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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: The ideal HoMM: Computer graphics
Thread: The ideal HoMM: Computer graphics
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 01:47 PM

Poll Question:
The ideal HoMM: Computer graphics

I doubt there's too much to explain here. All HoMM games before H4 were 2D, H4 was 2.5D, H5 by NWC was planned to be 2.5D as well, but after Ubi bought the series, all next games were 3D.

Personally, I think that HoMM could be awesome in 3D as well.

Responses:
2D
3D
2.5D
As long as it does fit in the style of the game, I'm ok
As long as it looks good, I'm ok
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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 03, 2020 02:02 PM

I would have been for 'As long as it does fit in the style of the game, I'm ok'


But...

HoMM 3 might have been 2D, but in order to look good, everything had to be made 3D and then converted into 2D which I think it takes a lot of time and 3D gives you many opportunities for skins, armor additions etc which can be very easily implemented as opposed to 2D -> 3D, which i think it's counter productive. Modds know what im talking about.

We live in 2020, 3D really does make our lives easier.

And i dont want to sound like a burglar, but we can always get free 3D models from specialized websites. Like tigers, lions, dragons, dwarves etc and modify them accordingly.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
O(+>
posted July 03, 2020 02:02 PM

Voted for 2.5D, and I wish NWC had made H5. We'll never know now...
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 03, 2020 02:04 PM

don't know what 2.5D is, but I voted "as long as it looks good I'm ok"
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 03, 2020 02:08 PM

Voted 2.5D but I think the poll should have been only two options 2D vs 3D. Many people don't know what 2.5D is and if you show them such game they will associate it to 2D.

@Dj: In 2020 we still have gorgeous 2D games that are being released and they are very successful. Just in terms of gameplay 2D is more fitting to this series. Also in terms of art it allows for more and is actually cheaper to produce. Doesn't mean we don't use 3D (H3 has 3D modelling) but the overall game is 2D.
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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 03, 2020 02:16 PM
Edited by Dj at 14:21, 03 Jul 2020.

Galaad said:


@Dj: In 2020 we still have gorgeous 2D games that are being released and they are very successful. Just in terms of gameplay 2D is more fitting to this series. Also in terms of art it allows for more and is actually cheaper to produce. Doesn't mean we don't use 3D (H3 has 3D modelling) but the overall game is 2D.


I didnt say that games in 2d are not gorgeous, but modern game mechanics are not compatbile with 2D.

It is already hard to make creature animations for our simple Heroes 3.

You have the 3D model pikeman which has to be converted to 2D. You must find the right angle, make the .def file.

And then you have to upgrade the pikeman to halberdier. In 3D you only change the armor, but in order to make it 2D, you have to make another .def file, which includes all types of animation: death, attack fw, up, down, walk etc. Do that for all factions (more than 10 if we strive for that) which have alternative creatures, we probably want 3rd upgrade + neutrals and heroes on the battlefield.


Whereas with the 3D model, you only change/add/modify armor and some plygons, some particles and that's it. You already have the model and the animations as  well


EDIT: imagine that you want permanent (on the battlefield) BUFFs for creatures. Like Light Wings on swordsmen or shields or different types of weapons...add them in 2D, if you want. In 3d you can easily replace them

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 02:21 PM

Fair enough. That's what I love about 3D moddeling.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 03, 2020 02:26 PM

Dj, I modded h3 and I know how it works. I also think that if mere fans are able to do it it can't be a problem for actual professionals...
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 02:32 PM

I think H6 actually looked ok, tbh. But it has flaws outside the visuals, and those pretty much make the game not that good.
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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 03, 2020 02:35 PM
Edited by Dj at 14:36, 03 Jul 2020.

Galaad said:
Dj, I modded h3 and I know how it works. I also think that if mere fans are able to do it it can't be a problem for actual professionals...


I believe you, but mere fans didnt really make such a big deal. Only Hota managed to make something as close as original and they work on the second faction in, what?, +5 years?


What else did the mere fans do? Bastion? which was never finisheD? Grove? which failed even with imported graphics from Warcraft?

Frankensteined and recolored units in WoG? Stolen graphics?

Abyss which has units in a very bad angle and animation style?

Maybe there's VCMI Forge which looks great.

So we have, 2-3 towns that completely look like original in +15 years?
And maybe a bunch of isolated good looking units and map objects.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 02:39 PM

There are some more towns that look like the original, or pretty close to it, but I can't really name all of them.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 03, 2020 02:41 PM

Well, it obviously won't take 15 years if it's an actual professional development studio doing it instead of a few lads in their room doing it on their free time.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 03, 2020 04:35 PM

I'd really like it if it primarily fit the game and delivered a veritable Heroes atmosphere, if it was presenting good visuals cohesive with the theme of the game. I think both 2D and 3D can work, but I'd like 3D more.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 05:17 PM

I have the same opinion, Stevie
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 03, 2020 06:39 PM

I like WoG, because you can walk shurb over like grass. H3 is also good! But I voted 2.5D, when I play also H4. I don't like H5 and 3D.
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 03, 2020 10:43 PM

Definitiely 2.5D. 3D is for nothing. Often looks ugly if moddeling is not perfectly. Costs are high and small number of units can be done. For isometric strategy game best is 2.5D and batllefield as in H1-3. Nothing better I didnt saw.
Hard find something better. But will be good to have more pictures on the map. If I wisit objects its texttable only. Will be good to have picture if its eg. market. Or in campaign some pictures when we have time event wolud be good not only txt.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted July 03, 2020 11:32 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 23:36, 03 Jul 2020.

2.5D is relatively harder to make than 3D. It's actually the same thing, only that it uses pre-rendered models instead of real-time rendering, sooooo.... you contradicted yourself with "hard to make 3D models, etc.".

And, the classic example, King's Bounty had the same kind of battles as H3 and managed to make good-looking 3D models, as well as real-time rendering of the assets, unlike a -cough- recent game that is 7th in a series I know.
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