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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Were Conflux and Necropolis over nerfed in HotA?
Thread: Were Conflux and Necropolis over nerfed in HotA? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted August 31, 2018 12:16 PM

@revolut1oN.... Thanks dude. Now I get it, you explained dumb-proof (just how I like it)

Cheers!

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2018 04:24 PM

No problem man, glad I could have been of use.

monere said:


It still makes no sense to me (the bolded part I mean). Let's say Rampart and Dungeon are generated randomly and I think that Rampart is better than Dungeon, while my opponent thinks the other way around. Why should I give him more money because of what I think when he thinks the same about his town,


Well, during the barter phase you pay just for the freedom of first choice. If you win the barter, you can pick what you want. If you paid more, then you would be able to choose Rampart if you like it, if the opponent paid more, he can pick Dungeon if he thinks that its worth the price.


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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted August 31, 2018 04:30 PM

revolut1oN said:
Well, during the barter phase you pay just for the freedom of first choice. If you win the barter, you can pick what you want. If you paid more, then you would be able to choose Rampart if you like it, if the opponent paid more, he can pick Dungeon if he thinks that its worth the price.


That was the part I had problems understanding while reading the barter rules, but in the meantime I had figured it out. Still, I appreciate your reply. Now, everything is clear as day

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2018 09:49 PM

NimoStar said:
No retaliation is an overstated ability, all creatures have "No retaliation" power if you just hit something that retaliated before, and you can trigger this easily with spam, even clones or summons.

Anyways if you need an specialty just to make a creature vaguely usable, that is bad.

Conflux creatures are bad. Conflux was good because of Phoenix and Magic Elemental, with Phoenix nerfed in HotA and all elementals still sucking, there isn't much of a chance.

Ther magic university needed for FIRST level creature is just the nail on the coffin.

What are you going to do, cast Protect Air? :V


It is exactly that what I mean. Devil's no enemy retaliation ability does not make them better than Dragons, Behemoths or Titans. Titans have also a kind of no enemy retaliation ability plus %50 more damage, health and mind spell immunity. Behemoths are also cheap and possess immense damage. They are by far better units than devils.

What do you think Is Conflux overpowered in SoD?
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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted August 31, 2018 10:26 PM

Otuken said:
It is exactly that what I mean. Devil's no enemy retaliation ability does not make them better than Dragons, Behemoths or Titans. Titans have also a kind of no enemy retaliation ability plus %50 more damage, health and mind spell immunity. Behemoths are also cheap and possess immense damage. They are by far better units than devils.


oh common. stop defending your beloved GD. they litterally have a 11 point lower Defense than an AD. they're like paper for a lvl 7 unit. and their damage will not be better - actually significantly less, since their Attack rating is not any much better. their only good use is "kamikadze rush" your opp and try to get aging in on key units, as you say. plus they Undead, so there's very little use of that high Damage range, because you can't "Mass Adela Bless" those suckers, while devils you can. they lower Speed also and Mercury requirement is still high for their build. just no excuses for building paper units

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 31, 2018 10:40 PM

Arch Devils are definitely better than Ghost Dragons. In HotA Arch Devils even give -2 Luck, which is actually too good imo. You are also forgetting Arch Devils are very fast, only beaten by Archangels, Phoenixes (and Azure Dragons) and they are perfect candidates for Frenzy and to be resurrected through Sacrifice.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 01, 2018 12:12 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Arch Devils are definitely better than Ghost Dragons. In HotA Arch Devils even give -2 Luck, which is actually too good imo. You are also forgetting Arch Devils are very fast, only beaten by Archangels, Phoenixes (and Azure Dragons) and they are perfect candidates for Frenzy and to be resurrected through Sacrifice.


can't put it better lol

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2018 12:44 AM
Edited by Otuken at 00:46, 01 Sep 2018.

Lth3 said:
Otuken said:
It is exactly that what I mean. Devil's no enemy retaliation ability does not make them better than Dragons, Behemoths or Titans. Titans have also a kind of no enemy retaliation ability plus %50 more damage, health and mind spell immunity. Behemoths are also cheap and possess immense damage. They are by far better units than devils.


oh common. stop defending your beloved GD. they litterally have a 11 point lower Defense than an AD. they're like paper for a lvl 7 unit. and their damage will not be better - actually significantly less, since their Attack rating is not any much better. their only good use is "kamikadze rush" your opp and try to get aging in on key units, as you say. plus they Undead, so there's very little use of that high Damage range, because you can't "Mass Adela Bless" those suckers, while devils you can. they lower Speed also and Mercury requirement is still high for their build. just no excuses for building paper units


Well better to compare 2 Archdevils with 3 Ghost Dragons because they are %50 more expensive (their dwellings also).

3 Ghost Dragon:

57 AT
51 DEF
HP 600
Average Damage 37.5

2 ArchDevil

52 AT
56 DEF
HP 400
Average Damage 35

Their total AT/DEF rating is equal but 3 Ghost Dragon have better HP and damage rating.

These stats show that ArchDevils are not even better than Ghost Dragons in full scale battles let alone other Dragons.

Blessing to Devils? They will always be blinded.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2018 09:15 AM
Edited by Djangoo at 09:19, 01 Sep 2018.

The most cost effective unit is obviously the Peasent!

https://youtu.be/GLOD5pRrRD0

But seriously: Inferno Overall is Not that expensive town, you will have no trouble buying your full town. Also the most played templates are filthy rich.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 01, 2018 09:19 AM
Edited by Lth3 at 09:28, 01 Sep 2018.

Otuken said:
Lth3 said:
Otuken said:
It is exactly that what I mean. Devil's no enemy retaliation ability does not make them better than Dragons, Behemoths or Titans. Titans have also a kind of no enemy retaliation ability plus %50 more damage, health and mind spell immunity. Behemoths are also cheap and possess immense damage. They are by far better units than devils.


oh common. stop defending your beloved GD. they litterally have a 11 point lower Defense than an AD. they're like paper for a lvl 7 unit. and their damage will not be better - actually significantly less, since their Attack rating is not any much better. their only good use is "kamikadze rush" your opp and try to get aging in on key units, as you say. plus they Undead, so there's very little use of that high Damage range, because you can't "Mass Adela Bless" those suckers, while devils you can. they lower Speed also and Mercury requirement is still high for their build. just no excuses for building paper units


Well better to compare 2 Archdevils with 3 Ghost Dragons because they are %50 more expensive (their dwellings also).

3 Ghost Dragon:

57 AT
51 DEF
HP 600
Average Damage 37.5

2 ArchDevil

52 AT
56 DEF
HP 400
Average Damage 35

Their total AT/DEF rating is equal but 3 Ghost Dragon have better HP and damage rating.

These stats show that ArchDevils are not even better than Ghost Dragons in full scale battles let alone other Dragons.

Blessing to Devils? They will always be blinded.



so by your strange kind of logic that you're following, if you get a choice to buy 500 Peasants or 1 Archangel, you will choose the 500 Peasants, since they are the most BANG FOR THE BUCK. lol

Djangoo said:
The most cost effective unit is obviously the Peasent!

https://youtu.be/GLOD5pRrRD0


thanks for the video. this will really help Otuken

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 01, 2018 11:01 AM

Otuken said:
Their total AT/DEF rating is equal but [...]



But that is not how the math behind this game works. Multiply HP and damage with unit count, while attack and defense are mainly changed due to hero primary stats and spells.

That is one of the huge benefits of a spell like frenzy, because while level 7 creatures have a higher hp growth than lower tier units, the damage growth is mostly comparable to some lower level units iIRC. This means with a spell like frenzy you can have e.g. an X weeks growth of Crusaders take down an identical X weeks growth of Gold Dragons (given you have some fodder unit to take retaliation and you are playing against the computer).
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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 01, 2018 12:21 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 12:23, 01 Sep 2018.

considering both hero parties have identical stats, AD will already be apprx. 30% better than GD, i.e. deal 30% more damage and take 30% less damage. + they are significantly faster + no retaliation + 1 hex + -2 Luck as phoenix4ever mentioned

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2018 03:54 PM

Since comparing peasants with archangels is not as logical as comparing Archdevils vs Ghost Dragons because Archangel is 7.th level creature while peasants are not even first level creature therefore peasants cannot be more cost efficient than Archangels because peasant's number will always be dropped out in for example creature banks while 7.th level creatures will almost always save their numbers.


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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2018 04:20 PM

It makes as much sense (close to none) as comparing 3 GD to 2 AD.

Both have same growth, so you put them 1v1.

If town has easier access to certain units due to costs of units/buildings, that makes the town stronger, not the unit itself.

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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 01, 2018 05:54 PM

And 1-6 lvl gives good damage. I use all 1-7 lvl, I never join different races, I will join the same race. I get a full growth troops then. Lvl means HP, etc So 7 lvl grows 2 creatures in a week. Maybe you never use 1-2 lvl, and you joined horde 6 lvl, for example. You are losing. And you forgot Inferno is 2nd the best team, and the worst team is necropolis. But JVC is dead* with H4, where are combination of Inferno and Necropolis, but Devil hasn't Hydra, Sprite or Cerberus ability or it become very powerful creature, if MOD makes them.

*He can't tell to you that Inferno is 2nd the best team. I wonder you never read about adobe documents, etc Axiom I don't need explain to pussy
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