we're aboutt 60% through the list above, and that also includes/will include several non-portal Movement Modifiers like the Lighthouse, Stables, Tunnels etc., Structures and a few more.

Equilibris v.3.55 introduced a number of new objects based on Combat Objects and I intend on adding a lot of those as well. This means we'll have many more landscaping objects like Trees, Logs, Rocks, Flowers, Shrub, Mushrooms, Structures etc.
Among the more exciting new objects, there will be Staglagmites, Crates, Sacks, Ropes, Dead Creatures, Fog and Light. The list of new landscaping objects will include a couple hundred new objects (and even then I've still left out quite a lot).
Equilibris v.3.55 also included Creature Quest Huts, which essentially are Quest Huts with the looks of creatures. While this is still uncharted territory for me, I believe we can add those as well, IF fans request it.
We can even mod existing objects e.g. like turning the Tree of Knowledge into a Quest Hut.

I hope to finish and release this during 2018, but I would like to hear what the fans and map makers would consider as useful/interesting objects.
- Is Creature Quest Huts an unnessecary object or would it be interesting for (RPG) map making?
- Would Weather Effects like Fog, Sandstorm, Rain, Snowfall etc. be something fans would like to see?


WANNA HELP US???

Also it would be great if anyone would offer to help with this or has objects of their own to share.
You can assist me in the following ways:
- Photoediting - preparing images for import - in most cases this is simply rescaling or deleting unneccesary images, but it would lift my work load.
- Hex editing - help me transform new images into objects (you really don't need experience with hex editing - a year ago I'd never done any hex editing before, and if I can learn it, then I can teach you as well - it's really not hard).
- Artists - I'm not much of an artist or animator myself and if we want objects like Weather Effects, it would be great if anyone could create such images/animations.
---------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT on aug. 5 2018.

I'm ready to release a beta of the object package (v.0.5)

Feedback is much appreciated. Also please report any kind of visual 'bugs' here. I'm aware of some irregularities in the Magic Lamps as well the Cliff Nest and Siege Workshop. Those I will look into.

Quick overview - The H4 Object Package version 0.5 contains:
19 mirrored Creature Banks
43 mirrored Creature Dwellings
17 dead creatures decoratives (16 from Equilibris v3.55)
9 Quest huts with creature appearances (from Equilibris v3.55)
101 new landscape objects. Mainly logs, trees, cactus and rocks (partly from Equi v3.55)
and a few others.
A total of 192 objects is included.

Future updates will include:
Mirrored movement modifiers (teleporters, tunnels, Lighthouse etc.)
Mirrored Miscellaneous (Magi Windows, Tavern, Blacksmith, Sanctuary, Hexis' Garrison etc).
Mirrored Power Up's (EXCEPT moral/luck boosters, alters and stat gems).
Loads more landscape objects and more.

HUMUNGOUS thanks to Radmutant69 for taking the time to help me import a lot of the images into h4d format. That saved me a lot of time.

Also a special thanks to iLiVeInAbOx05 for creating a proper modding tool. It's been useful so far, and will be a timesaver for the remainder of this project no doubt.

Also thanks to Namerutan, NimoStar, Baronus and other at heroescommunity.com for helping in the process of understanding how to change/make new objects as well as understanding hex editing in general.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted January 21, 2018 02:29 PM

Very good ideas. We need renovation and new look.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
posted January 21, 2018 02:31 PM
Edited by orzie at 14:33, 21 Jan 2018.

But dude, the sun cannot shine from two different directions simultaneously.

P.S. it would be somewhat fun to see turnaround-map conversions though.
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radmutant69
radmutant69


Known Hero
posted January 21, 2018 06:07 PM
Edited by radmutant69 at 18:10, 21 Jan 2018.

Are you sure?



#moonlandinghoax

Also:


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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted January 22, 2018 12:26 AM
Edited by Karmakeld at 00:06, 05 Feb 2018.

orzie said:
But dude, the sun cannot shine from two different directions simultaneously.

P.S. it would be somewhat fun to see turnaround-map conversions though.


Yeah, I was gonna go for the multiple sun reply as well. Thanks Radmutant

No seriously, it's not that I wouldn't like all objects to be 100% perfect, but changing the lighting/shading is sadly beyond my skills. Lighting has been fixed in a few cases (where possible), but often it's not that easy, also I have a ton of stuff planned, so it's simply low priority.
I try to correct shadows as best as possible, but even some of those are clearly off.
We are however making sure that that objects are perfectly centered, entrances are mirrored and while we might claim there's two suns, there's only 1 wind direction

But dude, offer to help us fix the lighting and maybe, I can persuade Radmutant to import the images once more..

-------------------
EDIT feb.4-18.

Okay Orzie. I found a way to please you So we're fixing the lighting issue. Look at this - original on the right, new edited on the left.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted March 30, 2018 09:40 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 19:53, 03 Jun 2018.

So I'm redoing the shadows and highlights as best as possible, so the objects won't simply appear as just mirrored objects.
Radmutant is still helping me and we're also fixing flag positions and mirroring entrances.
Mirroring all of the adventure objects was quite a task, but fixing the lighting, shadows and checking for correct flag position, animation speed and entrance/passability info is like redoing all of it over again, so if any one would like to help test and view that all mirrored objects appear as they should, please give a shout out and I'll share the objects with you for viewing.
Currently I'm going through all objects 1 by 1, before giving them the 'ready to be packaged' approval stamp, but if any one could give me a hand, that would free some time to focus on actual editing.

is helping preparing images for dead creatures. That part is also highly appreciated, as it saves me time.

So does anyone wanna help speed up the process??
--------------------------------------------------
UPDATE on 03/06/18:

So alot of objects are already done, with new shadows and lighting to match the mirrored angle. All Creature Banks (except for Labyrint) and most of the Creature Dwellings are presented below. I'll post the objects are I finish them and rechieve the imported objects from Radmutant. All objects are centered, entrances are mirrored as well as flag positions.
Feel free to give feedback. I tried my best to match how the shadows should look like, but I'm not a graphics artist, so sadly I can't match all objects 100%.







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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 17, 2018 04:32 PM

Still not published

Although I don't think including 3.55 objects is necessary... they already come with both 3.55 and my mod

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted June 17, 2018 09:30 PM

NimoStar said:
Still not published

Although I don't think including 3.55 objects is necessary... they already come with both 3.55 and my mod


Rather than doing 10 updates, I find it better to have just 1 release. If people asked for it, I could release what we have so far, but as the plan includes far beyond 300 new objects, of which many has to have their lighting and shading changed, no it's not done yet. Hope is a 2018 release.

Well the downside is that the 3.55 objects either require the 3.55 version or your mod, as of now they are NOT compatible/available for Std, WoW or Equi 3.51. Keep in mind not everybody knows how to extract the files to use in other versions.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 18, 2018 05:19 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 17:23, 18 Jun 2018.

I Didn't notice you were changing the lightning to fit (in some objects going back I see it, in others not). That's cool as I had thought myself reflecterd objects would have this problem,
but the results are sometimes very good and others... not so much

Anyways, as I read the debate now, people neglected one thing:
Light source is not always the sun. Reflected objects would actually give a good effect if the light was between the two objects. In subterranean, there is no sun, etc.

THis would be easier if H4 was 3d with dynamic RGB lights

But no other Heroes game has fighting heros or RPG parties, so... :/

***

Updates are necessary. If Equi would have waited to end, we would have had no mod. If Namerutan ould have waited to finish, we would have had no tool. If I had waited to finish my mod, nobody would have ever player it...

THink of a release as a "community backup" is anything., It costs nothing and it saves the work in case it has to be halted.

As you yourself say, this project is not for regular people that won't know how to use them, but to modders... and we are accustomed to installing updates and re-downloading assets, are we not?

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Known Hero
posted June 18, 2018 08:32 PM
Edited by iliveinabox05 at 20:43, 18 Jun 2018.

Actually he is not saying this object pack is only for modders. The opposite is actually true. This is meant for anyone and everyone - since "not everybody knows how to extract the files".

It is clearly meant for anyone to download and just drop the pack into the data folder and be good to go without having to install Equilibris or any other mod.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 18, 2018 10:40 PM

The objects are a mod. And they won't magically appear in game. They have to even be manually added in the editor. Then used on a map. Then saved and the map opened ONLY with a version with the extra objects intalled.

And I don't think that would be multiplayer-compatible either.

So for all intents and purposes it is a mod package and only works on modded maps with modded game...

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Known Hero
posted June 18, 2018 10:54 PM
Edited by radmutant69 at 23:13, 18 Jun 2018.

Yeah but we can pack them into the updates.h4r (for example) and give aop files for every game version. That will be compatible with any version. And they can appear magically in the editor.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Known Hero
posted June 18, 2018 11:05 PM

NimoStar said:
The objects are a mod. And they won't magically appear in game. They have to even be manually added in the editor. Then used on a map. Then saved and the map opened ONLY with a version with the extra objects intalled.


Oh really? You think? I had no idea omgosh!

Do you really think this object pack would be released without any instructions (no matter how simple those instructions will be)? Do you think map makers would not let players know that they need this object pack - with the simple instructions on how to "install" them?

NimoStar said:
And I don't think that would be multiplayer-compatible either.


Don't care.

NimoStar said:
So for all intents and purposes it is a mod package and only works on modded maps with modded game...


The whole point of this object package is to have one single place for EVERYONE to get them so that anyone that uses them in any maps they create can easily be played by anyone. They simply get the object pack at the place that it is stored, put it in the data folder, and done.

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Known Hero
posted June 18, 2018 11:17 PM

Ah I completely forgot you two just don't like each other :/

I didn't say anything then...

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted June 25, 2018 01:21 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 13:41, 25 Jun 2018.

radmutant69 said:
Ah I completely forgot you two just don't like each other :/

I didn't say anything then...


How could you forget?
I was really surprised by hoe polite iLiVe's 1st reply was
But Nimo I'm also surprised that with ALL your apparent knowledge about how mod and game files work, both Radmutant and iLiVe had to correct you.

As they both already stated the intend is to have all these files packed in a universally readable h4r file (mod or not), add a modified aop file that will place all objects in the editor (for the non modders - keep in mind you yourself did that in your mod) and also include maps with the objects in case ppl have a customised aop they don't want to overwrite. So I don't see how any of the issues you listed being issues at all. Not even multiplayer. As long as all players has the object file there shouldn't be an issue. The same goes for maps using these objects being no different then the already existing ones that requires Equi mod or new_mod file to display customized portraits or creature heroes etc.. And NO this is not a mod requiring a mod game, again you should know this, ot's merely a h4r file which will be fully compatible with both Vanilla game, GTS, WoW, Equi and even your mod, no need for new exe file or map editor. And yes it has been tested.

Oh and as for updates, I think you're comparing apples and pears here. This objects packages isn't a program or mod which benefits from testing or beta versions. What you're missing here is that some of these objects are being improved several times, and if I released an update once a month, the final version would have to include e.g. 10 versions of the Archery Range just to make sure I don't break your map, coz you used an old version in your map. I see absolutely no point in that. It's not a big deal if you're using the ready made aop file, but if you want to make your own editor palette, it will be a nightmare having to go through 10 files, where you CAN'T see the end of the file name, so you can only guess which is the final version - this would just risk causing incompatability issues.
As for Backups, Radmutant has the files too and they're also stored online in an open folder where others can access them.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted June 25, 2018 06:15 PM

NimoStar said:
I Didn't notice you were changing the lightning to fit (in some objects going back I see it, in others not). That's cool as I had thought myself reflecterd objects would have this problem,
but the results are sometimes very good and others... not so much

Anyways, as I read the debate now, people neglected one thing:
Light source is not always the sun. Reflected objects would actually give a good effect if the light was between the two objects. In subterranean, there is no sun, etc.



Could you be specific and point out those objects that you think could be improved, and what the issue is with the objects, like bad shadow, bad lighting on upper right side etc. rather than just saying some of them aren't so good..?

The 1st image posted in 1st post was simply showing that objects could be mirrored, clearly these haven't been altered as the following comments suggested that lighting should be fixed, but I asume you aren't refering to those objects.
Apart from that some objects have more distinct highlights, shades and shadows than others, so that in itself is a reason why the  e.g. the 2 Parapets (gargoyles) might not look as different as the 2 Golden Pavillions (nagas), in my mind it's fine that way.

As for the lightsource, you say that the sun isn't always the source.. Care to show some examples coz to me that simply makes no sense. If you look at each and every single adventure object in the game you'll notice they all share some common traits. Shadows all fall in the same direction. Highlights all come from the same direction and the shaded side of structures are also all the same. Even the wind direction is the same throughout all objects, I asume by Reflected objects you mean MIRRORED objects, but if you simply mirror e.g the Windmill and place it next to the original, you would have 2 different wind directions and shadows would be cast both to westside and eastside. Ofcourse if you mean the sun is Reflected on the first windwill onto the 2nd then that could explain the shadow, but these objects aren't walls of windows or mirrors that reflect the light, so I really don't get your point there...

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Known Hero
posted June 25, 2018 07:09 PM
Edited by iliveinabox05 at 19:10, 25 Jun 2018.

Welcome back Michael! (haven't seen you here in a little)

I actually just had an idea which could alleviate the issue of potentially breaking maps that use new objects from the pack (if it is updated): The H4MG is able to read all objects on a map, so it could potentially loop through all the objects in a map, and compare their names to a list of objects in your pack. Then, it could remove each of these objects, and replace them with a sign with the name of the object that was used for ease of replacing them with the editor.

Could be annoying if many decoration objects were used, but you would never have to worry about your map being broken or having to start completely over (a broken object causes the map to be unable to be opened) if an updated object pack were to be released that you wanted to use.

As far as objects that look funny or not quite right. I think Panda Tar's suggestion was spot on with respect to how to fix the shadows. Just draw a line on the ground through the feature you want to check the shadow for in the direction the shadows are cast, and if the line hits the correct point in the shadow, then you're good. If not, then the shadow feature should be moved to where the line passes on the ground (I know that's a lot of work, and I would help if I didn't have so many other things to do).

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted June 26, 2018 07:56 AM

Well we've barely just returned from CopenHell festival and real life took off some spare time, so that's the cause of my absence.

I think your idea is really good, as an easy trouble shooting method, compared to the nightmare of manually figuring out which (missing) object is breaking a map.
What would it require to do such a check? I mean would it require a complete name list of all (new) objects or something like that?

Yeah, Panda Tar's suggestion is definitely something I have to incoorporate. I will get there and eventually I might go through all objects for a final approval, still it would be great if people would spend the few second it takes to actually point out the (hopefully) few objects that could do with additional fixing, as both me and Radmutant have found them decent looking.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Known Hero
posted June 26, 2018 06:08 PM

Karmakeld said:
I think your idea is really good, as an easy trouble shooting method, compared to the nightmare of manually figuring out which (missing) object is breaking a map.
What would it require to do such a check? I mean would it require a complete name list of all (new) objects or something like that?



All it would require is a list of the object names (file names) as they appear in the map. I'll have to go back and look, but pretty sure it's just the file name without the .h4d at the end.

So, basically anytime you are going to update and release a new version of the object pack, we would need to generate a list which would be added to the H4MG data folder. Then, when loading a map with the H4MG, there would be an option (maybe another tab) for the object pack where the user could have all the objects removed and replaced with the signs containing the name of the object.

Karmakeld said:
Yeah, Panda Tar's suggestion is definitely something I have to incoorporate. I will get there and eventually I might go through all objects for a final approval, still it would be great if people would spend the few second it takes to actually point out the (hopefully) few objects that could do with additional fixing, as both me and Radmutant have found them decent looking.



I can certainly go through and point out which ones are a little off. I didn't want to do that before since I wasn't going to be able to help you fix them and didn't want to create more work for you, lol.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted June 27, 2018 10:45 AM
Edited by Karmakeld at 10:46, 27 Jun 2018.

iliveinabox05 said:
Karmakeld said:
I think your idea is really good, as an easy trouble shooting method, compared to the nightmare of manually figuring out which (missing) object is breaking a map.
What would it require to do such a check? I mean would it require a complete name list of all (new) objects or something like that?



All it would require is a list of the object names (file names) as they appear in the map. I'll have to go back and look, but pretty sure it's just the file name without the .h4d at the end.

So, basically anytime you are going to update and release a new version of the object pack, we would need to generate a list which would be added to the H4MG data folder. Then, when loading a map with the H4MG, there would be an option (maybe another tab) for the object pack where the user could have all the objects removed and replaced with the signs containing the name of the object.


Ok so as I suspected, but I guess it just a matter of copy pasting the file names into some text document, would still take a bit of time though.

Karmakeld said:
Yeah, Panda Tar's suggestion is definitely something I have to incoorporate. I will get there and eventually I might go through all objects for a final approval, still it would be great if people would spend the few second it takes to actually point out the (hopefully) few objects that could do with additional fixing, as both me and Radmutant have found them decent looking.



I can certainly go through and point out which ones are a little off. I didn't want to do that before since I wasn't going to be able to help you fix them and didn't want to create more work for you, lol.


Haha really nice of you, but I'm okay fixing them myself. We've already had alot of these 3rd, 4th, 5th etc corrections, but at some point I think we started labeling the errors as the ones who are slightly off which we would accept and those way off that needed fixing. I do occasionally still find parts that annoys my eye, but I aslo must admit that the list is so looong that some minor details like the fact that I didn't reverse the lighting and shade on top of the Burrow Mound just becomes a low priority fix. I also add extra work for Radmutant with each update, so that's my second excuse hehe.
But when you have time, feel free to list the mistakes, and I'm certain I will get through them eventually.

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