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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Revisting H7 Five Years Later: The Best Heroes?
Thread: Revisting H7 Five Years Later: The Best Heroes? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted December 23, 2020 04:49 PM

Rimgrabber said:
Iím certainly going to try. Iíll have to learn how to mod first, but Iíll try.


Well, there's always Antalyan, who's one of the H7 enthusiasts trying to mod it since forever, even under a rain of pounding from criticism everywhere; I think I'm even faulty at that, because I was so affronted by the game itself.

Maybe you could try and contact him? Share some ideas.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Ė Portal 2

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 23, 2020 04:54 PM
Edited by Rimgrabber at 16:55, 23 Dec 2020.

I sent him a message, but it looks like he hasn't gotten it yet. We'll see I guess. I'm gonna see if I can put a team together.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted December 23, 2020 07:48 PM

He's not been active for a while. Even in CH as well. Probably busy with other things, and basically working alone, it looked like. Some other stuff, which might help.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Ė Portal 2

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 24, 2020 01:07 AM

This is indeed helpful. Thanks a bunch!

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 26, 2020 02:35 PM
Edited by Stevie at 14:44, 26 Dec 2020.

Alright. After reading your post there about Heroes 7, I just had to do this short, but very important and revealing, mental exercise. I asked myself this simple question: "What did I like about Heroes 7?" And I immediately drew a blank. After not coming up with anything, I asked my brother, who played it recently even and overall more than I did, and his answer was outright "nothing". After pondering a bit more, we finally found something we liked, which is a number of creature designs (he said Treant, I liked the Reaper guy).

But that just goes to tell how awful and forgettable that whole game is. Does it deserve a second chance? No. Is it worth modding into shape? In my view, no. Should I waste my time trying to dig for enjoyment? Definitely no. I had hope for a while against all odds, but realized it's not even close to being the ideal Heroes it was meant to be and eventually gave up. No reason to go back to it.

I also do not have any hope that Ubisoft is capable of delivering a good Heroes game in the future. They seem clueless about what made this franchise successful in the first place. The fact that they're prone to just jump from one inexperienced developer to another does not help either. There's also the fact that M&M has currently the worst reputation it has ever had, meaning that if they ever decide to greenlight a project in the same ballpark, they'd likely find it more appealing to start a new IP from scratch instead of investing in Heroes.

Yea. We're right now in the Dark Age of Might & Magic and its harbinger was Heroes 7. I can't bring myself to look kindly on that title no matter what. That's leaving aside the technical aspects of the game and how it fails on so many levels, because I'd have to write triple the amount you did in your post and it's frankly not worth the time, I have done that in the past. But I guess I can leave you with this link to ELB's post-mortem on Heroes 7 in this interview on Acid Cave. Take from that what you will.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted December 26, 2020 09:21 PM

Hey, nice OP. Even if I disagree with a lot of it, I once saw the same potential in H7 as I think you do. I've put thousands of hours into the game and have modded the crap out of it because I also like most of the visuals/creature designs. I've got a almost fully working mod right now with new factions/creatures, but even with the new stuff, rebalancing, and old heroes features added, H7 just does not play enough like the old games. I'll explain why.

Rimgrabber said:

The core game mechanics of Heroes 7 are actually, in my opinion, very very good. Unbalanced and unrefined, yes, but so were H3 and H5 when they first came out. It was the expansion packs and the modding that made them into the gems we know and love today.



Expansion packs maybe, but not the mods. Both h3 and h5 are practically 10/10 with no mods. Obviously you're opinion is your own but H7 at its core is why the game is so unpopular and modding cannot save it.

I went HAM on my mod when I first got the hang of how it works. The first thing I did was change the factions around to how I liked. Redid a lot of the scaling for creatures and balance changes, like a 1x1 Swordmaster champion with higher growth for Haven. Added plenty of new creatures to the game and a H3 fortress and inferno (with Lizard's help). Redid the stats of basically all the creatures so that a 7 tier line up would work. Removed town level restrictions for castles. And there is plenty more.
And honestly this whole process of modding and play testing the maps with my mod was the most fun I ever had with this game. Making your own factions and creature stats is really fun if you've been playing Homm for a long time. And I would recommend it to anyone who thinks that might sound fun. But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't the same boring experience underneath all those layers of mods, once you get over the novelty of it. The AI in the game is grade A  doggy doodoo. This cannot be fixed. The creatures will still make broken decisions in battle. The neutral creature growth is fixed on this weekly growth so they always get out of hand and it ruins the game imo. The enemy wont stop making too many heroes and wont bother plundering the map. The enemy will also send its week's worth of units at you non stop once it finds your position--- even when you will obviously win the encounter.

I would typically catch myself starting a game, building up my castle and army with their upgrades, and then maybe killing one of the enemy castles before I'm done with it completely and just quit. Actually taking my army to clear neutrals in this game is a chore. Its like playing h3 and having a gem mine be guarded by 500 crusaders on week 3. After my hero is built the way I want and I have a sweet army it only takes a few battles for me to be bored. Modding the game adds a new spark to it for sure, but it all too quickly turns back into the dull abomination that is H7


I also thought the faction skills were terrible in H7
Haven and Sylvan have the best ones for sure. Stronghold's penalizes you for being strategic while academy's is just overall not that good. Dungeon's is super underpowered until it's mastered, then its the most OP thing in the game lol. and meanwhile Everybody seemed to like H5's new way of doing necromancy, and so they changed it....
most of these would need a total redesign



Some things I thought H7 did well was with the ability you'd get when a regular skill is mastered, particularly the magic schools. Things like Mastery of Air added lighting damage to creature attacks, Mastery of Earth was 15% hp, or mastery of Estates was 10%+ gold income. After they implemented the random skills it was fun to see what combinations I could get.
I also thought most of the creature designs were really cool. Even if the basic units look better than the upgrade majority of the time.



But yeah all in all the game cannot be saved imho. I could go on and on with nitpicks as I'm sure everyone else could. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if the ultimate redesign mod comes out lol. Ubisoft sure as hell won't be making anything worth a damn in the meantime!


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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
posted December 27, 2020 10:00 AM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 10:01, 27 Dec 2020.

At least I finally got around to playing it, 5 years after release .
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 27, 2020 10:05 AM

Hey isn't it Dies! Long time no see, how are you doing?

So what is your verdict?
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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
posted December 27, 2020 12:00 PM

Galaad said:
Hey isn't it Dies! Long time no see, how are you doing?

So what is your verdict?


Hey, likewise . 2020 has been a snowy year, but I pulled through. So, all things considered, I am doing quite well.

I actually played a teensy tiny bit in 2018 right after buying my new and current PC, but then I forgot all about H7 when a friend introduced me to Dark Souls III. And then other games came along that I was really eager to play too.

Effectively I started playing H7 for real this year. And not too long ago I did a 'legacy run' where I started with H6, then went to H7 and ended with H5. Just to see how well the stories connect and what references there were in H5 that now make more sense. Spoiler, not that many, save for the mention of characters like Solmyr and Sandro, and the phrase "Run like Crag Hack is on your heels", and perhaps something else I can't think of right now.

I recently bought Dark Messiah of Might and Magic and will give it a go soon .

So, my verdict of H7: OST is gorgeous, especially the tracks added with Trial by Fire. Visually it's stunning, for example the city of Hammer Fall in the Haven campaign. You can tell that a lot of work went into building the environment. That has left the game with gaps in other areas, though. It tends to be buggy, to a point where you're wondering if the game really is as complete as they made it out to be.

One highly exploitable glitch that I found, is when you combo Legionnaires with Imperial Griffins. If both troops stand next to each other at the start of combat, simply don't move your Legionnaires but do use the Griffin's dive ability. They will land away from the Legionnaires obviously, but the shield guard buff doesn't go away until the Legionnaire itself performs an action. You will have your own living, Griffin shield wall .

The difference in difficulty setting is...well...spectacular. If I go Hard/Heroic the AI melts me before you can say 'For Ashan!', yet on lower difficulties I have no trouble wiping the floor with everything. That lack of balance in challenge makes it a bit tedious to play larger maps. There is no real resistance anywhere, especially when you're a Necromancer carrying 1000 skellies around.

I am glad they nerfed the town portalling, and removed the converting of cities to your faction (plus the single creature pool from where you draw your troops). At least now you are forced again to make sure each city is well defended, rather than having one OP superhero warp around on a whim like in H6. Don't ge me wrong, I love that in H6, but it would have been misplaced in H7.

There is a lot more I could go on about, but bottom line: I like it, despite its flaws.
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Strigo
Strigo


Hired Hero
posted December 27, 2020 05:43 PM

the fact that there's no news of h8 and that this subforum is dead should tell you everything you need to know about how h7 is

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slyen
slyen


Hired Hero
posted December 27, 2020 07:04 PM
Edited by slyen at 19:07, 27 Dec 2020.

hey, personally, I blame the AI ​​in this game, after playing in hot seal with my wife it's nice without being too demanding .... I love the universe and it could have been the best ... it However, I like to spend time creating things on the editor, I have made a lot of progress in blender, etc., I am currently working on a mod adding the inferno, with new skills etc. less work at the lord and successful level than the wpu mod and not translated . But it does not matter that amuses me and allows me to create (or try) 3d models and animated ones in the games . The h7 editor, although very unstable, remains an excellent modding tool.
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 28, 2020 04:57 AM

Draq, is your mod available for download? That sounds similar to what I'd like to do, it would be cool to have a point of reference.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

you lost your internet privileges

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted December 28, 2020 05:25 AM

I think I might have been able to share the mod's earlier version which included Erwin, but thankfully I got dragged into something else before I could receive it.
Yes, it's the same mod for which I made a naga model afaik.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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