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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Modification of Creatures
Thread: Modification of Creatures This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Gravedigger
Gravedigger


Hired Hero
posted February 27, 2020 08:10 PM

Modification of Creatures

Hello everyone i was wondering if there is any easy way to edit creatures in Heroes 3. If there is can you provide me a link?

i was playing Hota trough last few months and Hydra/Behemots breaks are hmm lame ? is just another easy fight. Yes i mean fight with mass slow. Since everyone is so focused on this spell.

I came to idea to buff some of 7 trier units

For example:
Standard Behemot From 160 to 200HP, 18 Def(+1), Ignores 30% def (nerf 10%), AI Value around 3900
Ancient Behemot From 300 to 330 or 350HP, 22 Def(+3), Ignores 60% def (nerf 20%), Speed 8(-1) Ai Value around 7500

Standard Hydra Speed 6(+1), Attack 17(+1), Not sure if want to rise HP, AI Value - no changes
Chaos Hydra Attack 22(+4), from 250 to 280HP, Speed 8(+1) AI Value around 7200

Bone Dragon New Skill Hates Living Creatures 30% more dmg to living creatures, from 150 to 180HP, AI Value around 3800
Ghost Dragon New Skill Hates Living Creatures 30% more dmg to living creatures, from 250 to 285HP, 19 Def(+2), AI Value around 7200 - not sure if i want to remove aeging atack or just nerf it.

Sea Serpant and Haspid - nerf poison from 30% to 20%

This is just theory. It's hard to take everything in evaluation on paper...

I know some of You will say that Ancient Behemots will become most powerful unit in the game, well my idea is to make Behemots as tanks since every single creature from Stronghold is "soft"

Feel free to state Your mind

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bonniee
bonniee

Tavern Dweller
posted September 07, 2020 04:50 AM - penalty applied by Maurice on 09 Sep 2020.
Edited by Maurice at 13:58, 09 Sep 2020.

Spam!

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted September 07, 2020 06:23 AM

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46202

Some of it's doable, some of it isn't.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2020 09:29 AM
Edited by Baronus at 09:32, 07 Sep 2020.

Baronus

Yes citadel nd Stronghold are weak.
Behemot - only animation looks powerfull.
If you compare with archangel and titan
atc 19/24/30
def19/24/30
dmg 40/50/50
Only hp 300/250/300
Its like joke giant ancient behemot is weak. Based behemot is like fire bird. Complety silly.
To repair it you must remember that stronghold is attack oriented city. So
Behemot/AnB
atc 34/38/
def17/19/
dmg 30-50/45-60
hp 240/300
..
Ghost dragon has 200 hp - you must remember that Necro is very strong. Has necromancy vampyres black riders! If you boost dragons it will be more overpowered. All other cities you sholud boost too.
AI values should be ballanced because I see a lot of mistakes.
Hydra attacks around and has no counterattack so cant be compared only using statistics. Rather wyvern must be boosted. I suggest +6 growth.
We have more mistakes. Giant eg. is not giant but like one naga... Imps growth is very small etc.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 07, 2020 10:26 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 10:27, 07 Sep 2020.

Behemoths ignore part of defense so duh, they're already pretty OP and can beat any level 7 creature in 1v1. The 19 Attack is to not have them deal waaaaay too much damage and the 19 defense goes to make them more balanced, especially since they deal so high damage and have 300 hp as well.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 07, 2020 10:57 AM

Yeah Ancient Behemoths are already really strong, downgraded Behemoths are not that great, but I guess that's fair considering how early you can build them.
Hydras are slow, but can be powerful with Haste/Teleport/Prayer. They need to hit as many stacks as possible.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2020 11:16 AM

Reduce defense is Behemot only skill it doesnt mean is strong. If unit has 10 pt def it reduce 8. It gives behemot 19+8 =27 to attack. Still lover than angel Unit must have 15 def to reduce 12 it gives behemot 31 only one more than angel.
If you compare with angel Beh has 38 att def after reducing angel has 36 titan 29. Behemot has 40 damg ang,tit 50. But titans shooting angels gives morale, flying, ressurection! Anc behemot is not a very strong unit! Its only strong animation.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 07, 2020 11:19 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 11:20, 07 Sep 2020.

Ancient Behemoth is a very strong unit. They hit like a dang truck when they attack, dealing even ~double damage because of their ability. I mean, they can annihilate any creature stack if numbers aren't too high (eg. farmed skeletons). Isn't this kinda enough? You just need to get them to reach the target creature, then it's all GG for it, the Ancient Behemoths have done their job of destroying another creature stack.

Also, uh what did you mean exactly with the last line? I can barely get a hang of what you wanted to say there.

Also, Ancient Behemoths, with no attack-defense from hero, deal 50-85 damage against Archangels, lol.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2020 01:39 PM

Archangel gives 77.5 dmg vs Anc behemoth, can fly is fast resurrect add morale + 4.1% chance for second attack seven units = 28.7% chance for single unit.
Archangel ressurect 100 hp.
Behemot gives 66 dmg versus Archangel cant fly ressurect nothing more.
30- 80% = 6 vs att 19 = 13 x 5 = 65% of average 40 = 66
19 vs 30 = 11 x 5% = 55% of 50 = 77.5
Its simply math. Behemoth is maximum 70-75% strong as archangel. Its only strong animation.
Not only stats are important. Archangel is full of abilities Anc behemoth in fact has no abilities.
Bosting 19 attack and 12.5 dmg is maybe to much because will be strongest unit 15 to attack is enough. Will be strong as aangel.

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Mortarial
Mortarial

Tavern Dweller
posted September 07, 2020 04:34 PM

@Baronus

You underestimate Ancient Behemoths' Defense reduction. Even if they are weaker statistically, they are the only creatures that still can beat Archangels in a fair fight. Their base stats are wors, but they scale much better than Archangels, in therms ofr damage. With each additional point of Attack and Defense skill their chance to overcome Archangels is higher. For example, with bonus 10/10 stats from hero their damage is 84 against 77 Archangels' damage. With 20/20 AB deal 100 damage to AA against their 77. So in late game there is no stronger lvl7 creature than Ancient Behemoth, in therms of damage.

You don't need to boost weaker lvl7 creatures to be as strong as Archangels, because "they feel to weak compared to Archangels". But did you notice the difference in cost of Archangels and other lvl7 creatures? Archangels' strong stats and ablities match their high cost, while other creatures are good for their costs.

Ancient Behemoth costs as much as unupgraded Angel, yet AB is much stronger and pretty equal to Archangels. And don't forget how easily and fast you can access Behemoths. Buffing them is ridiculous.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2020 05:26 PM

If hero has 10 it means of that Anc behemoth can give more dmg ofcourse. Its still to small. To be as Aang heroes sholud have 20 poitns of att/def it gives 16 bonus. Its very rare and at the end of game. Behemoth is strongest if heroes have 30-40.
You have right. I know that cost is for regulation strenght. I only think that behemoth sholud be really strong as in animation.
Generaly I agree. In late game abeh can be strongest but major gameplay time is weak. Keep in mind that cant fly and shoot. So stronghold has big casualties behind walls.
So good be to reduce bonus to 20 and 40% but boost stats to not have to much ,groving unit' .

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 09, 2020 11:58 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 23:59, 09 Sep 2020.

This list literally says it all, it's as if the Ancient Behemoth would have ~50-80 as starting damage in many cases. Also, keep in mind that Barbarians start with 4 Attack, and the Ancient Behemoth is gonna be pretty OP against neutral stacks regarding damage values.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 10, 2020 11:02 AM

Yes at the end of game when you conquer 80% map. First 50% of game its weak unit. Should be balanced. Maybe 25% and 50% reduction and higher start stats.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 10, 2020 12:13 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:14, 10 Sep 2020.

I was saying you don't even need the huge stats to have them OP. And dang, just in the first days your hero is gonna have at least 6 Attack, so imagine that by the time he has Ancient Behemoths he's gonna have like 10 Attack. Also, take into consideration that neutral stacks don't have stat bonuses, so the Ancient Behemoths would deal huge damage against them. And they're also a key unit since they are the only ones who can breach the creatures' defense, so even few of them are impressive against high-level creature stacks commanded by a hero, speaking from experience.

All of this in mid-game at most, since you don't really get Ancient Behemoths early game.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 10, 2020 12:58 PM

No. Ive calculated it. Again?
10 points reduction is 8 if unit has 10 it gves 16
Ancient Beh has now 35 att 19 def = 54 Angel has 60 Anc Beh 40 dmg Angel 50 still weak. Angel can fly ressurect and gives morale.
To have benefits you must have 20+ stats best have 30-40. Its fiction. 20 att def I have 1 for 30 games.
For units with 7-15 def this benefit is more smallest.
Modding Behemots is needed. Must be boosted in early game. Best way give 50% skill and higher stats.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 10, 2020 01:29 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:34, 10 Sep 2020.

Take into account unit price as well. Ancient Behemoths aren't supposed to be that efficient as the double-priced Archangel, but they can still beat one 1v1 with relative ease, as they can with any unit (except neutral dragons).

And higher stats would imbalance the Stronghold. There is a thin line for a balanced or not faction. The Behemoths would become some of the most annoying units in the game if the stats would be boosted with even just +4.

Stronghold's play-style is also first-strike: strike the enemy ASAP with all your might, using Tactics and spells such as Mass Haste. A hit from an unharmed Ancient Behemoth stack in a PvP battle would render the target almost unusable in many cases.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 10, 2020 03:55 PM

Maybe longer.
enemy
Hero 10 points reduction is 8
unit 10 points reduction is 8
...
it gves 16 reduction
Ancient Beh has now 35 att 19 def = 54
::::::
enemy
Hero 10 points reduction is 0
unit 10 points reduction is 0
Angel has 30 att 30 def = 60

Anc Beh 40 dmg + (25*5) = 125% = 100 dmg
Angel 50 dmg + (20*5%) = 100% = 100 dmg

BUT DEFENCE IS 19 TO 30! So if enemy has 10 attack gives for behemoth 9*2.5 = 22.5% reduction.
Angel 20* 2.5 = 50% reduction!

If enemy gives 160 dmg
77.5 % aggainist behemoth 132 dmg
and 50% aggainist angel 80 dmg
still weak.
Angel can fly ressurect and gives morale.
To have benefits you must have 20+ stats best have 30-40. Its fiction. 20 att def I have 1 for 30 games.
For units with 7-15 def this benefit is more smallest.

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Mortarial
Mortarial

Tavern Dweller
posted September 10, 2020 04:07 PM

Baronus said:

Modding Behemots is needed. Must be boosted in early game. Best way give 50% skill and higher stats.

Baronus said:

Bosting 19 attack and 12.5 dmg is maybe to much because will be strongest unit 15 to attack is enough. Will be strong as aangel.

Baronus said:

To repair it you must remember that stronghold is attack oriented city. So
Behemot/AnB
atc 34/38/
def17/19/
dmg 30-50/45-60
hp 240/300



Without any buff Behemoths deal 52 average damage to Angels, and it is very good number.

Okay, let's buff Behemoth and compare him to Angel. Let's assume, that Behemoth base Attack now =30 (buff +13 Attack), but the ablility now reduce only 20% of enemy Defense. Thus, Behemoth will reduce Angel's Defense by 5 points. Behemoth attack Angel and deal ((30 - 15)*0,05 + 1) * 40 = 70. Angel respond with ((20 - 17)*0,05 + 1) * 50 = 57 damage. You can see, that Angel's damage is only 81% of Behemoth's. Meanwhile Giant will damage Angel for 48 damage, Red Dragon for 43...

Considering, that even 2 Behemoths are cheaper than 1 Angel, we have imba creature. And don't forget how quickly you can access them.


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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 10, 2020 04:46 PM

You should remember higher attack than defense, it does maximum 400% damage. If defense is higher than attack, it does minimum -30% damage. Example of 1 Titan vs abandoned mine. Titan doesn't 40-60 damage against Troglodytes. Titan does over 120 damage, so +100% damage with 1lvl hero. You can test it. And original Heroes 3 Manual, if I remember, it said 400% and -30% damage. So don't nerf Behemoths. Barbarian, Offense skill and Ingores 80% are good or excellent.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 10, 2020 06:28 PM

I didnt write about fight berhemoth versrus archangel because its nonsence only one unit comparition but about fight with random unit. Behemot must fight with all units. With Aangel its one for about 80 times. Its only 14 units of 7lvl and some neutral. Rest 120 units have lower stats and Anc behemoth ability works weak. If unit has 10 pt and hero 10 pt reduction is only 16 pt. Behemkt has low 19 attack. And its not big bonus.

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