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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Which of these heroes do you consider "fair play"?
Thread: Which of these heroes do you consider "fair play"?
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 01:58 PM

Which of these heroes do you consider "fair play"?

The title says it all.
Which of these heroes do you think it is fair to use as starting heroes:

Knights: Catherine, Roland & Sir Mullich
Rangers: Gelu
Wizards: Dracon
Demoniacs: Xeron
Death Knights: Galthran & Undead Lord Haart
Overlords: Mutare/Mutare Drake
Barbarians: Boragus & Kilgor
Witches: Adrienne

HotA heroes: Beatrice, Giselle, Kinkeria, Derek, Bidley & Tark

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 03, 2021 02:00 PM

Knights: Catherine, Roland.
Demoniacs: Xeron (Inferno needs a buff Ig)
Barbarians: Boragus
HotA: Beatrice, Giselle, Kinkeria
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 02:04 PM

What about Derek FirePaladin? He does start with a lot of Crew Mates though.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 03, 2021 02:11 PM

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46452

I am joking. Seaman powerstack is kinda OP tbh, possibly above the Oceanid powerstack, except for speed, with which you can kite.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 02:14 PM

So you find him "too much"?
Maybe if HotA decreased the number of Crew Mates a bit he would be acceptable?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 03, 2021 02:17 PM

Perhaps. He is still acceptable in certain scenarios, but really, even the default crew mates are kinda bulky.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 02:19 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 15:30, 03 Feb 2021.

Yeah I agree.
They also start with a good amount of pirates. Anabel is also a great hero.

EDIT: It just occured to me that Derek will give Seamen speed 7, which will make an upgraded Cove army have 7 as minimum speed.
That is quite fast on the adventure map and there is also month of the Crew Mate, which may also tip Derek on the no-go scale.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2021 04:16 PM

I'm a bit unsure if I understand the topic correctly, but if I do, probably the only really unfair ones would be Sir Mullich, Gelu, Dracon, Bidley and Tark. Possibly you could throw Galthran there as well.
Lvl 7 creature specialists as starting heroes are quite bad, by the time someone like Kilgor gets his first two Behemots, Tyraxor or Gretchin are already cleared all the valuables from the early zones anyway.

And Derek is most definitely a good hero, but overall falls behind Cassiopeia. Crewmates are way tankier, but usually one could get more consistent results with Cassio. Oceanids make your scouts fast since day one, are faster overall, they deal more damage, and Cassiopeia isn't screwed as often as Derek, who can roll Cassio, Jeremy, Anabel or even Ilor as secondary Cove native hero, and thus end up having less starting Crew mates.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 04:41 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 16:45, 03 Feb 2021.

Oh I think you understood the topic well enough, Hourglass.

Hmm level 7 specialists are a bit different from each other, Kilgor and Undead Lord Heart adds +5 attack and defense and +10 damage. That's a pretty huge bonus.

Mutare/Mutare Drake adds +5 attack and defense to ALL dragons, which could be good.

Xeron only adds +4 attack, +2 defense and +1 speed and he does'nt seem that broken to me, though I'm not a fan of static specialties.

Not sure about Derek, he seems to have lot going for him, but so does all Captains really.

Galthran is somewhere in the middle I guess, with Necromancy nerfed in HotA, he might not get THAT many skeletons anymore, though they do get a HUGE bonus.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2021 05:10 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 17:12, 03 Feb 2021.

@Phoenix4ever

The one thing I've learned from (don't puke) MP is that it is really, really beneficial to start off with a hero who has 2 or 3 stacks of the same creature. This let's you to do really kinda challenging fights from early on, and it's pretty much unmatched when compared to other heroes. So even someone like Mutare gives you an huge boost later on, she cannot really do anything "unfair" early on, and would be put to shame by Shakti. By time Mutare has something relevant, Shakti has high level, good artifacts, and likely has managed to build better army.

Galthran is really good hero, as he keeps scaling from beginning to the very end. Also, it turns out to be very effective strategy to build skeleton transformer in day 1 and simply dump everything you get from town and tavern into skeletons. This way, you can get around 150 skeletons as Galthran before leaving town.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 05:21 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 17:24, 03 Feb 2021.

Yes I can understand how those heroes would be important in multiplayer, were you need to be fast and claim stuff ASAP.

However on the long run (and maybe especially in singleplayer) other heroes could be important, such as Logistics, Offense and Armorer specialists or resource heroes. (I still think Leena and Elmore are broken.)

About Galthran with my mod Town Portal only takes me to nearest town, so it is'nt that easy to just convert everything into skeletons. Of course that is just the way I play. But yeah he is probably still a bit broken.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2021 06:43 PM

Well, usually there are experience boxes, so you won't necessary finish the map with the same hero you started it with. Sometimes, the starting hero is even dumped by the very first day. The armorer, logistics etc. specialist are definitely used in MP games.

About Leena and Elmore: When you say "broken", what do you mean exactly? I mean in what kind of situations you feel like they're op?

Sure, Leena can give you a lot of cash, but Cove offers much better starting heroes that can get you going. And if you're not starting with her, then any other player can find and hire her - Cove has only slightly better chances at obtaining her, and even those chances take place only in the very start of each week. Leena is also the worst Captain to be used as a main. As a side hero, she's good, but note that she cannot guarantee of having expert estates before lvl 5 and if you're going to lvl up her by using chests, then you're not taking gold from them = seriously hurting your potential early income.

Elmore is certainly great hero in water maps, but I cannot really say much more about him, as I don't tend to play maps with water. Movement in water sure is not as valuable as movement in land, thou. Also, I'm not sure if Elmore would feel as powerful if you would play with normal TP.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 08:23 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 22:27, 03 Feb 2021.

Leena gets you 600 gold per day from day 1. You don't have to main her or do anything with her really. Just being there gives you extra 600 gold every day.
At Expert/Impossible that is especially great.
If you play Cove you can pick her as starting hero and be guaranteed a lot of gold, then just find a more suited main later.

Elmore of course depends on the amount of water. I know multiplayers aren't fond of water maps, but in maps with a lot of water he really shines.
Imagine getting him at a Castle were you can build Lighthouse, he will be able to sail extremely far.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 09, 2021 08:48 PM

I'm pretty sure Lighthouse can't be built if the town isn't next to water. I might be wrong though.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 09, 2021 09:01 PM

Yes, but if you can build Shipyard, you can also build Lighthouse.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 09, 2021 09:07 PM

Chances for finding the Grail in the first 2 weeks are way higher than having a Shipyard town lol.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted February 09, 2021 10:22 PM

Catherine and Roland are just Sorsha clones (in fact Roland is a bit worse because his spec only helps crusaders, not base swordsmen) so they're fine, Mullich is imba, Gelu is imba, Dracon is imba, Xeron is fine, Galthran and Haart are imba, Mutare is fine, Kilgore is imba, Adrienne is not only fine but kinda sucks, Tark is fine, Bidley I'd say it depends on the map.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 09, 2021 10:28 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 22:30, 09 Feb 2021.

@FirePaladin In my map you can build Shipyard at all starting towns and most of the secondary towns as well.
But yeah normally it's pretty rare.

@RimGrabber Thanks for your input.
The Roland bug is fixed in HotA btw, I reported it myself or you can easily fix it yourself in other versions.

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