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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: H4 modding - unused but possible ideas
Thread: H4 modding - unused but possible ideas
NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 09, 2021 08:54 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:48, 11 Jul 2021.

H4 modding - unused but possible ideas

Some people believe my mod to be too "radical" for their tastes. Well, here's why they are wrong... there are a lot of ideas I had, and *could* have implemented, but decided not to. These ideas are for the most part perhaps a little too crazy, requiring another whole total conversion to feel "in place". However, they could still be used by modders.

So without further ado...

Skills. Of course icons and descriptions would have to get replaced:

* Golemization / Golemancy: Replace Necromancy with a skill that turns dead creatures into Golems (Basic)/Gargoyles (Expert)/Dragon Golems (Grandmaster). The Death town would have to be changed into an order-like faction of alchemists.

* Siegecrafting: Replaces Summoning into a skill that creates daily XP points of war machines (Ballistae and Catapults)

* Oceanmancy / Piratemongering: Similar to the previous, but you summon/resurrect Pirates, Mermaids and Sea Monsters.

* Demonmancy / Demoninvoking: You get the idea; same, but with demons. We have Imps, Cerberi and Devils. Additionally in case of needing more, we have Ice Demons, Venom Spawn, Efreet, and Oni Magi.

* Elementalization: Would turning your dead enemies into Elementals be out of the question? Well, maybe in H4 where necromancy is linear, but not in Equilibris mode where you can choose what to raise.

* Medicine: Replaces Sorcery. Gives +20% to all healing and resurrection. Achieved by switching all "healing" spells to "damage" mode in spell table, and vice versa. Good if you want to completely replace Chaos Magic.

* Idolatry: As the previous one, but you get 20/40/60/80/100% increased Summoning spells instead.

Would-be altered spells for total conversion mods:
* Repair: Resurrections that work only on Mechanical
* Raising/Summoning Gargoyles and Golems.
* "It's alive!": Rebirthing only undead (different than animate, as they stay after combat).
* Summoning Angels for Life (Only in Greatest Mod)

Unused/Discarded spells for balance reasons:
(Some of these could be added with the theoretical mass plugin anyways and made scroll-only very expensive spells.)
* Mass Hypnotize / Mass Charm
* Mass Confusion
* Mass Wasp Swarm
* Mass Guardian Angel
* Mass Immortality
* Mass Resurrection
* Mirror Aberration (Mass Clone)
* Universal Hand of Death (would reap your own living creatures/heroes too)
* Universal Mana: Adds mana to all allies and enemies (even creatures).

Spells cancelled because I ran out of space in the exe list and there's no plugin
* Mass Poison
* Mass Freezing Attack
* Mass Flight (Angel's Wings)
* Mass Quickness (2 extra rounds of an additional attack)
* Mass Corpse Robbery (Death Call all enemies)
* Mass Terrain Walk
* Mass Magic Resistance
* Mass Anti-Magic
* Mass Life Ward
* Mass Defender
* Mass Acid / Dust to Dust (debuffs living, destroys all corpses)

* Mass Spell Shackle
* Mass Magic Leech
* Mass Power Drain

Would have positively affected enemies too:
* Universal Pain Mirror
* Universal Cat Reflexes

Damage:
* Mass Magic Fist
* Mass Ice Bolt
* Mass Frost Ring?
* Mass Fiery Arrow
* mass Illusionary Fist
* Mass Implosion

Creatures unused ideas:
* Skeletons curse enemies
* Zombies resurrect (only in Greatest Mod)
* Undead Pirates of the Caribbean
* More creatures from hero graphs (Ex. Bard girl, Mysterio mage, etc.)

Town ideas (also for possible future H3-like mod with town screen editing):
* H4 Forge town
* H4 Conflux
* H4 Rampart
* H4 H3-like Castle
* H4 Dungeon (only in Greatest Mod)
* H4 separate Inferno (only in Greatest Mod)
* H4 separate Necropolis (only in Greatest Mod)
* H4 Sea town/cove (only in Greatest Mod)

...and many original town ideas as well:
* Dark North - AKA the Parapet
(evil snow town with  Dark Champion, Gargoyle, Goblin Knight, Evil Sorceress, Gargantuan, Ice Demon, etc.)
* Ancient Ruin - AKA the Monolith
(mesoamerican-style overgrown town with Gold Golems, Mummies, Waspworts, Troglodytes, Skeletons, Mantis and Hydra)
* Necrodungeon - AKA the Crypt
(Why infernopolis, and not necrodungeon? They are both underground after all... this has Beholders, Medusas, Vampires and Venom Spawns, amongst other creepy stuff)
* Inferdungeon - AKA the Crater
(Idem, but with fire stuff like Efreeti and Nightmares combined with Cerberus, Devils and Imps.)
* Alchemy Town - AKA the Laboratory
(Like Tower and Necropolis combined, a town of golems and undead.)
* Storm Town - AKA the Vortex
(Air Elementals, Titans, Lightning Birds, and so forth, as well as silver-metallic stuff.)
* Desert town - AKA the Alcazar
(only in Greatest Mod.)

And much, much more! I just don't continue because I have to release the actual H4 Ultimate with none of these things. How exciting! (for people that wanted less changes it is, of course )
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted July 10, 2021 12:14 PM

Of course all new content is welcome. But for real new faction and units we need new game engine. Replacing summoned and necromanted units is needed especially when necro is inferno sceleton growth is nonsensible. In this case should be imps. And in nature if its conflux sholud summon pixies elementals if rampart wolves elfs tigers and unicorns. It have sense even present egine modding. It can be used too for chaos when you have no additional growth.

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Assryn
Assryn


Adventuring Hero
posted July 10, 2021 01:34 PM
Edited by Assryn at 22:20, 19 Jan 2022.

I agree that a skill to craft mechanical units would be pretty interesting, maybe based on the summoning skill from nature magic ? It could lend itself to the idea of an alchemist liek in Heroes 3 or something like it

And yes, new factions would be a game changer, and I'd argue that Greatest Mod took great steps in that direction, if only by reshuffling stuff around (but then again, I also understand that people may not want factions changed).

For the purpose of worldbuilding for the campaigns I mentionned I was working on, I did quite a bit of "faction brainstorming", drawing lots of inspiration from the abandonned plans for NWC's H5, and from the CCTG's two factions of despair and hope, as well as Jennifer Bullard's files about the OG plans for H4. I took lots of notes on how to potentially make them work, but they would require heavy work at the very least on the graphics/sprites side of things which, if they require replacing other stuff, I don't know if people would be interested in. I guess the key of it all would be to have people interested in making models to animate, then turn into sprites for them, and that would be a long shot... But I have to say, that would be amazing !

(To illustrate what I mean, here's the "faction board" I made to help me write up the campaigns:


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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted July 10, 2021 07:52 PM

Assryn said:
For the purpose of worldbuilding for the campaigns I mentionned I was working on, I did quite a bit of "faction brainstorming", drawing lots of inspiration from the abandonned plans for NWC's H5, and from the CCTG's two factions of despair and hope, as well as Jennifer Bullard's files about the OG plans for H4. I took lots of notes on how to potentially make them work, but they would require heavy work at the very least on the graphics/sprites side of things which, if they require replacing other stuff, I don't know if people would be interested in. I guess the key of it all would be to have people interested in making models to animate, then turn into sprites for them, and that would be a long shot... But I have to say, that would be amazing !


If you have the time and ability to create the models and render them, it would probably be worth it to do so.

Even if we aren't able to fully add new units, it could still be a fun mod to replace stuff, especially for your own campaigns

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 10, 2021 10:31 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:17, 11 Jul 2021.

Assryn said:
I agree that a skill to craft mechanical units would be pretty interesting, maybe based on the summoning skill from nature magic ? It could lend itself to the idea of an alchemist liek in Heroes 3 or something like it

And yes, new factions would be a game changer, and I'd argue that Greatest Mod took great steps in that direction, if only by reshuffling stuff around (but then again, I also understand that people may not want factions changed).

For the purpose of worldbuilding for the campaigns I mentionned I was working on, I did quite a bit of "faction brainstorming", drawing lots of inspiration from the abandonned plans for NWC's H5, and from the CCTG's two factions of despair and hope, as well as Jennifer Bullard's files about the OG plans for H4. I took lots of notes on how to potentially make them work, but they would require heavy work at the very least on the graphics/sprites side of things which, if they require replacing other stuff, I don't know if people would be interested in. I guess the key of it all would be to have people interested in making models to animate, then turn into sprites for them, and that would be a long shot... But I have to say, that would be amazing !

(To illustrate what I mean, here's the "faction board" I made to help me write up the campaigns:




We have some base sprites to convert, though it is a lot of work as for the present time.

BTW you have bad code for images.
https://imgur.com/ly5LXWJ
https://imgur.com/nyPVPhh

You only use the "img" direct link when you link to the file with the png, jpg or gif extension. Your files are indirect to a page now, hence they should use URL. Here's the fix:

[img ]https://i.imgur.com/ly5LXWJ.png[/ img]

[img ]https://i.imgur.com/nyPVPhh.png[/ img]

As for the factions, Death is similar enough to the one I made. The others, not so much, most there are similar to H4, but I'm intrigued about the new creatures (besides the ones from the card game).
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Never changing = never improving

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted July 10, 2021 11:33 PM

Especially full replacing by H5NWC style content would be great work! If you have abilities. Axolotl was made something.

sphinx

He made sphinx model. Maybe can be used?

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Assryn
Assryn


Adventuring Hero
posted July 11, 2021 03:59 AM
Edited by Assryn at 04:16, 11 Jul 2021.

iliveinabox05 said:

If you have the time and ability to create the models and render them, it would probably be worth it to do so.

Even if we aren't able to fully add new units, it could still be a fun mod to replace stuff, especially for your own campaigns


I have time and motivation for that, but sadly I don't have those abilities, I could make mock-ups, maybe, of the creatures, but I'm not sure about the final result :/ !

Baronus said:
Especially full replacing by H5NWC style content would be great work! If you have abilities. Axolotl was made something.

sphinx

He made sphinx model. Maybe can be used?


Yes, I saw what he did with the sphinx, and I really like it ! It's actually the sprite I used for the WIP portrait of the sphinx for my own use on this "grid" of sorts

If I had any actual ability to implement it, I'd really consider asking Axolotl wether they'd be interested, but as I said many times I don't know now much about modding, and I'm currently focusing on writting said campaigns and translating/proofreading everything to english

NimoStar said:


We have some base sprites to convert, though it is a lot of work as for the present time.

BTW you have bad code for images.

You only use the "img" direct link when you link to the file with the png, jpg or gif extension. Your files are indirect to a page now, hence they should use URL. Here's the fix:

As for the factions, Death is similar enough to the one I made. The others, not so much, most there are similar to H4, but I'm intrigued about the new creatures (besides the ones from the card game).


Thanks for letting me know about the code Nimo, I never post images directly so I had no idea how to fix that. It should be good now
And for the factions, I feel like this line-up idea for death seems to be the most logical for a pure undead version for most people, so it felt right to go with that and yes, the rest aside from chaos and to a lesser extent might and nature, the others are left unchanged both because the line-ups feel right to me, and for Life, because it's closest it could be to the NWC H5 version, and for Order because I saw no point in making changes when the faction feels already solid thematicaly I'll say I didn't go for any extrem innovation for Life Order and Death haha !

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 11, 2021 08:22 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:17, 19 Jul 2021.

Well, curiously enough, to me "Order" didn't make sense thematically. Creatures are ambiented in the desert but its native town is... snow.
And you have the Emilia order campaign, in which basically nothing is snow.

But it does show the Order town is actually made from a ragtag band of refugees. So it wasn't even made to completely fit. I guess on the other hand, aesthetics is subjective. I vowed not to change any creature slots for Ultimate, and I didn't, but if I did, "Order" lineup would be the first to go.- FOrtunately there was the Greatest Mod for that ; )  - At least, I could recolor the uber saturated dark purple wizards (life colors!), which was the most annoying part
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Never changing = never improving

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted July 11, 2021 12:43 PM

Yes sphinx is sprite but Axolotl was made blender model which can be easy convert to pictures! If you contact him mabe share you it. If you need H5 version we need modelmakers. It takes a lot of times ofcourse. About 36 models...

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 21, 2022 07:11 AM

Strange. Assryn edited first message :v

Anyways, i'm still waiting for the plugin support for some of these. The perspective of new mass spells is for me exciting. I like to design spells and there are never enough of them.

(Much the same happened to me when I filled all 255 possible unique item slots in my MechCommander mod and it wasn't enough, but I disgress... we don't even have 255 spells in H4)
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Never changing = never improving

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