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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Poorly designed heroes i Heroes 3?
Thread: Poorly designed heroes i Heroes 3? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 16, 2019 10:09 PM

I wish people commenting how H3 is unbalanced had played H2 at competitive level so they could see how H3 is in fact so much better  balanced, while still keeping intact each faction unique flavor. It is a matter of making the right steps in a context, developers don't jump from bike to airplanes. When you criticize H3, look at H2 first.

Then at H4.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted April 16, 2019 10:38 PM

obviously we're not seeing things the same way. It's OK. We can agree to disagree.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 16, 2019 10:47 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:05, 16 Apr 2019.

@Hourglass
Thanks for taking the time to comment on many of the heroes. I'm glad we agree on most of them, though I can also understand your point of view on those we disagree on.
In regards to Black Dragons, Gold Dragons and Magic Elementals I meant that Rampart has a Fortune, a Cure and a Slayer specialist, but neither of those spells will affect Gold Dragons. Dungeon has two Resurrection and a Stone Skin specialist, but Black Dragons are not affected. Ash with Bloodlust -> Efreet. Conflux with Bloodlust, Haste and Stone Skin.
Since these heroes specialise in a certain spell, you want to use this spell reasonably often, but when 1 or more creatures are immune to it, you feel less inclined to cast it. Same with mass Precision VS mass Bless, what would you prefer a spell that affects 1-3 creatures or one that affects all your creatures?  

@Salamandre
Well Heroes 3 is much better than both Heroes 2 and 4 imo, still there is always room for improvement. The perfect game does'nt exist and in fact it never will and that is probably a good thing, so we can keep the game alive and evolving.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 16, 2019 10:54 PM

To put it bluntly, I don't understand your position. You keep bickering how this or that detail is not what you want - which is exactly also my belief - yet you have some sort of ideological repulsion to play and work with the only H3 version - WoG - where you CAN actually design your Heroes game, up to slightest details. Then play it.

You realize that Hota will never rework neither magic nor specialties, right?  

So what's next, then.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 16, 2019 11:04 PM

It's okay you dont have to understand my position.
I have changed a lot of stuff and I will probably keep doing that, still I'm interested to hear what other people think.
WoG is not for me, it just seems like a big mess to me.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2019 11:29 PM

Salamandre said:


You realize that Hota will never rework neither magic nor specialties, right?  

So what's next, then.


I was hoping they would... They did give us a hint that they would rework magic, didn't they?
____________
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 17, 2019 12:52 AM

phoenix4ever said:
WoG is not for me, it just seems like a big mess to me.


It's just in the first trials, believe me. Besides not playing some of the most amazing maps ever made (some by Sal) you lose some of the best solutions to some of the things you are always complaining about, like Eagle Eye, for instance. They've made the most elegant solution I ever heard about.
____________

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zombiewhacker
zombiewhacker


Adventuring Hero
posted April 17, 2019 03:10 AM

Salamandre said:
I wish people commenting how H3 is unbalanced had played H2 at competitive level so they could see how H3 is in fact so much better  balanced, while still keeping intact each faction unique flavor. It is a matter of making the right steps in a context, developers don't jump from bike to airplanes. When you criticize H3, look at H2 first.

Then at H4.

Where do you stand on HOMM4 as far as heroes skills go... was it a step forward or a step back?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 17, 2019 03:24 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:26, 17 Apr 2019.

Some things in HoMM4 were completely over the top. Also, HoMM games seem to suffer from any attempts to streamline. The more things get streamlined, the bigger fail the game turns into.

Pollo2002 said:
So I super disagree there.


I am not sure I follow. What do you exactly disagree with? Seems to me like you just disagreed and then repeated what I said ? That HoMM 6 was a bland failure?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 17, 2019 09:00 PM

phoenix4ever said:
....WoG is not for me, it just seems like a big mess to me.
As a "H3 Complete" lover from the bottom of my heart, I can tell you I thought exactly the same....until I took some time to just realize how easy you can activate or disable WoG options you just don't like to see in your game. Took me some days...after that, I completely stopped playing H3 "normal" (except replaying some of the greatest maps ever created) and changed to WoG...for about 3 more years until i stopped playing H3 at all...
I just remember the possibility to collect ballistas and/or tents....this was so funnny...
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted April 18, 2019 06:21 AM

Doomforge said:

I am not sure I follow. What do you exactly disagree with? Seems to me like you just disagreed and then repeated what I said ? That HoMM 6 was a bland failure?


I disagree Homm 6 failed because it was "balanced" or "simplified" Homm 6 failed because it doesnt even try to be a strategy game (or i want to think they didnt try because if that was a try...)
____________

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 18, 2019 09:37 PM

Anyone have any good ideas for a new specialty for Inteus? I tried Curse and Misfortune, but they does'nt seem to work… I guess Land Mine would work, but it also feels like a useless spell and like Fire Wall AI can't cast it.
Ugh I hate the specialties of the elementalists, they all feel subpar...

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted April 18, 2019 10:58 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Anyone have any good ideas for a new specialty for Inteus? I tried Curse and Misfortune, but they does'nt seem to work… I guess Land Mine would work, but it also feels like a useless spell and like Fire Wall AI can't cast it.
Ugh I hate the specialties of the elementalists, they all feel subpar...


How about fireball? Or maybe navigation? None of Conflux's heroes have navigation... Even Intelligence or Sorcery could work for him.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 18, 2019 11:15 PM

Yeah I will probably make him a Fireball specialist, even though it is a bit boring, already Xarfax and Manfred in HotA have that specialty, but it's the only one that seems to fit.
Elementalists are supposed to start with Wisdom and an elemental magic, so I guess Intelligence, Sorcery etc. are out.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted April 19, 2019 12:22 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Yeah I will probably make him a Fireball specialist, even though it is a bit boring, already Xarfax and Manfred in HotA have that specialty, but it's the only one that seems to fit.
Elementalists are supposed to start with Wisdom and an elemental magic, so I guess Intelligence, Sorcery etc. are out.


If you want to surprise pleasantly - especially when it comes to games - you need to get out of the pattern a little, to go crazy a little. That's why you could give him sorcery without any problem. And even navigation would be good. Navigation is one of those skills that are neither good, or bad, so you won't go wrong if you give him navigation. It's weird, and it's not really useless, which makes it cool IMO

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 19, 2019 08:18 AM

Perhaps, I'm still thinking about it...
In fact elementalists does'nt need to start with an elemental magic, as they can buy it from their university anyway.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted April 19, 2019 09:17 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Anyone have any good ideas for a new specialty for Inteus? I tried Curse and Misfortune, but they does'nt seem to work… I guess Land Mine would work, but it also feels like a useless spell and like Fire Wall AI can't cast it.
Ugh I hate the specialties of the elementalists, they all feel subpar...


How about one of these:

1) Land mine. Make it cast the spell freely at the very beginning of the battle. That's how I would change some of the other spell specialists as well. Suddenly Daremyth and Melodia would become much more enjoyable to play.

2) How about Frenzy? It's somewhat similiar to Bloodlust. Yes, I know you might by thinking the fact you couln't target Frenzy to Phoenixies, (you can target Firebirds), but I would say that's an extremely minor thing, as one would like to target the spell on Sprites or ranged unit anyway.

3) Break the borders of the game and allow him to start with Summon Fire elemental. That would go nicely with his lore. Imo you wouldn't necessary need to make the spell increase it's strength over time, but there's something special of having it right from the start.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted April 19, 2019 09:21 AM

I subscribe to Hourglass' point #3. That's actually a good idea

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 19, 2019 09:26 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 09:35, 19 Apr 2019.

@Hourglass
1) That is actually an interesting idea, unfortunately I don't know how to implement it.

2) I don't think a Frenzy specialty exists. Would it be the typical +3% per level with greater bonus to low level units or how would it work?

3) Starting with Fire Elemental also sounds interesting and I agree he does'nt need any more bonus than that.

Edit: Frenzy is a mind spell, so it would'nt affect any of the elementals or phoenixes, in fact it would only affect pixies/sprites and firebirds, so probably not a good special...

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted April 19, 2019 09:41 AM

phoenix4ever said:


Edit: Frenzy is a mind spell, so it would'nt affect any of the elementals or phoenixes, in fact it would only affect pixies/sprites and firebirds, so probably not a good special...


Yey,  just realized this too.

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