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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Worst town in HotA?
Thread: Worst town in HotA? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2019 09:12 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:13, 30 Oct 2019.

Otuken said:
Inferno has one of the best unupgraded army


Hm. I'd rather say Inferno desperately needs the specials. It's not like Liches, Skeletons or Death Knights...

You see, without upgrades:
- Imps are worthless
- Gogs are just below average t2 shooters
- Dogs, Demons and Pit Fiends are OKAY but they are just fairly slow walkers with mediocre stats
- Efreets are OK, so are Devils, but the cost of Devils is IMHO outragous (15000 gold and 20 mercury for a basic T7 dwelling!?).

Whole appeal of Inferno is with strong, fast Efreets/Devils since they are flyers with huge speed. But like Bloodsucker said, it's better to take those troops for yourselves out of weak heroes' cold dead hands.

Otuken said:
plus easy accessibility to lvl6 and relatively easy lvl7


Level 6 is fine, 3 mercury/gems is easy to get.
Level 7, as noted above, is a massive issue, so I can't agree about it being relatively easy (15000 gold , 20 mercury... this is really too much).

Otuken said:
A careful Inferno player can clear maps faster than any other town also considering how easily can demoniacs learn logistic it makes pretty much difference.


Demoniacs are so-so at best. Their specials are heavily unimpressive.

Otuken said:
Also Demon stack helps a lot breaking creture/resource banks and dragon utopias if used properly.


It's not like you can't use them, yes, but all demon raising does is changing a weaker HP base (lower A/D) into a slightly stronger HP base, ie. changing Imps into Demons benefits you since the transformed HP is more effective as Demons have better A/D.

It takes a lot of external dwellings, joiners, and a lot of planning to really make use of this.

Otuken said:
Stats say nothing because it is not a game that just concluded with a final meeting between all tiers of your starting town units (per x) vs all tiers of your opponent's starting town units (per x).


Higher stats will help you with nearly every point of the game, assuming whatever you're after on the adventure map is guarded.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 30, 2019 10:49 PM
Edited by Otuken at 22:50, 30 Oct 2019.

Imps are suck but even they have pros too. Imps came abundant via starting heroes, they are faster than most of other lvl1 foot soldiers and they benefit too much from health artifacts. Their dwelling has good change to appear in random map generator etc...Also who cares about lvl1 units after a few rounds? In multiplayer nobody is really able to spare their money to buy their lvl1 units.

There are four lvl2 shooters which are Gog, Archer, Lizardman, Storm Ele no idea how did you consider it below average. Thye don't immiadetaly need upgrade like Archer or Air Elemental and they are more durable than both Marksman and Air Elemental and they become superior than Lizardman once upgraded.

Both hellhounds/cerberi and Pit Lord are fast units as walker and neither of them is bad unit. I can even say cerberi is the best lvl3 unit and Pit Lords have one of the best ability among other creatures.

Most of lvl7 dwelling costs are alread as expensive as Forsaken Palace and some of them even require mage guild lvl 2-3, only unacceptable thing for me is how expensive is upgrading it.  

Demon farming is not just turning low level units into demons. Another purpose is sucking damage against neutral creatures/banks and finishing battles with almost zero casualties. Thats why only few people can use demon farming properly. For example there is no reason to buy Imps/Gogs then turning them demons against weak neutral creatures. I would like to write it more but it is really out of topic.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2019 02:23 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 02:24, 31 Oct 2019.

Quote:
all demon raising does is changing a weaker HP base (lower A/D) into a slightly stronger HP base, ie. changing Imps into Demons benefits you since the transformed HP is more effective as Demons have better A/D.


All this shows is that ion your "stat creatures" frenzy you neglect to learn the base mechanics of the game.

Do you think the Skeleton Transformer is this too?
How about Necromancy?
Pretty sure Necropolis has even lower base stats than Inferno...
And is the best town in the base game.

Anyways, what is important about Demon Farming is not just "upgrading attack and defense ratio", but converting creature that CAN'T be a part of your army due to sevel slots restriction, into ones that can.

Creatures from banks, neutral dwellings, and even other towns, can be turned into demons for free in combat.

This advantage can easily become overwhelming, since, as long as you can realiably source even one extra town of not-your-type, you can add this growth to your main army, while the opponent will not.

So no, if one thinks in terms of maps with these elements, there is abolutely no way Inferno is the weakest town.

In conclusion, with special abilities like that, aggregation of creature stats means nothing.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 31, 2019 08:39 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 08:52, 31 Oct 2019.

NimoStar said:
All this shows is that ion your "stat creatures" frenzy you neglect to learn the base mechanics of the game.


This is a really funny comment considering the battle is just a GUI/visual addon for a formulatic A/D/HP comparison of the sides. This is exactly what the game mechanics are - number crunching.

NimoStar said:

Do you think the Skeleton Transformer is this too?
How about Necromancy?
Pretty sure Necropolis has even lower base stats than Inferno...
And is the best town in the base game.


Pretty sure you're not supposed to make demons out of neutrals and enemy units. What kind of comparison is that?

Let me just quote Bloodsucker from another thread:

bloodsucker said:
Marius can't ever raise demons at the same pace as a Necro can gather skeletons. One needs to lose his own creatures to raise demons, so even if you have Diplomacy and Health artifacts, it would still be impossible to get more HP of demons then of skeletons, specially in SoD.
Then there are three quite common artifacts that increase Necromancy while the only thing that increases demon farming is Grail in Inferno and that's rare and sucks. Even if I was playing Inferno I would still prefer to build it in Tower, Conflux or Castle, by this order.


And that's that.

NimoStar said:
Anyways, what is important about Demon Farming is not just "upgrading attack and defense ratio", but converting creature that CAN'T be a part of your army due to sevel slots restriction, into ones that can. Creatures from banks, neutral dwellings, and even other towns, can be turned into demons for free in combat.


This is, again, based on assumption that you have those creatures available (captured extra towns, have the gold to recruit extra units, got joiners, or a map riddled with tier 1-3 dwellings), have the neutrals that allow you to transform them (sometimes the next neutral stack is quite far away...), etc.

It is exactly NOT like Necromancy which is an automated +skeleton bonus after each battle. This takes way more planning and you actually lose creatures you're transforming, as opposed to simply gaining skeletons.

What I feel you're missing here is that it's a trade-off. You literally trade one troop for another - but not in an automated fashion, you need to kill the stack completely in a fight, preferably with neutrals - can't be done at will, you need to have neutrals, and if they are not slow walkers you also need a mean to prevent them from killing your own troops (say a blind spell), and a way to kill yours (in hota this is done with Magogs, in SoD it was pretty tricky at times). While this sometimes allows you to build a powerstack, it takes some time, skill and a proper map to do it. And it's still a slow walker, so it's arguably the worst kind of a powerstack.

NimoStar said:
So no, if one thinks in terms of maps with these elements, there is abolutely no way Inferno is the weakest town.


Then why is it IIRC the worst town on multiplayer winrate? Can't find the link, I'd have to ask Salamandre or look for it. I'll edit the post if I find it.

Quote:
In conclusion, with special abilities like that, aggregation of creature stats means nothing.


I must say I completely disagree. A simple test proves the above statement wrong and silly: mod your game, halve inferno's A/D stats, and try to achieve the same winratio.  If stats mean nothing, this shouldn't be of any factor. Which we both know it will.

Or, if the above is too blunt for you, maybe this will convince you otherwise:



The more the A-D difference changes, the more effective HP your armies have, which can be simplified as extra creatures (well, almost, since they don't do the extra damage, but you get my drift). Which is what you're expected of those "non-stat" unit conversion specials: to strenghten your army, one way or another.

Remember, unlike your statement, the game operates on formulas and compares numbers. This is exactly what "mechanics" means. If you feed it bigger numbers, it will sway the chance of winning (reducing all enemy HP units to zero) in a rather obvious way.

In my opinion, the massive loss of weekly damage/health generation is not worth the special of demon creation, nor the specials of the units themselves (which is no-retaliation for two units). So if I were to pick between Castle and Inferno? Castle every time. Now if we factor HotA buffs in (AoE magogs and -2 luck being good), it gets less terrible, but still the difference is too big.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2019 10:47 AM

Doomforge said:

This is a really funny comment considering the battle is just a GUI/visual addon for a formulatic A/D/HP comparison of the sides. This is exactly what the game mechanics are - number crunching.


Maybe in case you always choose auto combat...

Doomforge said:

Pretty sure you're not supposed to make demons out of neutrals and enemy units. What kind of comparison is that?


Huh?

Doomforge said:

What I feel you're missing here is that it's a trade-off. You literally trade one troop for another - but not in an automated fashion, you need to kill the stack completely in a fight, preferably with neutrals - can't be done at will,


You can kill them at will by using Meteor Shower for instance.

Be that as it may, Inferno might be one of the weaker towns, definitely challenging to play, I just don't think it is the weakest.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2019 12:13 PM

since the debate between Inferno and Fortress is so heated I recommend that 2 equally skilled players go at it by these rules...

1) every player plays 10 games with each of the 2 factions against the other player who, obviously, picks the other faction.

2) both players play 10 games on one of the following maps: random map, standard multiplayer map, and also the favorite map of each player (only 20 games in case the favorite map of both players is the same)

Sure, this is a huge amount of games to be played, amounting to 1000s of hours of playing, but it's the most accurate way of telling which of the 2 towns is weeker. I would so love to see the stats of such a contest...

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 31, 2019 12:43 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 12:43, 31 Oct 2019.

gatecrasher said:
You can kill them at will by using Meteor Shower for instance.


Against neutrals.

You can't meteor shower them on the adventure map.

It's just another layer of IFs.
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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 31, 2019 01:32 PM
Edited by Otuken at 13:38, 31 Oct 2019.

Pros of Demon Farming:

-Breaking banks in early rounds with less casualties which no town is really capable without expert earth magic.

-Being able to draining maps with just Pit Lord-Demon combos against not strong walkers because Pit Lords will always resurrect some of dead stacks of Demons.

-Unlike necromany, it is nothing to do with level of heroes.

-Powerstack advantage; It is the most important one because size of your demon stack will decide how fast can you break dragon utopias and once you accomplished it is very hard to lose a game. Demon is below average lvl4 unit for a reason because otherwise Inferno would be overpowered!

---

First; Non-Inferno units which came via non-Inferno heroes should be always turned into demons regardless of power of neutral creatures.

Second: Low level high HP units such as Pikeman-dwarf should be turned into demons regardless of power of neutrals if their dwellings are exist.

Third: Free Imps (via heroes or dwellings) and dogs (via heroes) should be turned into demons

Fourth: Dogs should be purchased and turned into demons mostly in banks and the most effective number for this task is 14, 21, 28 or 35 depends on size of neutrals and Pit Lords.

Fifth: Imps should be purchased and turned into demons

Sixth: Gog/Magog but they should not be sacrificed in most cases during neutral fights becuse it is our only shooter it is better trying to turn them into demons during fighting with enemy heroes or sieges.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 31, 2019 04:00 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 16:02, 31 Oct 2019.

Otuken said:

Fourth: Dogs should be purchased and turned into demons mostly in banks and the most effective number for this task is 14, 21, 28 or 35 depends on size of neutrals and Pit Lords.


Personally I'd rather have Cerberi. They are faster, have three-headed no-retal attack and are more effective in general.

I know you hate numbers, but here's some food for thought:



HH/Cerberi do at minimum 44 damage per population against an enemy with 20 defense. Cerberi can obviously do more, because of the three headed attack. Cerberi have 203 effective HP against an enemy with 20 ATT.


What happens when you convert them?

Well the count resurrected by pitlords is min(min([dead_count]*[dead_single_health], [pit_lord_count]*50)/35, [dead_count]) , or to make things easier - 50 HP per pitlord, extras over multipliers of 35 are discarded.

Cerberi have 13 growth with kennels and have 25 HP.

This is a total of 325 HP which can be converted into 9 demons.

9 demons will do:



which is 54 damage per 9 demons (same rules, vs. 20 DEF) and 210 effective HP.

As you noticed, you gained almost nothing regarding the bulk of the stack (210 vs 203) and 54 damage is obviously higher than 44, BUT you lose speed, no retaliation and possibly also damage if you score triple attacks.

In other words: Keeping Cerberi is a better idea than changing them to demons unless you totally want to powerstack them.

Of course one may argue that you can save the money by NOT getting the Cerberi and turning Hell Hounds into demons instead, but you only save 5 sulfur and 1500 gold on the dwelling.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 31, 2019 04:32 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 18:37, 31 Oct 2019.

In HotA I don't really see the point of converting Magogs, because they are Inferno's only shooter and with a nice area attack and Cerberi, because as Doomforge said they are faster than demons, have no retaliation and 3-headed attack.
That leaves imps/familiars, which can of course be converted, but sometimes it's nice with some "cannon fodder", so I tend to even keep them around.
Of course if I lose a stack in battle it's demon summoning time.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 31, 2019 04:37 PM

Without turning dogs into demons, demon stack does not growth efficiently much unless you are really rich and has tons of towns or HP artifacts.

Without HP artifact; 35 Imps (1750 Gold) become  4 Demon
                    11 Gogs (1375 Gold) becomes 4 Demon
                     7 Dogs (1400 Gold) becomes 5 Demon

It means for 1 demon we need 8.75 Imp, 2.75 Gog or 1.4 Dog.

Hellhounds are roughly 6 times more cost effective at turning into demons than Imps and 2 times more than gogs. I am not favour sacrificing gogs much againt neutrals since they are our the only shooter and buying Imps than turning them into demons aren't really cost effective unless we are really rich as I said.

Even if you try to keeps Cerberus they will still have to die at one point since Imps are just too weak to resist enemy assaults for a long time and Gogs don't do much due to hand-to-hand penalty it makes hellhounds the only option. Especially in banks.

You may not have time to upgrade dogs or even purchasing cerberis because it is a game racing against time with budget troubles and almost always should be prioritized to purchase high level dwellings and units first. Investing them might cause allowing enemy to build their high level dwelings before us or delaying breaking banks etc...

It is not just turning dogs into demons, it is also gatting angels/wyverns/resources with minimal casualties and it is definitely better than trading dogs in exchange of angels and vywerns and there is no better candidate for this job.



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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 31, 2019 06:34 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 18:36, 31 Oct 2019.

You do know your avatar specialises in Cerberi right?, and you still choose to sacrifice them, poor Cerberi.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2019 06:49 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:58, 31 Oct 2019.

Quote:
Pretty sure you're not supposed to make demons out of neutrals and enemy units. What kind of comparison is that?


Doomforge, your misguided love of numerical oversimplification blinds you to the truth.

This just further proves it.

To say tht you aren't suppossed to make demons out of neutrals or creatures from other towns, is like saying you arent suppossed to turn peasants into skeletons with the Skeleton Converter:

Utter, absolute, nonsense.

As I explained turning neutrals and other town's creatures is the *BEST* use of demon farming, since it turns out-of-army creatures into inside-army creatures, thus effectively increasing your maximum total army power.

And, ypu can kill anything yourself with any opponent. Even without spell points you could use magog's splash damage to kill your own units, this is even easier in HotA due to the new way of shooting.

You want numbers?

There is a single number that matters for pro analysis of games, and it is win/lose ratio. This is the only number really used in professional analysis of competitive games such as Starcraft.

Numerical stats of single units aren't very relevant to determine the overall strenght of a faction, since each one has unique mechanics. Inferno indeed does, as Necropolis does.

Win/loss ratio is the true statistical analysis in competitive gaming.


Playing Inferno and saying "You are not suppossed to convert other town's creatures into demons" is like playing chess and saying "You are not suppossed to make pawns into queens"

Thus, just summing up weekly creature att/def and HP and proclaiming "this town is 30% weaker" is completely worthless for such factions that don't have to rely exclusively in their weekly generation but can mobilize creatures made and gained from other sources.


Sadly, to me, Fortress probably *is* the weakest faction overall, since despite their relatively beefy lineup, they have zero exploitable specials, whereas about any other town has one or more strong ones.
Which is pretty gloomy since I really like their theme and they have nice creatures, and they weren't remade in any subsequent game (suppossedly they were genocided... but Ashan was a new world and they weren't remade there either)
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 31, 2019 07:11 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 19:13, 31 Oct 2019.

NimoStar said:

Sadly, to me, Fortress probably *is* the weakest faction overall, since despite their relatively beefy lineup, they have zero exploitable specials, whereas about any other town has one or more strong ones.
Which is pretty gloomy since I really like their theme and they have nice creatures, and they weren't remade in any subsequent game (suppossedly they were genocided... but Ashan was a new world and they weren't remade there either)

Another reason to dislike every Heroes game after 3, there is no Fortress. (And I don't count Heroes 5 dwarven Fortress, that was just really boring.)
Fortress is also one of my favorite factions, but it does feel a little subpar sometimes. I think a Mage Guild 4 would have helped them (especially the Witches) out a lot or perhaps some more HP for Wyvern Monarchs.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2019 07:25 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 19:33, 31 Oct 2019.

Yeah h5+ fortress is not even the same town.

I think they needed a characteristic specialist, "defense is our specialty" with +1 def isn't good enough. Maybe sacrificing creatures for hero experience or spell scrolls, like Stronghold gets to turn creatures into resourced.

Anyways I mod in some fortress-like scenery into H4, but can't really make a town since NWC didn't even bother including practically any of fortresses's creatures. Oh well.

But, like inspirational posts say, "don't be sad because it ended, smile because it happened" (even if as the worst competitive town : P)

***

And, on other topic: Personally I don't even like Demon Farming because it is to attention-and-effort intensive (unlike necromancy which is automatic and rewards killing all enemies efficiently), counterintuitive, and makes playing the game slower and a grind. Instead of slowing the game you are thinking "How best to kill my own creatures and raise them as demons? Is this stack number optimal for HP calculations?" etc.

Even, if I modded H3, I would make a doomforge-friendly "Stronger inferno creatures but no demon farming" mod, but I suspect it would not be popular since already "Inferno = Demon Farming" in the minds of its regular players, a legacy of 20 years.

In any case, counterintuitive and slow or not, as a strategy if well executed including raising neutral and other town creatures it can more than compensate for "less weekly att and def and hp", and not recognizing that is being stubborn.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2019 07:38 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Another reason to dislike every Heroes game after 3, there is no Fortress. (And I don't count Heroes 5 dwarven Fortress, that was just really boring.)
Fortress is also one of my favorite factions, but it does feel a little subpar sometimes. I think a Mage Guild 4 would have helped them (especially the Witches) out a lot or perhaps some more HP for Wyvern Monarchs.
yeah, the monarchs and the chaos hydras could have used +5, and +10 more HPs respectively. If you wait with the dragonflies (most of the time you do) the enemy will always act first and will either mass haste their own army so they can take down the mad cows, or - in the case of Tower / Castle - mass slow you and shoot your cows down with the many shooters. As such, I think some extra HPs for the monarchs (because they are too squishy), and for the chaos hydras (because they are the carry and they need survivability), as well as a +1 speed for each of Fortress' creature would have made this town much more playable. As a Fortress fan (my all-time favorite town in all of the HoMM installments) it hurts to fight any other faction except Stronghold. I usually have no problems against Stronghold because I act first, and because Stronghold is as slow as Fortress. But all other towns hurt as phuck

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2019 07:57 PM
Edited by gatecrasher at 20:03, 31 Oct 2019.

I for one prefer balance adjustments carried out by other means than bland changes to creature stats.

Fortress is not only about utilising Gorgons an hauling Hydras into the thick of it but also about getting Serpents and Wyverns strike first while avoiding retaliation. There really is no straightforward way.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 31, 2019 09:53 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:44, 31 Oct 2019.

NimoStar said:

To say tht you aren't suppossed to make demons out of neutrals or creatures from other towns, is like saying you arent suppossed to turn peasants into skeletons with the Skeleton Converter:

Utter, absolute, nonsense.


I think you either fail at reading comprehension, or you're just trolling. But let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

So let's address your "arguments" again...

NimoStar said:
As I explained turning neutrals and other town's creatures is the *BEST* use of demon farming, since it turns out-of-army creatures into inside-army creatures, thus effectively increasing your maximum total army power.


You cannot turn neutrals into demons unless they join you. It's basic knowledge.

You can turn neutrals into skeletons without them joining you - just by killing them.

NimoStar said:
And, ypu can kill anything yourself with any opponent.


Yes, go ahead and throw meteor showers or Magog's fireballs at your own units when fighting your actual opponent (especially: human opponent), good luck...

NimoStar said:
Even without spell points you could use magog's splash damage to kill your own units, this is even easier in HotA due to the new way of shooting.


What I meant is you need to fight neutrals to be able to turn stuff into demons. I did not mean the method you want to utilize.

Ergo, you need to have neutrals ready to be fought to turn things into demons.

Things look great in first couple weeks, but what if you already cleared the neutrals near you and there are no others nearby?

It's like I said: you need to plan ahead what things to fight and what to leave for later demon raising. It adds another layer of overcomplicated game planning which your opponent (assuming he's not playing inferno...) doesn't even have to do. Mostly because he doesn't have to fill gaps in his army, lol. Castle/Cove get your perfectly farmed demons' worth by recruiting their population.

Where the hell you get all the gold anyway to get your pop + tons of neutrals from all round + extra heroes? Guess you DID mod your game - with +4000 gold per day or something, lol.

Sometimes, there aren't any neutrals left near so you'll have to plan in advance where to move and how many turns will it take to get there.

NimoStar said:
You want numbers?

There is a single number that matters for pro analysis of games, and it is win/lose ratio. This is the only number really used in professional analysis of competitive games such as Starcraft.


Which I already quoted. Dude, inferno is last. It has the worst winrate. Are you trying to argue against your own points...?

NimoStar said:
Playing Inferno and saying "You are not suppossed to convert other town's creatures into demons" is like playing chess and saying "You are not suppossed to make pawns into queens"


Where the hell have I said something like that?

NimoStar said:
Thus, just summing up weekly creature att/def and HP and proclaiming "this town is 30% weaker" is completely worthless for such factions that don't have to rely exclusively in their weekly generation but can mobilize creatures made and gained from other sources.


Dude, you're not backing it up with ANYTHING. It's just "UH HUH YOU RAISE DEMONS DOOMFORGE IS A NUMBER CRUNCHING BIGOT". I gave you maths (MATHS ARE WORTHLESS), showed you the formula (FORMULAS ARE WORTHLESS), even calculated that turning some units (like Cerberi) into Demons does pretty much squat (CALCULATIONS ARE WORTHLESS). What you're trying to "counter" with is just poorly masked insults. Hell, I even asked you to mod your own game and reduce the A/D by 50%, it's worthless so it should be no difference right? RIGHT? lol

You are literally wasting my time. I am not going to argue about a 20 year old game with insecure trolls. Give me something that's not a joke for once, lol.

Quote:

Even, if I modded H3, I would make a doomforge-friendly "Stronger inferno creatures but no demon farming" mod, but I suspect it would not be popular since already "Inferno = Demon Farming" in the minds of its regular players, a legacy of 20 years.


A lot of players would love that. Maybe the town would stop sucking, lol. Screw demon farming if you can just get better troops right away without all the nonsense of demon farming.


Quote:
Sadly, to me, Fortress probably *is* the weakest faction overall, since despite their relatively beefy lineup, they have zero exploitable specials, whereas about any other town has one or more strong ones.


Deathstare
Multi-hex attack with no retal
Weakness+dispel on hit
Turn to stone

yeah, those are crap.
zero utility.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted October 31, 2019 10:43 PM

Doomforge said:

Then why is it IIRC the worst town on multiplayer winrate? Can't find the link, I'd have to ask Salamandre or look for it. I'll edit the post if I find it.



I'm extremly interested in this, cause huge stats fan.

Would be super nice if someonce could find MP statistics.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 31, 2019 10:51 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:58, 31 Oct 2019.

Djangoo said:

I'm extremly interested in this, cause huge stats fan.

Would be super nice if someonce could find MP statistics.


here you go:

http://www.heroes-iii.com/

check "statistics".

The site has some goofy load times so let me just post a pic:



Inferno is not only least popular, but has a poor winrate (below 50%). The site introduces a "power index" and inferno is, unsurprisingly, dead last.

(Conflux/Necro are banned so their score doesn't really count)



But hey, stats don't matter. Castle with a 40% damage advantage is totally equal to Inferno bcuz of magical demon farming. Right.

It's just popular because everyone loves playing swordsmen and cavalry in a fantasy setting. Duh.

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