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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Thane and Iona
Thread: Thane and Iona This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 28, 2019 10:45 AM

Poll Question:
Thane and Iona

Tower has two nearly identical heroes: Thane and Iona, both with specialty genies, both starts with Magic Arrow and both starts with Scholar.
How would you feel about making one of them a gremlin specialist instead? (The amount of starting gremlins could be lowered, to not make the hero too powerful at the start.)

Responses:
Keep them as they are
Make Thane a gremlin specialist
Make Iona a gremlin specialist
I don't care
 View Results!

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2019 01:18 PM
Edited by monere at 13:48, 28 Sep 2019.

Voted "I don't care" because none of them suits my playing style, even if you make the changes. Probably in competitive (PvP) games this is important because gremlins are one of the best tier 1 creatures, and having a gremlin specialist will help Tower clear the map incredibly well... probably. In that case, probably Thane should be made gremlin specialist (Iona looks like a genie more than Thane), but since I'm not playing any of them I couldn't care less

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted September 28, 2019 01:40 PM

Voted Iona to go for Gremlin specialist. I mean why have twice nearly the same hero? There are several more examples of this, like Conflux heroes.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
Chosen of Innos
posted September 28, 2019 02:13 PM

RerryR said:
Voted Iona to go for Gremlin specialist. I mean why have twice nearly the same hero? There are several more examples of this, like Conflux heroes.


Ditto.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 28, 2019 02:28 PM

RerryR and Drakon-Deus I agree with you, too similar heroes are a bit boring. Especially the Conflux heroes and some others comes to mind.
I was actually thinking of making Thane a gremlin specialist, Iona has Intelligence, which seems a bit more fitting for a genie specialist than a gremlin specialist.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 28, 2019 03:06 PM

Gremlin specialist would be a significant buff and Tower is already the strongest town in HotA in my opinion.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 28, 2019 03:13 PM

Starting gremlins could be lowered for all Tower heroes, similar to what HotA did with Troglodytes from 30-40 to 20-30.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted September 28, 2019 03:40 PM

Otuken said:
Gremlin specialist would be a significant buff and Tower is already the strongest town in HotA in my opinion.


Okay, then we better stay at the old and boring two Genie heroes

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2019 04:01 PM
Edited by monere at 16:04, 28 Sep 2019.

RerryR said:
Okay, then we better stay at the old and boring two Genie heroes
I don't think too many people are playing any of them, though. Not as main heroes, anyway. I mean, genies themselves are weak as phuck, why would you play a genie specialist then? All other tier 5 specialists are better than those from Tower. Speaking of which, do you (or anyone else) have a link to a PvP game where Thane / Iona has won against other heroes in mid to late game (month 3+)? I'd like to see how the genies have fared under these "specialists"

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 28, 2019 04:22 PM

Why would anyone pick a high level creature specialist as main?

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2019 04:59 PM

Otuken said:
Why would anyone pick a high level creature specialist as main?
not sure if you're asking honestly, or if you're being sarcastic, but I'll answer to the honest part: because they like that creature, and because high level creature specialists are strong heroes. Think Alkin, Fafner, Tamika, Monere, Rashka, Ryland, Dace, etc.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 28, 2019 05:18 PM

Would be. Didn't know how to create a legion of Gremlins. Easy! Example of Dragon Utopia, dragons kill Gremlins, you don't resurrect Genies but Gremlins. It doesn't matter that 3-6 Genies are dead. The main thing Gremlins grow so much. So their special ability helped. It's an example, yes you will learn soon.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 28, 2019 08:19 PM

High level creature specialists are terrible because neither they buff their creatures enough nor they start with a powerstack unlike low level creature specialists.

A lvl 10 hero that lvl5 specialists give only additional +2 at/def buff and it is laughably low! Some small artifacts do already give at/def bonus to all army without level requesting.

There are exceptions though like how Shiva is better hero than Neela.  

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 28, 2019 08:34 PM

I don't really agree with that. Sure you can have a level 1 power stack for early game with Shakti or Gretchin for example, but level 1 units tends to be destroyed sooner or later and then you have no specialty.
"High level creature specialists" can also be good, Tamika gets a higher bonus than Straker, Charna,  Vokial and Moandor for example.
Getting extra defense for high level units can also mean you lose some units less, which is nice.
Then there are also the skills the heroes start with, would you for example prefer Wystan or Alkin? I'd say the "high level creature specialist" is better in this case.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 28, 2019 10:29 PM

Otuken said:
Why would anyone pick a high level creature specialist as main?


starting skill combinations.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2019 11:41 PM

Otuken said:
High level creature specialists are terrible because neither they buff their creatures enough nor they start with a powerstack unlike low level creature specialists.

A lvl 10 hero that lvl5 specialists give only additional +2 at/def buff and it is laughably low! Some small artifacts do already give at/def bonus to all army without level requesting.

There are exceptions though like how Shiva is better hero than Neela.  
I always forget that the pros play this game really strategically: end it in day 1 if possible. Yeah, in these circumstances high level creature specialists are garbage, but they have not been intended for this type of gameplay (hence why they get their bonuses later than the lower creature specialists). In late game though Fafner - with all the retarded skills he usually gets, like Resistance, Scholar, Eagle Eye, Tactics, etc - will beat the snow out of Shakti and other nuisances of heroes. I have played last year a level 60+ Tamika against a level 70 someone (I don't remember which hero, but also a powerful one) and Tamika's 2100 Dread Knights were dealing something like 150k-300k damage on the other hero's best creature (it might have been the Titans, I don't remember correctly, but a strong creature nonetheless). I also may be off about the numbers, but I'm not off by much, you can trust me on this one because I usually play the same things over and over again and I got used to the numbers.

Anyway, the point is that if you play the game to finish it as soon as you've acquired 1 Angel and 2 wyverns sure, level 5-6 creature specialists will not shine, but they have been introduced in the game for a reason (to shine in mid to late game), and they're doing a great job then.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2019 11:51 PM

Doomforge said:
starting skill combinations.
play WoG and you won't have to worry about getting the skills you want because you WILL get ALL skills that you want (in WoG you can get 19, or 20 skills if I remember correctly, and many of them have been improved in such a way that I never engage in the final battle without acquiring skills like eagle eye or first aid).

And before you repeat the same boring mantra (where's the challenge and tactical aspect of the game if you can get all skills and spells that you want) I will reply with: the challenge lies in newer and/or improved mechanics as well as in the multitude of customizable options of the game. In WoG you'll be able to transform the entire H3 game into a different one that will give you all sorts of challenges. If you've played (not tried once for a few hours and done, but actually played the game for a few years) you will know what I mean. And if you haven't played it yet but are thinking about repeating the idiot player's mantra, don't! Play WoG first and then come contradict me. Also, I wasn't calling you idiot, I was speaking in general

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 29, 2019 12:18 AM

There is also +1 speed to consider which can be relevant.

E.g. Fortress vs. Necropolis match up, +1 speed to your flies and suddenly you go first in a final battle as the attacker, which can be a decisive advantage.

Similarly for Stronghold vs. Tower, when taking Angels into account then either with terrain advantage or as the attacker you can be guaranteed to go first with just +1 speed to your birds.

For games where the offense and armorer advantage never gets to develop enough to be that important, +1 speed might make a larger difference.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2019 03:01 AM

Low level creature specialists are ALWAYS better than high level creature specialists at developing their respective creatures. For example Nymus's +2 attack boost to pit fiends/lords would be not equal to Ignatius's +2 attack boost to Imps.

+2 attack bonus to pits mean just boosting %15 of their offense power while +2 attack bonus is %100 boost for Imps' offensive power!!!Other advatages of specializing low level units are additional dwellings, starting with powerstack, benefiting these bonuses even in initial rounds and affect of health artifacts considering +1 healt boost mean increasing healt of all Imps %25.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 29, 2019 10:05 AM

except that in mid to late game all these powerstacks, and dwellings and whatnot will not matter 5hit because they are level 1 creatures. And why mention nymus anyway? There are better creature specialists than nymus, so why not give those as examples? ... I'll keep my opinion that high level creature specialists are worth more than tier 1 and 2 specialists.

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