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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Countdown to H4 Ultimate V8 - New vampire look and more
Thread: Countdown to H4 Ultimate V8 - New vampire look and more This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 18, 2023 07:05 PM

Countdown to H4 Ultimate V8 - New vampire look and more

Before March as the most likely, you will have access to heroes 4 Ultimate V8

Instead of creating multiple threads about the new features and changes, all will be condensed here.

Do note that this is *mostly* a polish version, and as such there will be no extremely major changes. However, Chaos and Nature might hero skills have been changed, as well as Order hero skills.





Furthermore, there is a new look for vampires. When static, they will look rather "cold" as other undead do in the mod. However, when attacking, their attack and draining will look red. This was originally designed this way before game management thinking they would put no blood at all in the product.

The new look of vampires will also remind players that there is a nontrivial new ability, Magic Vulnerability, which means Vampires will never be protected against spells. Furthermore, due to this, Necromancy raising Vampires (instead of Succubi) was restored.





In fact, the fountain at vampire mansion was originally intended to be a blood fountain. This has already been re-implemented in ULTIMATE now! Both in the Adventure Map, and in town.



Respond for more news about current changes
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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun


Hired Hero
posted February 19, 2023 10:00 AM
Edited by BrucknerHun at 10:01, 19 Feb 2023.

Amazing! Can't wait to try it out!

I am really lookking forward to the new bloody vampire!

Keep it up the awesome work Nemo!

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baronus
baronus


Legendary Hero
posted February 19, 2023 09:55 PM

Nice! Maybe new monster eg. named nosferatu with another ability than drain life? New look new unit! I think that all your new units should be extracted and adres to h4zero system to have maximum number of units! We dont have new abilities but we can use new combination of podest! It can be new gameplay style!

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 20, 2023 06:09 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 20:49, 21 Feb 2023.

Thanks for your kind comments

***

baronus said:
Nice! Maybe new monster eg. named nosferatu with another ability than drain life? New look new unit! I think that all your new units should be extracted and adres to h4zero system to have maximum number of units! We dont have new abilities but we can use new combination of podest! It can be new gameplay style!


That is eventually planned (perhaps for v9/10), but as of yet I coudn't compile H4zero system. I can read and modify all the c++ code no problem, but some files are missing from the download and i hjave yet to research how to regenerate them

I have planned to reintroduce this way the replaced creatures venom Spawn (now Succubi), Waspwort (now Forest Warden), Gargoyles (now Frostwights) and Trolls (now Werewolves). Perhaps also monks (now Priestess)

***

Now for already implemented changes, not all resolutions displayed the H4 Ultimate background, which could be confusing for some users with unusual resolution configuration. Now, all resolutions have the correct remastered background


(editing in GIMP)


***

Also working on a nice new VS map in the desert



***

Death campaign has been fixed and re-enhanced, and now all campaigns will start by default in their Remastered forms when opening with the mod Exe, even from the campaign menu

This includes campaigns from Heroes 4 base game, Gathering Storm, and Winds of War.

(you can still open the un-remastered campaigns from the corresponding Scenario tab or by starting the unmodded version of the game)

Also working on a new map for Erutan Revol's campaign, much like the Spazz Maticus campaign has an extra opening mission


Remastered II Half-Dead campaign start
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 20, 2023 08:53 PM

Thanks to the reports of Brucknerhun, we have newly restored/fixed/never before seen (fidget) anims for the ULTIMATE Bone Dragons and efreeti



Keep up the good work, people! : )
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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun


Hired Hero
posted February 21, 2023 07:48 PM

Amazing!!

Soo good, that now every creature has working and restored animation!!

And I am soo happy, that you still see the potential in H4zero system! I am gonna invite him to our discord as well!

I can see a bright future ahead of Heroes IV!

Keep it up this awesome work!

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Sammyboi123
Sammyboi123


Hired Hero
posted July 30, 2023 12:08 AM
Edited by Sammyboi123 at 00:11, 30 Jul 2023.

I downloaded and tried out Ultimate, and got to say I quite like it. It is a refreshing change from Equilibris.

I do have one complaint though, related to the starting skills of heroes.  So all magic heroes and the tactical-might heroes (knight/death knight) and the lord all start with their optional 4th skill.  This isnít necessarily a good thing, and has a subtle way of punishing you for going for an advanced class other than the basic combat+X (the ďpuristĒ build).

Let me explain what I mean; letís say Iím playing Nature and start with a Druid, and want to go for a warlock build (Chaos+Nature).  The problem is that Iím going to be continually offered advanced summoning, which is polluting my skill options on level up, because the game is thinking ďoh he took summoning let me keep offering that skillĒ.  But I donít want summoning, I have enough skills to worry about leveling up Nature magic, chaos magic, the 2 mana and potency skills supporting them, and my combat and magic resistance.  

The only time you want that optional skill is when going for a purist build where you get just those skills and your combat and Magic resistance.  Donít get me wrong, these are solid builds- they are straightforward, donít require as many levels to fully develop, you can take advantage of the optional skill, and if you find an appropriate staff artifact or secondary skill necklace (druids chain, ahkn of life, etc) these are the ideal artifacts for these builds.. but players are being subtly forced into it, even if that staff is instead rolled a tomb of order and you want to do an enchanter build.

Anyways thatís my one gripe, but otherwise like the mod.  Great job on the resolution and stability enhancements in particular.  

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 30, 2023 08:58 AM

I have been reminded that I never did release v8 it was sitting 99% done in my hard drive for the better part of a year just because I can't muster the strength to add a few more tree sprites for custom maps "as I intended"...

With a bit of luck, soon.

***

Well, thanks for the review. I will keep in mind the grievance, but I don't think it's entirely accurate. The offerings of skills are more or less hardcoded to one main skill you have, a subskill you have, and a third one. The ways of multi-classing aren't thus much changed. In most cases, you already depended on witch huts, magic universities, skill altars, etc. for making an intended buy. My recommendation is, don't wait for your intended second skill to appear on level-up: Get it from the map, or a town with the relevant building.
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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun


Hired Hero
posted July 30, 2023 10:47 AM

Finally you are back Nemo!

From such a long time, I thought your are just vanished. I am glad that you are back! ;D

Next update release date when??

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Sammyboi123
Sammyboi123


Hired Hero
posted July 31, 2023 08:29 PM

NimoStar said:
I have been reminded that I never did release v8 it was sitting 99% done in my hard drive for the better part of a year just because I can't muster the strength to add a few more tree sprites for custom maps "as I intended"...

With a bit of luck, soon.

***

Well, thanks for the review. I will keep in mind the grievance, but I don't think it's entirely accurate. The offerings of skills are more or less hardcoded to one main skill you have, a subskill you have, and a third one. The ways of multi-classing aren't thus much changed. In most cases, you already depended on witch huts, magic universities, skill altars, etc. for making an intended buy. My recommendation is, don't wait for your intended second skill to appear on level-up: Get it from the map, or a town with the relevant building.


Thank you for the reply and consideration of the issue.  I agree that when possible, players should take a new skill at basic level from the map rather than through level up (although personally I donít like spending 2000 gold at a school or university before my tier 4 dwelling is built, so sometimes the timing is off and Iíll take the skill via level). Thatís just being efficient with your skill development.  

The issue is more so with when you are out clearing the map and leveling up, again it is difficult to explain without an example but say you are playing as Chaos and spot an opportunity to learn nature magic from the map- there is a witchís hut with nature magic and you spot a magic university offering meditation.  Ok great, we are going to hire a necromancer at the start of week 2 and have them learn those skills and start a demonologist.  Good pick, they can cover all the spells from the halls of the dead and witchís hall.  But even though we have no intention of ever using the skill necromancy, it will be offered regularly on level up since we start with it and any altars of death or libraries we come across could turn into duds by advancing necromancy instead of the core magic skills.

But anyways I donít want to sound like a complainer, overall the mod is great fun.  Like the commenter above me, we hope you are still working on it with updates.  Thanks

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 12, 2023 05:26 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 05:26, 12 Sep 2023.

Although necromancy will be offered "sometimes", when you acquire more skills that will not be such an issue.

The offered skills also depend on chosen subclass. So if you become a composite class, you will be offered necromancy less.

Anyways, Necromancy is one of the best skills in the game, so.

And, if you have a hero learn Death Magic from say, Witch Hut, Magic College, etc it will not be "offered regularly".

Isn't it only logical that a NECROMANCER-class hero uses NECROMANCY as a core skill?


***

BTW; I have been creating some extra graphics, isometric fully original. If I ever get around to using them ingame, time will tell. But these are exclusive of the mod, so no "Age of empires style", for example.


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baronus
baronus


Legendary Hero
posted September 12, 2023 08:44 AM

Nice! But now we have powerfull objects random generators! We can use AI! Try put pictures and generate new one!

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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun


Hired Hero
posted September 12, 2023 07:01 PM

Amazing ideas Nemo!

These buildings looks great keep it up this awesome work!!


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Sammyboi123
Sammyboi123


Hired Hero
posted September 13, 2023 05:32 AM
Edited by Sammyboi123 at 05:45, 13 Sep 2023.

NimoStar said:
Although necromancy will be offered "sometimes", when you acquire more skills that will not be such an issue.

The offered skills also depend on chosen subclass. So if you become a composite class, you will be offered necromancy less.

Anyways, Necromancy is one of the best skills in the game, so.

And, if you have a hero learn Death Magic from say, Witch Hut, Magic College, etc it will not be "offered regularly".

Isn't it only logical that a NECROMANCER-class hero uses NECROMANCY as a core skill?



Right, so turns out the maps I have been playing lately, a lot  of them have the optional magic skills banned (The Kings tournament maps) so I thought the game just doesnít offer it if you donít take it initially.. Long story short I was confused!  Found out there is no difference in probability between being offered basic or advanced if you start with it like in Ultimate.

The only legitimate complaint I have is with the libraries.  In Ultimate, even if you had no intention of using your optional magic skill, you can still dud at a library and get advanced in it, essentially flushing 2000 gold down the toilet and blowing an opportunity to advance your mana, potency, or core magic skill. This is something that wonít happened normally, obviously because you never take the optional skill to begin with assuming you donít want it.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 15, 2023 06:48 AM

Right, well, you still can consider whether to do the library thing beforehand or not, but anyways it is not flushing as other skills will not be "useless".

And you can still, as I said, use a hero that didn't start with magic to not take "tertiary skill".

A solution for that would be, anyways, a system for forgetting skills.

But anyways, the real problem is already in the "randomness" of upgrades from those map thingys. Even if you don't have Necromancy you don't have a way to choose if core magic, mana skill, or potency skill is upgraded. It seems the difference is marginal.

***

On the other hand, here is some sneak peek into a Duel Map I have been developing (Not yet AI tested);


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sammyboi123
sammyboi123


Hired Hero
posted September 16, 2023 03:23 AM
Edited by sammyboi123 at 03:40, 16 Sep 2023.

NimoStar said:


On the other hand, here is some sneak peek into a Duel Map I have been developing (Not yet AI tested);

[url=https://abload.de/image.php?img=2023-09-1501_43_42-he8deso.png][/url]


Cool!  Making a duel map that's cool.  When it's done I'll duel you on it and we can playtest it.  Using Ultimate rules, of course.

So Nimo, how do you see Ultimate in a competitive setting, on duel maps (The Kings, World Cup, etc)? Just what are your general thoughts?

Here are some of mine:

A lot of the maps ban the optional magic skill like I mentioned, but give you a quest hut where you can pick it up if you do want it, and so that whole interaction is nullified in Ultimate because you always start with the skill anyways.  Maybe you can comment better that me on what this means for competitive play, but those are the facts. In that context though, it makes my original grievance make sense.  

I really like how every creature is better in Ultimate!  This is a great change I feel.  Basically every single creature is better, so it makes the argument of:  

3 heroes & 4 creature stacks  
Vs
4 heroes & 3 creature stacks

Much more up-in-the-air.  In Equilibris, 4 heroes and 3 stacks is overwhelmingly the standard.  But who knows now that basically every creature was buffed.


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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 17, 2023 12:37 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:43, 17 Sep 2023.

Honestly other than somewhat of a pet peeve I don't see any issue. If you have the optional skill so does your opponent. There is no balance problem for competitive play.

I see much harder balance issues with the original game and town/magic balance which "equilibris" mostly left untouched, and I addressed.

For example, in the original game, Order gets the best creatures with 2 casters and a level 4 shooter, they also have the most versatile magic by far, up to 50% extra growth from nobility and extra gold from estates and treasury. The only that can compete is Death due to necromancy/transformer while the rest lag behind. I corroborated this is not subjective impression with numerous AI vs AI different tests, for instance.

In the mod, I compensated this mostly by distributing versatility and utility to other factions, their creatures, hero skills and spell pools.

Challenge maps and the map pool of "The Kings" tournament scene was included with Ultimate for a long time.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 18, 2023 06:54 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 06:59, 18 Sep 2023.

In other news, I have investigated the subjective claims that Mechanical Dragons are "OP" and found the rumors pretty much untrue at least on the current iteration. According to my tests, Mechanical Dragons lose (blue flag) or tie (green flag) against more max-level creatures on weekly growth than they win (red flags). They even lose against cheaper creatures such as Behemoths and Thunderbirds.


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sammyboi123
sammyboi123


Hired Hero
posted September 19, 2023 04:37 AM

NimoStar said:


I see much harder balance issues with the original game and town/magic balance which "equilibris" mostly left untouched, and I addressed.

For example, in the original game, Order gets the best creatures with 2 casters and a level 4 shooter, they also have the most versatile magic by far, up to 50% extra growth from nobility and extra gold from estates and treasury. The only that can compete is Death due to necromancy/transformer while the rest lag behind. I corroborated this is not subjective impression with numerous AI vs AI different tests, for instance.




I question AI vs AI tests a bit.  Reason being, data from the duel map scene I think would be better.  You can mine that data on "The Kings" website.  Are Order and Death winning the most games there? Try balancing off of that.  

I could make an argument for any faction being the best, for instance Nature: The fact that their combined creature movement (assume fast on map mantis from creature portal) is much higher and faster than every other faction, and the fact they can hire thief to quickly get GM pathfinding for 50% more movement, they can get on the map and vacuum up all the treasure faster than anyone else, making them the best.  

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 19, 2023 06:05 AM

Mantis is just 1 per week. Thief doesn't come with Pathfinding and its hard to max due to lack of combat skills.

Anyways, I question human vs human games more because when do you know that there is faction gap and not skill gap. AI may be stupid but at least we know both AIs are just as stupid. On top of that is that these are custom maps. And on top of that as well, that humans can also cheat, as there was allegations from BrennusWhiskey that 2they are all Russian cheaters" (I myself take that with a huge grain of salt).

If anyone wants to help however, more info is never a bad thing per se
http://h4kings.ucoz.pl/index/list_of_games/0-13
http://h4kings.ucoz.pl/news/old_games/1-0-7

- Town Pick ratio (better indicator, which factions are rarely picked)
- Town Win/loss ratio
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