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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Time to balance Logistics specialists?
Thread: Time to balance Logistics specialists? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 08, 2019 10:44 PM

Poll Question:
Time to balance Logistics specialists?

I have an idea to balance the 3 Logistics specialists, while still keeping their identity.
Let's have a look at the 3 Logistics specialists:
Ranger - Kyrre: Starts with Logistics and Archery - Archery is not the best skill for Rampart, still with a specialty that great, it does'nt matter much.
Overlord - Gunnar: Starts with Tactics and Logistics - This is really what I consider a superhero, two excellent skills and a very powerful specialty.
Battle Mage - Dessa: Starts with Wisdom and Logistics - Also an extremely good hero, about as good as Gunnar.

Now my idea was to keep their skills (and spell in Dessa's case) but give them a new specialty. So this is my idea for new specialties:
Kyrre: Centaurs (Starting amount could be lowered, if this hero could be considered too powerful a starter.)
Gunnar: Medusas (Alternatively throw Gunnar out and enable Mutare instead, she perhaps fits better with medusas?)
Dessa: Since he is a magic hero and already starts with Stone Skin, he would be perfect for having Stone Skin as a specialty.

So what do you think of the above?

Responses:
Terrible idea, don't change stuff!
Excellent idea, time to balance those heroes!
I really don't care.
Other. (post a comment)
View Results!

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 09, 2019 12:42 AM

I won't respond to your balance inquiries until you release your balance mod for everyone

But seriously... since you rely on our feedback, we deserve to try it
____________
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 03:39 AM
Edited by monere at 03:41, 09 Nov 2019.

I don't like the idea. Not that it affects me in any way since I haven't updated my HoMM games for decades, and don't intend to because I'm OK with the versions I have, but... 2 things:

1) this is not balancing the heroes, it's downright replacing their specialties;

2) replacing their specialties would be good f there was only one logistics specialist (obviously that the player who'd pick him/her would win most of the time), but since there are 3 of them it's perfectly ok to keep them like this. I've had many kyrre vs gunnar games in the 2000s against my high school colleague and as long as we have both mained log specialists it's been fine. The problems have appeared when one of us had randomed one log specialist, while the other hadn't.

Anyway, I have voted for "terrible idea"

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
TPFKADD
posted November 09, 2019 05:09 AM

Sorry but I'm not a fan of this idea. In my opinion it would be better if more towns had a logistics specialist, or at least more heroes starting with the skill.
____________
Horses don't die on a dogs wish.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 07:37 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 07:39, 09 Nov 2019.

Yeah I kinda expected those opinions. Heroes fans are extremely conservative and it's really hard changing peoples minds after 20 years.

@Monere So you admit the Logistics specialty is only fair if all players have it?

@Drakon-Deus and you want more towns to have the Logistics specialty? So every town would always main a Logistics specialist.

It's a little weird cause you sound like you agree that it is indeed OP, still you don't want to change it? It's a little hard to understand.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 09:35 AM

phoenix... changing the bonuses that logistics gives to the specialists is not bad (I actually welcome this idea). But you want to completely replace this specialty with something else, which is undesirable, especially now that - as I understood - there is a bigger size of the maps?

If that's true, logistics specialists are more needed than ever since everyone wants to reduce the time that a PvP game takes, and the simplest way to do that is to play log specialists. In accordance with this idea I think that keeping at least 3 heroes is not only welcome, but actually needed. If you want to add a log specialist for each town is still better than removing logistics as a specialty altogether. But honestly, 10 logistic specialists is too much in my opinion. Three (ok, make it 4, just for the fun of adding one more) log specialists is really the sweet spot for the classic version of HoMM (the one in which there is no Giant map size).

Last but not least, I agree with nimostar that you should make this mod (if it's indeed a mod) available to all of us since you've been working on it for years but no one has seen it yet. If you're making changes to the core game based on our feedback at least give us a piece of the cake

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 09:59 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:00, 09 Nov 2019.

With the proposed changes Kyrre, Gunnar and Dessa would still start with Logistics and be good heroes, but not completely unbalanced like now.

Well I would like to share my mod with you, but honestly I think some people are gonna hate it.
Why?, because it makes the game a lot harder and longer/slower. TP always takes you to nearest town, while AI can go anywhere. DD is only 1 time a day.
Still I personally think this makes the game much more fun, challenging and less random.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 10:20 AM

Mate, people will always hate things, There is no thing like 100% approval rate of anything (not even life gets 100% approval, and you would assume that every living creature wants to live).

This being said, make the mod public and only then will you see how people react to it. If you're afraid of failures, don't! You will fail many times in your life and if this tiny failure stops you from going forward what are you gonna do when bigger failures come your way? You gonna suicide? You're going to start killing people? Learn to deal with failures when they are small, so you can have a reference point when bigger failures come your way (if they ever come, that is).

Personally, I don't like the idea of TP taking you to the nearest town, but you know what! I'd still play it like this because it makes the game more challenging indeed, especially against the AI which every seasoned player knows it's trash.

I do like the idea of casting DD only once a day, though. That's something that devs should have done long ago.

So, there are good ideas and bad ideas in your mod. But that's just my opinion. Other peoples' opinions might be in favor of TP, but not in favor of DD. The point is that you never know how people will react to creations until they've had some time to play with them, and understand them.

I will admit that I will never play your mod, not because it's bad (I wouldn't know until I've tried it), but simply because I am too stubborn (I have only been playing WoG my entire life, even though HotA is the new HoMM craze, I didn't even have the curiosity to try HotA), and also because I don't have the time anymore to play any games. In the near future, however, I will return to H3 (I can guarantee this) and who knows, I might go on a mod testing spree just for the fun of it.

Anyway, the point was to just post the mod for people to try and see if they like it.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 10:31 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:39, 09 Nov 2019.

Well I would'nt consider it a failure if let's say half of people would love it and the other half would hate it. And me and my friend loves it, so I would never consider it a failure, but I do know some people will hate it.
Still I might consider making it public, I guess different versions could even be considered, one with classic TP (for the noobs ) and one for people that likes a challenge, like me.
Honestly the TP change is one of the best things to happen to the game, it makes it more challenging, but also gives you a reason to use more than one hero and guard your towns, it also gives use to skills like Scholar and Intelligence, Mysticism and perhaps even First Aid and Eagle Eye. It makes you actually need to think how you use your mana and it makes Inferno's Castle Gates actually useful!

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 10:48 AM

Still, you need to share it with the rest of us, cause WE are the ones who decide if it's good or bad because it's based on the input that you've got from our feedback. And if no one likes it you can just continue playing it with your friend and that's all that should matter to you anyway since you are both happy with it

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 11:08 AM

Well yeah I'm always interested to hear what people think, I also ask my friend constantly and like me he also wants a better and stronger AI. Still a lot of the ideas in my mod are my own.
The only skill I have failed to make somewhat viable in my mod, is Ballistics and that's because it only works when you are attacking a town and because AI just storms right out the gate like a fool anyway. Pathfinding is not very good either, but that's because of Angel Wings and some stupid boots in HotA that gives Expert Pathfinding. (I have considered banning both.)

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 09, 2019 11:17 AM

How about just giving Logistics specialists a flat bonus? Like 30% or 50% or something.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 11:26 AM

Any bonus to Logistics is OP imo. Being able to move around and clearing the map fast, is the most important aspect of the game imo.
Besides I find static bonuses kinda boring.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 12:40 PM

I find static bonuses boring, too. But, 30% more movement is still better - from a balance pov - than 3% per level.

So, you either go with the boring option, or the imbalanced one. Which one do you think it's better, balancing-wise?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2019 01:11 PM

Yeah perhaps I should just stick with skill specialists being +3% per level, instead of +5%, that at least makes them less OP.
I still consider Gunnar and Dessa  the best heroes in the game though. (Yes Tazar is good too Monere. )

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted November 09, 2019 01:17 PM

Tazar is not just good, he's the best. If he manages to get to level 60+ only diplomacy and CotUK are "better" (read: bigger cheats) than him

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
TPFKADD
posted November 09, 2019 01:37 PM

@phoenix

Yes, I don't want Logistics to be changed. I want more towns to have heroes that benefit from it.
____________
Horses don't die on a dogs wish.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted November 10, 2019 08:26 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 08:27, 10 Nov 2019.

@phoenix Can you please stop opening non-sense threads?
If you want to screw your game that's up to you, continue with your "Gameplay changes to..." whenever you want but this is a Trump's idea.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 10, 2019 10:05 AM

A Trump's idea?, what does that mean?
Here I am trying to be a hero and save the community from that awful thing known as imbalance, but apparently the community does'nt want to be saved.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2019 10:51 AM

Better would be change up Inferno heroes a bit. Pyre could do with Logistics specialty + either Offense or armorer(replacing artillery because you can not buy ballista in inferno blacksmith).

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