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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Human AI mod for ERA
Thread: Human AI mod for ERA This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
demoixas
demoixas


Hired Hero
posted February 03, 2022 12:28 PM

It always gives me a good feeling when I see AI improvement mods.

As far as I understand all these are just cheats to the AI?

For example:
-More skeletons are given for free after a battle?
-Free demons are given for free after a battle even in the combat they didn't rise demons?
-AI replacing skills: skills are overwritten with others? For example, if I choose scouting skill on level up, then it automatically deletes scouting and replaces it with offensive?
-Funneling Troops: It just teleports troops from hero to hero without heroes are touching each other?



Also, I set HireMoreHeroes to 8 but AI still hires only 5 heroes even it has money, many troops and it is a late game. (Expert Difficulty 160%)

Also, does increasing the AI radius to more than 32000 actually gives any benefits with this mod?

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 03, 2022 02:34 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 14:40, 03 Feb 2022.

Quote:
For example:
-More skeletons are given for free after a battle?
-Free demons are given for free after a battle even in the combat they didn't rise demons?
-AI replacing skills: skills are overwritten with others? For example, if I choose scouting skill on level up, then it automatically deletes scouting and replaces it with offensive?
-Funneling Troops: It just teleports troops from hero to hero without heroes are touching each other?

Though I can't answer the last three questions, I think I know the answer to the first one. In the original game AI heroes raise only 1 skeleton per battle against another AI hero or neutral armies, despite of the actual amount of skeletons they should have risen. It's a well-known bug. So, all these years we played against Necromancers which don't know how to make skeletons

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted February 04, 2022 01:27 AM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 01:56, 04 Feb 2022.

demoixas said:
It always gives me a good feeling when I see AI improvement mods.

As far as I understand all these are just cheats to the AI?

Technically, these features are cheats; as far as I know there is no way with ERM to actually change the AI. However the idea is that these cheats are done such that AI is only getting benefits that leave them with heroes like a human might have.
- Necro isn't "more skeletons," it's "the right number of skeletons."
- Demon farming isn't "free demons," it's the number of demons that they should get after sacrificing some of their own units, given how many Pit Lords they have.
- You are correct about the secondary skills.
- You are correct about troop funneling, but again, a skilled human will funnel troops easily- that is why this feature only works when the AI heroes in fog of war.


demoixas said:
Also, I set HireMoreHeroes to 8 but AI still hires only 5 heroes even it has money, many troops and it is a late game. (Expert Difficulty 160%)

Also, does increasing the AI radius to more than 32000 actually gives any benefits with this mod?

- Currently the AI will only hire up to 2 extra heroes each week, but should eventually reach the amount you specify. Did you have multiple AI in the game that could have killed each other? Or perhaps it is a bug, I will investigate.
EDIT: I tried it out, it works for me with the setting at 8. However they only hire up to one fewer hero than defined (7 if you set it to 8), because they save the last hero slot for when a high-level hero appears in the tavern.

- I know that AI radius does make a difference, but I doubt it makes much/any difference to go higher than 32000.


AlexSpl said:
So, all these years we played against Necromancers which don't know how to make skeletons

Yep!

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 04, 2022 07:14 AM

Quote:
- Necro isn't "more skeletons," it's "the right number of skeletons."


Well, unless it was compensated, it's the right number plus one
____________
Never changing = never improving

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted February 04, 2022 09:28 AM

Haha! Indeed you are correct, I will have to adjust for that

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demoixas
demoixas


Hired Hero
posted February 04, 2022 01:36 PM

-Suggestion: By default, AI heroes carry only 6 units out of 7 slots. 7th are filled only if they get addition unit by diplomacy or get a reward unit from dwellings and in similar situations and ultimately later that 7th slot unit AI drops at the nearest Town or give to another friendly hero. And ultimately still carries only 6 units. Maybe it would be possible to force the main and strongest hero to always carry 7 slot units in the army?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 04, 2022 03:05 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 15:12, 04 Feb 2022.

phe said:
impossible to replace AI entirely?
Do you really think the creatures & objects in Heroes III are so beautiful people  still play it because of them, despise a bad AI?
I mean, you can improve certain details but globally it's a pretty good AI.
____________

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted February 05, 2022 03:48 AM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 03:48, 05 Feb 2022.

demoixas said:
-Suggestion: By default, AI heroes carry only 6 units out of 7 slots. 7th are filled only if they get addition unit by diplomacy or get a reward unit from dwellings and in similar situations and ultimately later that 7th slot unit AI drops at the nearest Town or give to another friendly hero. And ultimately still carries only 6 units. Maybe it would be possible to force the main and strongest hero to always carry 7 slot units in the army?

Human AI should already do this

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Celfious
Celfious


Promising
Legendary Hero
Regular
posted February 05, 2022 03:27 PM

This is an interesting thread. I like hearing the context of AI can do this, and AI gets that.

I cant tell for sure but it seems like Amaranth did a pretty good job with the heroes engine limitations to programed AI.
____________
Yeah no

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 05, 2022 03:47 PM

I would prefer that all improvements are customizable - up to real hardcore, as in Conquistador. That way, any player, regardless his skills, can get for his money. From the screens I see, AI does a bit better, but still very easy to crush by any experienced player.

An utopia, for example, can be taken week two by human player, so an AI doing that 3 weeks later isn't challenging enough, imo.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted February 05, 2022 06:35 PM

Depends on map, your map doesn't work with AI, for example?. The best test game is New Brave World (AB/3DO) in maximum difficult. And the next map is Illusion world III (AB/CH), I always use them. Important is AI friend, no AI abuse.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted February 05, 2022 11:31 PM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 02:14, 06 Feb 2022.

Salamandre said:
I would prefer that all improvements are customizable - up to real hardcore, as in Conquistador. That way, any player, regardless his skills, can get for his money. From the screens I see, AI does a bit better, but still very easy to crush by any experienced player.

An utopia, for example, can be taken week two by human player, so an AI doing that 3 weeks later isn't challenging enough, imo.

Hello Sal, good to see you

I agree, but I think Human AI should be used with Conquistador for those kinds of games, just without Human AI's hero replacement features active.
The scope of Human AI is not quite as far in the hardcore direction as Conquistador

Celfious said:
This is an interesting thread. I like hearing the context of AI can do this, and AI gets that.

I cant tell for sure but it seems like Amaranth did a pretty good job with the heroes engine limitations to programed AI.

Thank you!

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Fanofheroes
Fanofheroes


Famous Hero
posted February 06, 2022 04:41 AM
Edited by Fanofheroes at 04:42, 06 Feb 2022.

Nice touch!

I guess another good way, in addition, to boost the AI without having them "cheat" is if some AI opponents are united as a team, with regards to seeing more of the map, sharing resources, sharing obelisks etc, but still have the AI attack themselves, maybe just not as often?  Maybe like some kind of random alliances between the AI for certain periods of time.  Maybe have them think the other AI has a stronger army so they flee each other, until a specific date.  Whenever I've played custom maps where all the AI were on a team, it was very difficult to find grails, and their armies were naturally larger instead of artificially larger.  

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 06, 2022 06:03 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 06:03, 06 Feb 2022.

You can already make maps where AI are allied for that.

The thing I hate the most about fake AI is that they will shadow-ally eachother against the player. That is NOT a free for all game you ordered!
And that is not "human AI" that is inhuman ai which has a "hivemind" power.

If you want AI to not be allies, they should not be allied. If you want AI to ally, just do it.
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Never changing = never improving

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted February 06, 2022 06:29 AM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 06:30, 06 Feb 2022.

Human AI doesn't touch alliances. I agree that it's easy enough to set them as allied at map creation, if one desires.

A hybrid allying concept is interesting, but I'm not sure how it would make things different vs. being allied from map start.

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted June 15, 2022 01:11 AM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 01:12, 15 Jun 2022.

I forgot to bump this with a few updates that have happened since the initial post.

Since then Human AI has been rewritten to use ERM2, has had several bug fixes, feature improvements, and now helps AI consolidate, combine(!), and equip artifacts on their main heroes in ways that make sense.


Also, if a moderator could help me figure out what's wrong with my first post's URL tag, that would be great (Am I missing permissions?).

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wbane
wbane

Tavern Dweller
posted July 30, 2022 12:05 AM

I'm very interested in this mod. Is there any recent feedback?
Does the game really increase in difficulty? Random maps are normally affected?
____________

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EEAmeranth
EEAmeranth

Tavern Dweller
posted August 06, 2022 11:07 AM
Edited by EEAmeranth at 11:07, 06 Aug 2022.

I think it does increase difficulty in a fun way, but of course I am biased

I tested it primarily in random maps, where it works well. I am certain some of the more involved/creative custom scenarios could see some issues with this.

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