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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Summon gargoyls
Thread: Summon gargoyls
AigleEdente
AigleEdente

Tavern Dweller
posted August 21, 2018 10:21 PM

Summon gargoyls

I was thinking on a change regarding heroes 4, and it may be an improvement in equilibris (is a new version planned ?). It could be implemented in 3.51 and/or 3.55. I'd like to see a level 3 spell for death faction, Summon gargoyls. It would be a nice adding to death and since nature can already summon the other elemental this would fill a gap in spells that death needs. Also it would make the ring of elementals more usefull. Tell me if you think it needs to be more balanced or such, or speak if you feel it's a good idea
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 22, 2018 08:55 AM

I think Equilibris v.3.6 has been planed for the past decade, but with the team leader currently absent, most progress is likely on stand by.
Anyway if you think it would be a nice change to add that spell, why not just do it? Then you couls release your mos for others.
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radmutant69
radmutant69


Known Hero
posted August 22, 2018 04:41 PM

The problem is if you want to 'add' this spell, you must replace an other existing summoning type spell with it, because we can't add completely new spells to the game yet.

I like your idea BTW, but I'm not sure which summoning spell is the most useless (even Summon Sprite can be useful around the start of a game ), so I can't decide which one would be replaced by Summon Gargoyle...

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AigleEdente
AigleEdente

Tavern Dweller
posted August 22, 2018 06:42 PM

Hum that's bad news...
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 24, 2018 08:01 AM

There is a few option here. Replace summoning leprechauns (1 lvl), satyrs (2 lvl) or air elementals (3 lvl).

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2018 09:11 PM

BrennusWhiskey said:
There is a few option here. Replace summoning leprechauns (1 lvl), satyrs (2 lvl) or air elementals (3 lvl).


but... but.. BrennusWhiskey has your profile been hacked? No questions about multiplayer
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 24, 2018 10:22 PM

Aigle Edente is a well-know online player, veteran in The Kings League

And I listed the most useless online creatures I know (sprites and wolves are also worth nothing).

THE KINGS
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2018 10:17 AM

BrennusWhiskey said:
Aigle Edente is a well-know online player, veteran in The Kings League

And I listed the most useless online creatures I know (sprites and wolves are also worth nothing).

THE KINGS


Ah.. then I can calm down again
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 29, 2018 05:38 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 05:39, 29 Aug 2018.

My mod has many different Summon spells spread in all magics.

Summon Leprecahun is actually an OP spell since it's better than Luck.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 29, 2018 02:10 PM

NimoStar said:
My mod has many different Summon spells spread in all magics.

Summon Leprecahun is actually an OP spell since it's better than Luck.


Actually you can call any magic OP especially that what your opponent mastered.

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AigleEdente
AigleEdente

Tavern Dweller
posted August 29, 2018 03:36 PM

What is an OP spell ?

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kkfkkkfk
kkfkkkfk


Adventuring Hero
Nothing is impossible
posted August 29, 2018 06:34 PM

OP=overpowered
Here it may mean this.
Spell is never balanced.

If you want to replace some summoning spells.
Neutral creatures are definitely better choices.

But I think summoning Gargoyle is unnecessary.
The ghost works much better than it does.
And the chance of casting should give better spell.


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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 29, 2018 07:02 PM

kkfkkkfk said:

If you want to replace some summoning spells.
Neutral creatures are definitely better choices.





There are no neutral creatures in H4; each one is linked to some race.

And in general about summoning if you want something OP - go for summon phoenixes, mantis or faerie dragons.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 29, 2018 07:45 PM

I made a mod for wog years ago, you can summon any creature depending on your magic schools expertise + magic synergies + magic artifacts. Stronger you become, more summoning options you get

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE9ny0866jE&t=5s

Maybe this can give you some ideas

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kkfkkkfk
kkfkkkfk


Adventuring Hero
Nothing is impossible
posted August 29, 2018 08:06 PM

BrennusWhiskey said:
kkfkkkfk said:

If you want to replace some summoning spells.
Neutral creatures are definitely better choices.





There are no neutral creatures in H4; each one is linked to some race.

And in general about summoning if you want something OP - go for summon phoenixes, mantis or faerie dragons.


What are neutral creatures?
They are the creatures that have not dwelling in the castle.
Such as Leprechaun,Satyr...



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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 29, 2018 08:48 PM

Gargoyles also seem to be neutral.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 31, 2018 03:54 AM

Quote:

Actually you can call any magic OP especially that what your opponent mastered.


I don't.

What I mean is the Summon Leprechaun is objectively better than other spell.

Summon Leprechaun = 2 mana, first level, leprechauns give Luck, number of leprechauns is upgraded with power, level and skills.

Luck = 3 mana, second level, no creatures.

So summon leprecahun is you get creatures + you get blessing. Summoning Satyr is similar (and these give morale twice), but at least there is competition like Elves, and Mirth is worse than Luck in H4.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted August 31, 2018 08:52 AM
Edited by BrennusWhiskey at 08:58, 31 Aug 2018.

But this is the strength of summoning isn't it? You get additional creatures and some of them also help with magic. And playing against preserve many times I would not say it is OP in any aspect.

See for example this:
Power of Death vol.2
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 21, 2018 12:34 AM
Edited by TheUnknown at 00:35, 21 Sep 2018.

NimoStar said:
Quote:

Actually you can call any magic OP especially that what your opponent mastered.


I don't.

What I mean is the Summon Leprechaun is objectively better than other spell.

Summon Leprechaun = 2 mana, first level, leprechauns give Luck, number of leprechauns is upgraded with power, level and skills.

Luck = 3 mana, second level, no creatures.

So summon leprecahun is you get creatures + you get blessing. Summoning Satyr is similar (and these give morale twice), but at least there is competition like Elves, and Mirth is worse than Luck in H4.


While the leprechaun casts his spell, you might waste precious turns until you get the effect.
If the hero casts the spell, the effect is immediate.

Yes indeed in most cases like versus the neutrals, the summon leprechaun is a great spell because of things like "free" luck, range fodder and wasting enemy retaliation and even more, but the spell has less effect against fast opponents. Specially if you consider heroes with speed potion or under morale effect. The scenarios might not seem to happen often, but in those cases you would value the direct casting a lot more. This is also the case in maps that are poor in experience gain but big on army recruiting.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted September 21, 2018 08:54 AM

This is also the case in multiplayer

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