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| Thread: Worst town in HotA? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Darimus
Hired Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 05:04 AM |
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New town cove is beautiful but creatures with guns seem unappropriated
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 02, 2019 08:27 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Hey Drakon-Deus you can vote back on page 1. 
Yes, I had already voted when I made the post. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 02, 2019 10:48 AM |
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Darimus said:
New town cove is beautiful but creatures with guns seem unappropriated
Welcome to the year 2012.
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Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 03:27 PM |
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Fortress is by no means bad town for multiplayer. I dont understand how you can complain about a town that lets you upgrade your shooters and build Hydras + Wyverns + Castle during week 1. Also Hydra dwelling (10k gold) + Wyvern dwelling (3,5k gold) + Citadel (2,5k gold) + Castle (5k gold) = 21k gold. Its peanuts when compared to castle town where you need to spend 20k gold for angels alone. Also, when playing castle you have to deal with a lot worse build up tree. If you want to get angels + castle week 1 you have to skip both building cavaliers and upgrading your archers. And since you are going to have a horrible week 1 if you dont upgrade your shooters to marksmans you can only dream about having angels + castle week 1 in ranked games. Not to mention that beastmasters are way stronger main heroes than knights. On poor maps fortress is stronger than castle.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 06:42 PM |
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On poor maps of course. I'd never take Lizardmen into my Fortress army. There are better ways to waste gold.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2019 10:46 PM |
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Conflux have the problem that their units without anything to write home about, i.e. Fire/Energy and Earth/Magma Elementals should at least be inexpensive.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 19, 2019 12:44 AM |
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On poor maps you may be forced to roll with pikemen, marksmen and cavaliers. it ain't so bad; pikes are pretty good, it's easy to reach a point where AI will prefer stacks of 1 pike over your big stack. First 1-2 weeks though you're essentially playing a crappy Rampart.
A bigger problem to me was always getting a better hero. Even the typical "have 8 heroes day 1" strat is going to fail if you get cursed by RNG, getting only crappy heroes and getting stuck with Valeska is miserable because you're likely to be offered leadership often, so at least two levels go to a useless skill that doesn't help you much. And without Valeska it's usually even worse.
Castle is held back literally only by RNG and crappy "bench". Unlike Cove. Obviously. Cove, however, doesn't get the dominant Tier7; sea serpents are wimpy and won't help you nearly as much as angels. Their creature bank is also pretty painful - dealing with a band of no melee penalty shooters ain't too fun, griffins on the other hand are pretty slow (the unupgraded ones) and easier to screw with.
With HOTA buffs, you may get decent mileage from magogs, but imps are terrible for "powerstacking" compared to pikes so keeping the AI occupied is harder. Also upgrading their dwelling eats mercury and you really want the devils asap so it's a sacrifice. Setting up demon farming (ie. getting magogs, recruiting imps, going for pitfiends) means you can't go for fast devils; without fast devils, your creeping will suffer, and Demoniacs aren't exactly the most reliable bunch.
Finally, inferno gets no creature bank. And we're still in creature bank meta. This heavily contributes to them sucking.
Inferno's transformation of units is essentially trading one unit for another, not getting units for free (something that a certain poster failed to acknowledge despite my best attempts, but w/e). And unlike a certain poster, I'm usually not showered with free tier 1-3 units in my games that I can happily trade for demons. To get a few demons out of, say, a bunch of zombies that you got from a dwelling, you still have to pay for them. Moreover, the amount of money paid for 1 demon using this method is actually a lot more than you'd pay in a demon dwelling, so it's not cost effective either.
So unless you're playing easy mode vs. AI, you always have something to do with money. In most games I played, you don't have enough to get a full pop AND a bunch of neutrals AND the important structures so I really like the "free units" narration but that's not exactly how it works unless you want to be dubbed the AI SLAYER. The money paid for the tier 1-3 units out of a neutral town you captured could go towards devils, castle, and a capitol, and if you have all of these there's always efreeti, cerberi and other units that have higher priority over demons because they are more effective.
if you have enough cash to buy everything and yet somehow still end with enough cash to buy EXTRA tier 1-3 units from different towns... you're probably playing easy mode. Or a stupidly rich map. Or both.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Otuken
Famous Hero
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posted November 19, 2019 01:55 AM |
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Edited by Otuken at 01:57, 19 Nov 2019.
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Doomforge said:
Inferno's transformation of units is essentially trading one unit for another, not getting units for free
Why? Why it is still so hard to understand the main point of demon farming? First this feature is SUCKS if you are in low on money and try to buy imps to turn them Demons or try to sacrifice some of your purchased units against weak neutrals.
Second (after turning your non-Inferno free units and free Imps into demons) dogs should be sacrificed in strong creature/resource banks and it means gaining resources/Angels-Wyvern-Cyclop etc+powerstack with ZERO casualties a thing that no other town really capable of!
Pratically it is not actually trading somethings for demons. It is trading low level creatures over demons+Angels-Wyverns-Cyclops+experiences+saving HP.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 19, 2019 09:52 AM |
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Otuken said:
Pratically it is not actually trading somethings for demons. It is trading low level creatures
Way to go Otuken, you contradicted yourself 
There's no way around this. You trade something for something. No amount of dancing around the subject will change the simple fact that you lose stack X to gain stack Y, which is either beneficial (for many tier 1-3 creatures) or not really (others).
Setting it up depends on many things including your finances, the amount of possible joiners, and the circumstances like the amount of neutrals you can visit without wasting too much movement points.
On some maps, it's OK, annoying as it may be. On others, not so much. Some tough "breakthroughs" are possible (you deliberately fight with low tiers to rise them and break through with minimal losses) but it requires a rather hefty amount of Pitlords to pull off properly, or rather unorthodox things like Clone spell, and this obviously means building around pitlord/magog build with fodder, skipping devils which may do the same break with similar potential, depending on the setup.
My point stands: it's an interesting option, but situational.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Otuken
Famous Hero
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posted November 19, 2019 02:55 PM |
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If this feature was useless then it would neither be implemented nor would be used heavily by pro players. There is absolutely no reason to not use this feature and it is the only way to preserve total HP in mid games in creature/resource banks and finally having the demon stack that provides earlier breaking of Dragon Utopias.
Even if it is just trading somethings for just Demans, it is still good feature because one strong demon stack is way more useful than weak stacks of Imps,dogs and demons.
Mathematically it isn't complicated either. My advise is sacificing 70 Imps (mostly free Imps) against important neutral ranged units first (assuming Efreets and Devils are used by other heroes as expeditionary so we have no other options to take on this ranged neutrals without casualties). So we lose no HP and starting to grow our Demon stacks which will play the most important rule in banks.
Then buying 21 or 28 dogs to find something that will soak enemy assaults enough time and provide us almost no HP loss.
If equally skilled Inferno players match against and one of them never use Demon farming then he would absoltely no chance to win any game.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 20, 2019 06:45 AM |
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So currently Inferno and Fortress tie as the worst towns and Conflux is not looking to good either...
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Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 23, 2019 01:15 AM |
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@Otuken
Competitive gaming is very different from single player. No good player will let you build 3 towns and unite all population as demons. You will be rushed and crushed week 3-4 while u are still weak.
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Revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2019 06:29 AM |
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Doomforge said:
Djangoo said:
I'm extremly interested in this, cause huge stats fan.
Would be super nice if someonce could find MP statistics.
here you go:
http://www.heroes-iii.com/
check "statistics".
The site has some goofy load times so let me just post a pic:
Inferno is not only least popular, but has a poor winrate (below 50%). The site introduces a "power index" and inferno is, unsurprisingly, dead last.
(Conflux/Necro are banned so their score doesn't really count)
But hey, stats don't matter. Castle with a 40% damage advantage is totally equal to Inferno bcuz of magical demon farming. Right.
It's just popular because everyone loves playing swordsmen and cavalry in a fantasy setting. Duh.
Well, this is extremely outdated and the meta changed a lot since then. Inferno is by no means a weak town, it is kinda ok I guess, nothing too broken in any way.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 30, 2020 04:05 PM |
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More votes here also.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 30, 2020 04:36 PM |
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I really don't know. Most towns, if played correctly, can easily beat other towns. But the thing is that some are better on rich or larger maps, etc. And since people usually play PvP on short maps, some towns which are better on larger maps are of course gonna have a lower win rate.
But I must say, even though it can be OP and has interesting strategies, Inferno still seems to be the worst, at least on a broader scale. It doesn't excel in small, medium or large maps, many of their important units can get K.O.-ed easily if targeted (the Devils, the Pit lords, even Efreeti), heroes aren't very good (even tho there's one with Inferno as starting spell, but that's almost all), etc. At least you can throw several money into a hole and you get a good offensive level 5 unit.
Edit: What I've noticed at that table is that Wins are usually equal to Loses.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 30, 2020 04:52 PM |
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Yeah Inferno and Fortress at the bottom seems pretty accurate.
Buffing Fire Magic and making DD 1 per day, to remove the neccessity of Air Magic, would help Inferno out though. (I also moved DD to Fire Magic.)
I really don't understand why Inferno has Ammo Cart in their Blacksmith either, they should switch with Dungeon, which can actually use it for their Medusas. (Castle and Necropolis should also switch.)
Fortress should have had Mage Guild 4, Wyvern Monarchs 10 more HP and downgraded Hydras +1 speed.
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luciusfd
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 02, 2020 03:02 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Djangoo said:
I'm extremly interested in this, cause huge stats fan.
Would be super nice if someonce could find MP statistics.
here you go:
http://www.heroes-iii.com/
check "statistics".
The site has some goofy load times so let me just post a pic:
Inferno is not only least popular, but has a poor winrate (below 50%). The site introduces a "power index" and inferno is, unsurprisingly, dead last.
(Conflux/Necro are banned so their score doesn't really count)
But hey, stats don't matter. Castle with a 40% damage advantage is totally equal to Inferno bcuz of magical demon farming. Right.
It's just popular because everyone loves playing swordsmen and cavalry in a fantasy setting. Duh.
It's a bizzare way to look at this table though? Does Inferno not rank last because it's the least played town?
If we look at the win rate in % it's:
Castle 51.6%
Rampart 57.6%
Stronghold 48.9%
Dungeon 46.1%
Fortress 49.6%
Tower 46.8%
Inferno 47.1%
Which means Inferno is nowhere as bad as the total PI would suggest?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 02, 2020 03:14 PM |
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I guess Dungeon and Tower has a low win rate, because of resource cost? (Beholders and Mages can be very hard to build.)
I don't think those tournament stats can be used for much more, than to see that tournament people loves Castle and hates Inferno though.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted April 02, 2020 03:36 PM |
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luciusfd said:
It's a bizzare way to look at this table though? Does Inferno not rank last because it's the least played town?
If we look at the win rate in % it's:
Castle 51.6%
Rampart 57.6%
Stronghold 48.9%
Dungeon 46.1%
Fortress 49.6%
Tower 46.8%
Inferno 47.1%
Which means Inferno is nowhere as bad as the total PI would suggest?
Well, who knows how freaking old this "info" is, so there's not really that much to be learned unfortunately. 
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