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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Grail structures rebalance
Thread: Grail structures rebalance
pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted September 21, 2020 07:46 AM
Edited by pizdabol at 07:50, 21 Sep 2020.

Grail structures rebalance

Are people generally happy with all grail structurese as they are right now? I've always had a bit of a problem with a few of them, separated between two categories - one is Castle and Rampart, the other is Stronghold, Fortress and Dungeon.

For Castle and Ramp the problem is I find them mostly redundant, especially Castle with most knights starting with Leadership. This was somewhat adressed by introducing the negative Luck/Morale artifacts, but between skills, spells, map objects, etc. I still think it needs a bit more tweaking to make that plus two noticible. I mean it is the friggin Grail, it should be somewhat "grandoise". Though if most people are happy with the current Luck/Morale system I could live with that.

More pressing to me are the other three. Dungeon aside as it is a complete joke, their bonuses are pretty huge but very limited in their actual usefulness wheras all other grails provide a variably hefty global bonus. Besides more often than not if your castle is being besieged it's gonna be with a vastly superior force, rendering those 20 points somewhat wasted.

And some simple and probably mostly balanced ways I'd adress those issues would be:

Raise the Luck/Morale from 3 max/min to 5.

Fortress - drop the 10/10 and make the plant cast expert Stone Skin on you first battle each day.

Strong - drop the 20 attack and either cast expert Bloodlust on the first battle each day or provide a global 5 - 10 percent magic ressistance (I think 5 would be fine)

Dungeon - drop the 15 spellpower and give a global 10-20 percent spell damage.

And drop the plus 10 knowledge form Tower, for consistency, skyship is good enough without it.

PS. By the way I'm super hyped to see what they're gonna come up with for Factory, the lodestar was pretty sweet.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 21, 2020 08:55 AM

The morale and luck caps have to be raised to at least +6, to make any sense, take a look at poor Melodia for example.
Tower's Skyship is very weird in that it reveals terrain in both surface and underground. It should only reveal terrain at the level it's located. (Not even sure how it makes sense to have a Skyship in the underground, so perhaps it should not even be possible to build Tower's grail here?)
I guess I'm fine with the other grails, though some of them are a bit boring. (Inferno and Necropolis.)

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Baronus
Baronus


Legendary Hero
posted September 21, 2020 11:32 AM

All this construct should be rebuild. Grail in fact is useless. Only if its target of scenario to build. Always you faster elimanate all oponents than you find all obelisks often in far of cities places when you not go to not lost time. So must be another way.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted September 21, 2020 11:39 AM

That's the thing, you never find all obelisks so you guess its location (which does work).
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The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted September 21, 2020 02:23 PM

pizdabol said:

Fortress - drop the 10/10 and make the plant cast expert Stone Skin on you first battle each day.

Strong - drop the 20 attack and either cast expert Bloodlust on the first battle each day or provide a global 5 - 10 percent magic ressistance (I think 5 would be fine)

Dungeon - drop the 15 spellpower and give a global 10-20 percent spell damage.

And drop the plus 10 knowledge form Tower, for consistency, skyship is good enough without it.


1. Just for the first battle? Then, say, you attack a defending neutral army protecting something. And that's it.

2. Same for this first suggestion. Second seems fine, though.

3. This one seems fine.

4. A unique use. Once the map is revealed, there is nothing else. If you have most of the map revealed, which shall be the case, if you need at least a couple of Obelisks, it has not much of a use either.
____________
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pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted September 21, 2020 03:14 PM
Edited by pizdabol at 15:19, 21 Sep 2020.

PandaTar said:
1. Just for the first battle? Then, say, you attack a defending neutral army protecting something. And that's it.

2. Same for this first suggestion. Second seems fine, though.

3. This one seems fine.

4. A unique use. Once the map is revealed, there is nothing else. If you have most of the map revealed, which shall be the case, if you need at least a couple of Obelisks, it has not much of a use either.


I myself am perfectly happy with cast on every single battle, though I fear some people might find it too much compared to other structures. Besides I don't think it would be that hard to prioritize and save it for an important battle as opposed to wasting it on some fodder. Or you might have a pop up window asking if you wish to use the ability, though that might be a bit of an annoyance and is not really characteristic of the game (I mean you didn't even got asked if you wanted to learn some garbage skill from huts/scholars )

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 21, 2020 03:48 PM

I think the problem is mostly on Stronghold, Fortress and Dungeon. Easily this could be solved by simply turning the big town defence bonus to much smaller, global bonus - all your heroes would get a global (floating) increase the their defence stat, if the grail would build into Fortress town, for example. This bonus would go away, if the town would be conquered by another player. Of course, this could be seen as a somewhat boring solution, but it would still very close to the original design, it would be very characteric for the named towns and the bonuses would be more in line with Castle, Rampart and even Necro.

Btw, I would probably rate Castle's bonus the third best ability. Knights are not a desirable choice to be used as mains, and overall the ability further allows player to mix more troops from other towns, while still having a positive morale.

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BTB
BTB


Famous Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted September 21, 2020 09:58 PM

Castle and Rampart get a lot more effective if you just raise maximum Luck/Morale to something like 6 or 8.

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