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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Possible creature upgrade specialists
Thread: Possible creature upgrade specialists This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 08:12 PM

Possible creature upgrade specialists



So, Phoenix thread gave me an idea. If there are missing specialists, how about missing upgrading specialists? I mean in the way
Gelu can upgrade Archers or Marksmen and Wood Elves or Grand Elves to Sharpshooters.
Dracon can upgrade monks or zealots and magi or arch magi to enchanters.

Lets think how this kind of hero could be balanced and which other ones would be flavorful.

I would think to maintain the pattern, they would have to upgrade some normal creatures into a special neutral creature.

Some I can think of (Names just for understandability):

Diamondguy:
Can upgrade Stone Golems or Iron Golems and Earth Elementals or Magma elementals into Diamond Golems.
(This one is one of my fauvories since Gold and Diamond golems don't get "Normal" recruiting places, and neither do stone and iron golems for that matter.)

Boarguy:
Can upgrade Wolf Riders or Wolf Raiders and Gnolls or Gnoll Captains into Boars.

Trollguy:
Can upgrade Dendroid Guards or Dendroid Soldiers and Basilisks or Greater Basilisks into Trolls.

Mummyperson:
Can upgrade Walking Dead or Zombies and Harpies or Harpy Hags into Mummies.

Rustperson:
Can upgrade Green or Gold dragons and Red and Black dragons to Rust Dragons.

Crystalperson:
Can upgrade Devils or Arch Devils and Firebirds or Phoenixes to Crystal Dragons.

And for the lulz:
Peasantgal:
Can turn any creature into Peasants.

* * *

These are just some prompts, I'm sure you can think of better ones, so let's see them :V
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 03, 2018 09:46 PM

Turning devils into dragons is a bit stretched from a logical point of view, but all other specialists are a viable option

Also, it would be even better if the peasant specialist turned the ENEMY's creatures into peasants rather than her own

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted October 03, 2018 10:22 PM

NimoStar said:

Boarguy:
Can upgrade Wolf Riders or Wolf Raiders [...] into Boars.


Are you sure you don't mean downgrade?

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Nimostar
Nimostar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 10:42 PM

The crystal one was because they are also red and look evil, but if being dragons is the priority I guess it could be bone-ghost dragons instead. Although I was saving those for azure dragons :v

Well, about raiders and boars... boars are worse in abilities, but have better stats.

Honorable mention to some other ideas like turning pixies into faerie dragons and centaurs into nomads :v

And i cant imagine how turning your opponents creture would work... if instant upon combat clearly it would be the most overpowered hero ever, lol.

But maybe Peasant Specialty can be like necromancy but for peasants?

Raising their dead army as peasants would surely be the ultimate humilliation tactic.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 03, 2018 11:28 PM

Quote:
And i cant imagine how turning your opponents creture would work... if instant upon combat clearly it would be the most overpowered hero ever, lol.


yes

Quote:
But maybe Peasant Specialty can be like necromancy but for peasants?


yes

Quote:
Raising their dead army as peasants would surely be the ultimate humilliation tactic.


LOL humiliating indeed, but fun

Also, centaur into nomads sounds right, but pixies into faeries??? Unless you want to totally break the game I advise against it

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Nimostar
Nimostar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 11:34 PM


Maybe you need 100 pixies for 1 faerie dragon and still have to pay the price difference. That would be balanced and take weeks.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 03, 2018 11:56 PM

true

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted October 04, 2018 02:55 PM

NimoStar said:

Diamondguy:
Can upgrade Stone Golems or Iron Golems and Earth Elementals or Magma elementals into Diamond Golems.
(This one is one of my fauvories since Gold and Diamond golems don't get "Normal" recruiting places, and neither do stone and iron golems for that matter.)





NimoStar said:

Boarguy:
Can upgrade Wolf Riders or Wolf Raiders and Gnolls or Gnoll Captains into Boars.


Wolves ok, but gnolls' a little weird. Orcs maybe?

NimoStar said:

Trollguy:
Can upgrade Dendroid Guards or Dendroid Soldiers and Basilisks or Greater Basilisks into Trolls.


No. I'd say Ogre/Ogre Magi.

NimoStar said:

Mummyperson:
Can upgrade Walking Dead or Zombies and Harpies or Harpy Hags into Mummies.


Just Walking Dead/Zombies.

NimoStar said:

Rustperson:
Can upgrade Green or Gold dragons and Red and Black dragons to Rust Dragons.


Maybe divide this in two: One upgrades Green/Gold in Faerie and the other hero Red/Black in Rust.

NimoStar said:

Crystalperson:
Can upgrade Devils or Arch Devils and Firebirds or Phoenixes to Crystal Dragons.


No. Very unrelated.

Bonus idea:
Rogueperson:
Can upgrade Pikemen/Halberdiers, Dwarves/Battle Dwarves, Gremlins/Master Gremlins, Goblins/Hobgoblins and Gnolls/Gnoll Marauders to Rogues. No idea what town could this hero be. Castle, Rampart or Dungeon maybe.

Nomadperson:
Can transform Pikemen/Halberdiers and Archers/Marksmen in Nomads. Castle Hero.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2018 03:05 PM

Quote:
Wolves ok, but gnolls' a little weird. Orcs maybe?


Orcs are already better than boars... maybe if each could be 2 boars.
I figured, Gnolls kinda look like boars already :V

About other things you didn't like, keep in mind I was trying to stick with the original formula of having two creatures each of differewnt towns be convertible, as with Gelu and Dracon. This sometimes leads to flavor being a little off, I will admit, and sometimes a single creature seems more logical.

But I don't think phoenixes and crystal dragons are so unrelated. If you look at Crystal Dragon, it looks basically like an avian-type dinosaur. Also sand+fire = crystal.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 04, 2018 03:16 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 15:17, 04 Oct 2018.

The only specials that really makes sense to me are Golem/Iron Golem/Gold Golem -> Diamond Golem and Walking Dead/Zombie -> Mummy. The others don't really fit or is actually a downgrade imo.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 04, 2018 03:40 PM

Quote:
Can upgrade Pikemen/Halberdiers, Dwarves/Battle Dwarves, Gremlins/Master Gremlins, Goblins/Hobgoblins and Gnolls/Gnoll Marauders to Rogues. No idea what town could this hero be. Castle, Rampart or Dungeon maybe


It fits into Dungeon, but I would scribble dwarves and gremlins out of the list because dwarves are stronger than rogues, and gremlins are shooters and you're kinda ruining them by turning them into rogues

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2018 04:39 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 16:40, 04 Oct 2018.

I would strike out the dwarves as well plus they are not very "rogue-like", but gremlins are OK. Take into account they may be unupgraded, also even with upgraded version they are much tougher as rogues. And gremlin cloak actually looks a bit like the rogue one : P

Golem one can actually be two, one with stone and iron golems into Gold golems and another one with earth and magma elementals into Diamond golems.

And don't tell me the one with riders and boars don't fit! Come on, they are even goblins in both cases!
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 04, 2018 04:54 PM

Um, I'm not saying they don't fit because they do. But like someone else has already mentioned boars are weaker than wolf riders, so that's a downgrade instead of an upgrade

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Data Modeler
posted October 04, 2018 05:35 PM

for my share some of these ideas are a bit far fetched,
bear in mind the Sharpshooters and Enchanters makes sense because an Archer or a Wood Elf can go to the Forest Guard to be a Sharpshooter, or a Monk or Mage can go to Bracada to be an Enchanter,

however how does a Gnoll go somewhere to become a Boar, or a Dendroid or Basilisk become a Troll, or a Devil or Phoenix become a Crystal Dragon, it smells like a bit of shapeshifting I would say which you could upgrade a Gog to a Titan or somewhat lol

also the Boar Riders are actually Orcs cheers lol
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fiorin
fiorin


Promising
Known Hero
ctrl + s
posted October 04, 2018 06:11 PM

verriker said:
for my share some of these ideas are a bit far fetched,
bear in mind the Sharpshooters and Enchanters makes sense because an Archer or a Wood Elf can go to the Forest Guard to be a Sharpshooter, or a Monk or Mage can go to Bracada to be an Enchanter,

however how does a Gnoll go somewhere to become a Boar, or a Dendroid or Basilisk become a Troll, or a Devil or Phoenix become a Crystal Dragon, it smells like a bit of shapeshifting I would say which you could upgrade a Gog to a Titan or somewhat lol

also the Boar Riders are actually Orcs cheers lol


Well said

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2018 12:23 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 12:34, 05 Oct 2018.

Well in Wog you bring an army to an altar and they become random creatures and nobody complained :V

Goblins and Orcs to mee look like they are the same, they are both green-skinned warrior humanoids. I have not seen in which way they are a different species.
In fact, orcs look completely different in H4... as grey-brown boar-people.

Also:
According to Lord of the Rings lore, Trolls were made out of Ents. That's why their skill is so strong. Even orcs were made from elves.

And in Ashan lore basically all magical creatures were made by magi crossing creatures with humans, including minotaurs, and the weird mouse people...

...and in the original lore, angels are robots, and devils are aliens...

And as I said birds (Phoenix) evolved from dinosaurs (Dragons)

Evolution is "shapeshifting" ;=)

Those were only models for the mechanic however... I do agree that turning Ogres into Trolls look better.



Boars are not weaker than Wolf Riders in every respect. To the contrary, they have 50% more health.
But it could upgrade Goblins instead.

And as you can see, the rider is based on the goblin model.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 05, 2018 12:39 PM

Phoenixes and Crystal Dragons could, somehow, be related indeed, but Devils and Dragons? Come on

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted October 05, 2018 12:52 PM

Why would you compare the unupgraded unit anyway?

A rider can still become a raider, but a boar will always be a bore.

Also while not very invested in the discussion, I don't think alluding to the absurd strengthens your proposals.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Data Modeler
posted October 05, 2018 02:11 PM

according to any information orcs are not the same as the goblins or the elves and dendroids are not the trolls, it is the Heroes of Might and Magic lore not the Lord of the Rings lore or whatelse lol
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2018 02:42 PM

Quote:
Phoenixes and Crystal Dragons could, somehow, be related indeed, but Devils and Dragons? Come on


You are probly right.

But the name Dracul, for example, meant "Son of the Dragon" but its meaning was changed to "Son of the Devil".

In the Bible, the Dragon is strongly associated with apocalypse and the devil too :V



Quote:
Why would you compare the unupgraded unit anyway?

A rider can still become a raider, but a boar will always be a bore.


A rider has to pay to become a Raider and you need a stronghold with an upgraded building, while a hero with the Boar specialty could upgrade riders into boars without a Stronghold town.

Quote:
according to any information orcs are not the same as the goblins or the elves and dendroids are not the trolls, it is the Heroes of Might and Magic lore not the Lord of the Rings lore or whatelse lol


And the boar rider is a goblin, not an orc as I have already shown. Even the feet is goblin feet, not Orc feet. So the riders and goblins are related to the boar riders.

But well, since you care so dearly for the lore specifics, I propose that Golems be upgradeable into Archangels by Escaton the Destroyer (http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Escaton)
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