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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How would you have designed the Heroes 3 Gold Dragon?
Thread: How would you have designed the Heroes 3 Gold Dragon? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 02, 2020 04:40 PM

Poll Question:
How would you have designed the Heroes 3 Gold Dragon?

I was personally never a fan of the Gold Dragons level 1-4 immunity. They can be blasted by Implosion, but not resurrected or resurrected through Sacrifice, it seems completely unfair to me. They are also vulnerable to Ghost Dragons aging and take full damage from Magic Elementals, unlike Black Dragons.
If the enemy uses Orb of Vulnerability, they can hit you with everything, but you still cannot buff, cure or resurrect the poor dragons. (So I don't really like Orb of Vulnerability either.)
So how would you have designed the Gold Dragons?
If you would have done anything different to the Black Dragons, you can post it here as well.

Responses:
Immune to level 1-3 spells.
Immune to level 1-3 + mind spells.
Immune to level 1-3 + fire spells.
Immune to level 1-3 + mind and fire spells.
Immune to level 1-4 spells.
Immune to level 1-4 spells, but with natural Magic Mirror, like Faerie Dragons.
Immune to level 1-5 spells, like Black Dragons.
Other (Write a comment)
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 02, 2020 08:29 PM

No one has voted. I have already voted. I support the phoenix thread. I think the thread becomes good discussion.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2020 08:37 PM

Well, I think it's pretty easy to say at this point - over 20 years after the game's release - that Gold Dragon 1-4 lvl immunity wasn't exactly the most fitting design decision. IMO the two dragons should have been either equal in the terms of their resistances, or should have been somehow different in two areas, like one being resistant to fire and other to earth, for example. One simply coming on top like that is just... strange. Perhaps the other dragon should have simply been superior with stats, and the other would a bit weaker, but would be immune to magic.

By stating so, I would still like to add that imo any kind of changes to them would be unfitting at this point of the game's timeline. They are still one the mightiest unit in the game, and are extremely irritating to deal with. Yes, they can be targeted with Implosion, but so can be everything else.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 02, 2020 08:55 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 21:01, 02 Jul 2020.

@Hourglass Yeah changing stuff like this now would be very controversial, but I just think Gold Dragons were originally very poorly designed.
Yes everything except Black Dragons and Magic Elementals can be hit by Implosion, but most of them can also at least be resurrected then or are not as important as an upgraded level 7 unit.
And Orb of Vulnerability just ruins both Gold and Black Dragons. If at least it worked the same for both players, but nooo you still can't cast anything or your dragons, while the enemy is having fun with Blind, Berserk, Implosion etc.
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed by both dragons, but that's just my opinion.

And everyone it would be nice with some votes please.

Oh and Ghost, I actually understood that post, good job.

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted July 02, 2020 09:54 PM

Natural magic mirror sounds cool to me.
____________
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44815
^ My novelization

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 03, 2020 01:31 AM
Edited by Zaio-Baio at 01:44, 03 Jul 2020.

I think that 3do first made the Black dragons and then the Gold ones. Gold dragon feels like a rushed copy of the Black dragon. It seems that they were in a hurry and made a generic dragon that doesnt fit at all in Rampart town.

Gold dragons are good for Armageddon tactics, yet rangers cant get offered fire magic at lvl up, also armageddon spell will not show up in rampart mage guild. At the same time, dungeon town has highest possible chance to offer armageddon at lvl 4 mage guild and also both dungeon hero classes can learn fire magic at lvl up. Mana vortex and artifact merchant also help towards building a strong spell caster hero. So Black dragon's magic immunity is backed up nicely by the dungeon town.

Rampart heroes focus on earth and water magic, yet gold dragons are immune to all beneficial earth and water magic spells They are immune to both protection from earth and resurrection, which means they are extra weak vs implosion, which happens to be the most common final fight spell on rich maps. And if you dont play rich maps you wont be able to get gold dragons before final fight, because their dwelling has a lot of requirements.  

I think it would have been better if green and gold dragons were designed in a way that has more synergy with rampart town and heroes.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 03:00 AM

Wow, I think my absence and my polls have gotten other people to do polls as well.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 03, 2020 08:01 AM

@Zaio-Baio Good post and I agree.

@FirePaladin I've done tons of polls before you even became a member of HC.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 03, 2020 12:26 PM
Edited by phe at 18:14, 04 Jul 2020.

If Mass Prayer is 5th level spell it would be enough or they should be Prayer-receptive...

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 12:42 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:42, 03 Jul 2020.

Phoenix4ever said:
@Zaio-Baio Good post and I agree.

@FirePaladin I've done tons of polls before you even became a member of HC.


I know, but you've restarted them only now. After all, you already told me that.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 03, 2020 12:57 PM

Yeah it's not like I have planned making a new poll every week, I think people would grow really tired of that, if they not are already.
But this thing about Black and especially Gold Dragons has been bothering me for a while, so I wanted to hear what people thought about it.
The Orb of Vulnerability would also be more fair and easier to understand, if it worked the same for both players.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 01:42 PM

I voted 1-3 with mind and fire immunity (even though I don't remember there being a mind spell other than forgetfulness that isn't fire), but I think I should have voted the Magic Mirror and 1-4 immunity.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 03, 2020 02:29 PM

Mirth, Sorrow and Hypnotize are also mind spells.
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Mind_spell

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 02:30 PM

Ah, I see. Still pretty minor spells, in most cases.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 03, 2020 02:32 PM

Yeah they are not Slow/Haste/Blind caliber, that's for sure.

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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted July 03, 2020 07:32 PM
Edited by heymlich at 21:46, 03 Jul 2020.

I think the best solution would be to make Sacrifice a true lvl 5 spell. If Gold Dragons could be resurrected with Sacrifice they would be fine as they are.

Of course that will require you to somehow get the Sacrifice spell, but the same goes for Implosion.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 05, 2020 12:05 AM

Very weird.
I think all dragons should be 100% immunited. They do it to have difference between black and gold. But they sholud have another interesting difference.

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Jagulars
Jagulars

Tavern Dweller
posted July 05, 2020 07:49 AM

I think most interesting would be immunity to level 1-3 spells like green dragons but also % of damage reduction from spells like gold golems.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 05, 2020 07:58 AM

^^ I'm going to check out if this is possible, it is not a bad idea.
I want to do something about Fire Immune creatures as well, it's really annoying you can't cast positive fire spells on them.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 05, 2020 08:48 AM


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