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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: The fastest army.
Thread: The fastest army.
HALT
HALT


Known Hero
Knight of Justice
posted May 04, 2002 09:01 PM
Edited By: HALT on 4 May 2002

The fastest army.

Every creature in the game has its own speed. Their speeds also have influence on all-army movement per day. I went to celestial haven website to check the statistic analysis and came up with some conclusions and questions.

The first question I asked myself is: would be morale affecting army movements? Say if I have Academy as a starting town and I got Golem Dragons (speed 27 (by celestial havens)) and after that I got say black dragons (speed 30). Morale will definitely go down in the combat, but wold this reduce my overall army speed?

The second question would be: if I got flying units in my army  (angels) actually let’s say this is the only unit that I have in my army. Will it mean that my hero will not have movement penalties?

(ALL STATISTICAL INFO WAS TAKEN FROM CELECTIAL HAVENS)

And now lets what army will be fastest:  <Academy:
Dwarfs (18), Gold Golem (19), Genie (25), Golem Dragon (27) - average speed - 22.25
Dwarfs (18), Gold Golem (19), Genie (25), Titans (19) - average speed - 20.25
Dwarfs (18), Gold Golem (19), Naga (19), Golem Dragon (27) - average speed - 20.75
Dwarfs (18), Gold Golem (19), Naga (19), Titans ( 19) - average speed - 18.75

So now player has to choose : sacrifice Nagas strength for overall army speed or Pick Genies and make army weaker?

Asylum:
Bandit (21), Medusa (19),  Efreet (29), Black Dragon (30) – average speed  - 24.75
Bandit (21), Medusa (19),  Nightmare (23), Black Dragon (30) – average speed  - 23.25
Bandit (21), Medusa (19),  Efreet (29), Hydra (21) – average speed  - 22.5
Bandit (21), Medusa (19),  Nightmare (23), Hydra (21) – average speed  - 21
orc (19), Medusa (19),  Efreet (29), Black Dragon (30) – average speed  - 24.25
orc (19), Medusa (19),  Nightmare (23), Black Dragon (30) – average speed  - 22.75
orc (19), Medusa (19),  Efreet (29), Hydra (21) – average speed  - 22
orc (19), Medusa (19),  Nightmare (23), Hydra (21) – average speed  - 20.5

Haven:
Squire (19), Pickeman (19), Crusader (19), Angel (30) – average speed –  21.75
Squire (19), Ballista (13), Crusader (19), Angel (30) – average speed –  20.25
Squire (19), Pickeman (19), Crusader (19), Champion (25) – average speed –  20.5
Squire (19), Ballista (13), Crusader (19), Champion (25) – average speed – 19

Necropolis:
Imp (28), Ghost (28), Vampire (28), Devil (30) – average speed -  28.5
Imp (28), Ghost (28), Vampire (28), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 28
Imp (28), Ghost (28), Spawn (19), Devil (30) – average speed –  26.25
Imp (28), Ghost (28), Spawn (19), Bone dragon (28) – average speed – 25.75
Imp (28), Cerberus (21), Vampire (28), Devil (30) – average speed – 26.75
Imp (28), Cerberus (21), Spawn (19), Devil (30) – average speed –  24.5
Imp (28), Cerberus (21), Spawn (19), Bone dragon (28) – average speed –  24.5
Imp (28), Cerberus (21), Vampire (28), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 26.25
Skeleton (19), Ghost (28), Vampire (28), Devil (30) – average speed – 26.25
Skeleton (19), Ghost (28), Vampire (28), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 25.75
Skeleton (19), Ghost (28), Spawn (19), Devil (30) – average speed – 24
Skeleton (19), Ghost (28), Spawn (19), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 23.5
Skeleton (19), Cerberus (21), Vampire (28), Devil (30) – average speed – 24.5
Skeleton (19), Cerberus (21), Spawn (19), Devil (30) – average speed – 22.25
Skeleton (19), Cerberus (21), Vampire (28), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 24
Skeleton (19), Cerberus (21), Spawn  (19), Bone Dragon (28) – average speed – 21.75

Preserve:
Sprite (29), White tiger (24), Griffon (29), Phoenix (30)  - average speed – 28
Sprite (29), White tiger (24), Griffon (29), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 27.75
Sprite (29), White tiger (24), Unicorn (25), Phoenix (30)  - average speed – 27
Sprite (29), White tiger (24), Unicorn (25), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 26.75
Sprite (29), Elf (19), Unicorn (25), Phoenix (30)  - average speed –  25.75
Sprite (29), Elf (19), Unicorn (25), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 25.5
Sprite (29), Elf (19), Griffon (29), Phoenix (30)  - average speed –  26.75
Sprite (29), Elf (19), Griffon (29), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 26.5
Wolf (21), White tiger (24), Griffon (29), Phoenix (30)  - average speed –  26
Wolf (21), White tiger (24), Griffon (29), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 25.75
Wolf (21), White tiger (24), Unicorn (25), Phoenix (30)  - average speed – 25
Wolf (21), White tiger (24), Unicorn (25), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 24.75
Wolf (21), Elf (19), Unicorn (25), Phoenix (30)  - average speed –  23.75
Wolf (21), Elf (19), Unicorn (25), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 23.5
Wolf (21), Elf (19), Griffon (29), Phoenix (30)  - average speed –  24.75
Wolf (21), Elf (19), Griffon (29), Faerie Dragon (29)  - average speed – 24.5


Stronghold:
Centaur (25), Harpy (28), Ogre Mage (21), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 25.75
Centaur (25), Harpy (28), Ogre Mage (21), Behemoth (21) – average speed – 23.75
Centaur (25), Harpy (28), Cyclops (19), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 25.25
Centaur (25), Harpy (28), Cyclops (19), Behemoth (21) – average speed – 23.25
Centaur (25), Nomad (27), Ogre Mage (21), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 25.5
Centaur (25), Nomad (27), Ogre Mage (21), Behemoth (21) – average speed – 23.5
Centaur (25), Nomad (27), Cyclops (19), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 25
Centaur (25), Nomad (27), Cyclops (19), Behemoth (21) – average speed –  23
Berserker (20), Harpy (28), Ogre Mage (21), Thunderbird (29) – average speed -  24.5
Berserker (20), Harpy (28), Ogre Mage (21), Behemoth (21) – average speed –  22.5
Berserker (20), Harpy (28), Cyclops (19), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 24
Berserker (20), Harpy (28), Cyclops (19), Behemoth (21) – average speed – 22
Berserker (20), Nomad (27), Ogre Mage (21), Thunderbird (29) – average speed -  24.25
Berserker (20), Nomad (27), Ogre Mage (21), Behemoth (21) – average speed –  22.25
Berserker (20), Nomad (27), Cyclops (19), Thunderbird (29) – average speed –  23.75
Berserker (20), Nomad (27), Cyclops (19), Behemoth (21) – average speed – 21.75


The fastest army from each town:

Dwarfs (18), Gold Golem (19), Genie (25), Golem Dragon (27) - average speed - 22.25
Bandit (21), Medusa (19),  Efreet (29), Black Dragon (30) – average speed  - 24.75
Squire (19), Pickeman (19), Crusader (19), Angel (30) – average speed –  21.75
Imp (28), Ghost (28), Vampire (28), Devil (30) – average speed -  28.5
Sprite (29), White tiger (24), Griffon (29), Phoenix (30)  - average speed – 28
Centaur (25), Harpy (28), Ogre Mage (21), Thunderbird (29) – average speed – 25.75


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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted May 04, 2002 09:59 PM

Doesn't the slowest creature in each army determine the overall speed of the army? If you want a fast army, why not just leave those really slow units such as dwarves behind?
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Henl86
Henl86


Known Hero
oLd SkOoL RA2 OwNaH
posted May 04, 2002 10:13 PM

Yep, it's NOT an average, it's the slowest creature that determines the length of which the army canmove. It wouldn't make sence if the dwarf could move 10 miles per day, but because he's in an army of genies, he can suddenly move 15...
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HALT
HALT


Known Hero
Knight of Justice
posted May 04, 2002 10:26 PM

will you live slow units like naga or crusider?
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 05, 2002 11:19 AM

Quote:


So now player has to choose : sacrifice Nagas strength for overall army speed or Pick Genies and make army weaker?




Uhh... Have you played Heroes4? "pick genies and make army weaker?" Yeah, right!
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Henl86
Henl86


Known Hero
oLd SkOoL RA2 OwNaH
posted May 05, 2002 03:06 PM

This system makes ballistas crap. Firstly, pikemen aren't that much worse, secondly, they have a movement of 13.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted May 05, 2002 03:11 PM

"The first question I asked myself is: would be morale affecting army movements?"

On the adventure map no. The army moves as far as the slowest unit. When the slowest army has used their movement you can split away the rest, it can be useful in many cases. (Like when you have a hero with Pathfinding, and bonus artifacts. You then let the hero and fast creature take a detour and join up with the creatures when all their movement is used or possibly in the beginning of next turn.)

Morale doesn't affect speed in combat either, however, if you get "Good Morale" at th start of the round then you'll move first (and do more damage), and if you get "Bad Morale" you will move last and receive a penalty to damage. If you don't get either you'll move in normal order.

So:
Good Morale in speed order
Neutral Morale in speed order
Bad morale in speed order.

And if a units waits you resolve things in the reversed order, taking into account both morale and speed.

When mixing creatures with Heroes, if the fastest creature is faster than the hero then hero receives the movement of the fastest creature.

In many cases you would consider leaving some creatures behind to speed up your movement.

Preserve is very fast with Sprites, Griffins, and Phoenixe/Faeries. (And Air elementals/Mantis from the portal will also have good speed.) Asylum is also very fast with Efreet and Blackies, and Necropols is fast with Vampires, Bone Dragons/Devils (and Imps/Ghosts also have good speed).

The other three castles suffers. In Haven only the L4 have good speed and Ballista are agonizingly slow. In Academy Dragon Golems are very good, but the rest on the slow side. In Academy you would certainly consider taking only the Genies as your troops. Stronghold have Thunderbirds and their two level 2s as fast, the rest being slow.

So if you go after fastest line-up I'd say:
Preserve and Necropolis offers best line-ups and choices for Speed. Preserve may opt to drop the level 2 entirely from the fast moving creatures. Creature portal offers a replacement. (Preserve players who gave for speed should avoid taking the Waspwort from the creature portal.)

Asylum has a good speed line-up if they opt for Dragons and Efreet. If you build for Hydra/Nightmare then you're not building for speed.

As number 4 I'd say fairly even between Academy and Stronghold.

The worst town is Haven. Only the level 4 is fast and the rest falls far behind.

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HALT
HALT


Known Hero
Knight of Justice
posted May 05, 2002 06:21 PM

you know what people just forget it. Im not gonna post about the game any more. Looks like im too stupid for that. So just forget it.


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Largo_LeGrande
Largo_LeGrande


Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
posted May 05, 2002 06:44 PM

Don't say that, at least I find this topic really interesting. And about that morale affecting on adventure map. That's a good idea. The better moral you have, the further you will get. Luck should also affect on adventure map: whit better luck you should get more when visiting creature banks and taking resources, treasure chest etc... maybe whit good luck neutral armies woudn't always attack your army. And of course whit bad moral/luck it would act vise versa.

I also remember an old idea about passive/active morale/luck. When having good morale the creatures would ALWAYS move faster (combat and adventure) and whit good luck enemies always do less damage. That's active morale. But at its turn the creature/hero has precent possibility for an extra turn (or the creture would be freezed in combat) just like in HOMM III. That's passive. Passive luck makes double damage or half damage (if under 1 the attack would miss). Luck should also affect precent abilities.

But better moral -> more damage? Wow didn't know that.

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Henl86
Henl86


Known Hero
oLd SkOoL RA2 OwNaH
posted May 05, 2002 10:24 PM

Yeah, take it easy dude, you were wrong about a movement matter, and now you  won't post? That'd be a shame since you seem to be willing to go to great lengths just to post some usefull information like you did here.

I don't think good moral=more damage...

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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted May 06, 2002 01:09 AM

HALT, your post is not useless. It clearly shows which town has faster troops in general.
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