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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2024 12:44 AM |
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Necro specialists
Do you prefer Skes or Skeleton warriors in necro army?
2. Will you convert zombies to skes, then fill up slot with if not 1 Ghost then something recruited?
3. Do you think having a armourer or offense or log main is good even if you are necro? Effectively extra 2x skills but less skes?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted February 22, 2024 06:02 PM |
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Quote:
1. Do you prefer Skes or Skeleton warriors in necro army?
Usually the army will be having the normal skeletons, but I think it's a mistake if you don't go for skele warriors at some point of the game.
Quote:
2. Will you convert zombies to skes, then fill up slot with if not 1 Ghost then something recruited?
Yes, basically as soon as possible. Walking dead are basically the most useless creature in the game, it's a fortune they're in necro so they can serve more purpose. There's a line of the player going for early upgrage for Zombies, which is semi-helpful due being able to match skeleton speed, but it's way more convinient just hoarding the skeletons right from the early game.
Quote:
3. Do you think having a armourer or offense or log main is good even if you are necro? Effectively extra 2x skills but less skes?
Yes, after all you're talking about the best attributes the game. Necro heroes can be used to add extra skeletons anyway.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 22, 2024 06:42 PM |
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Zombies are pretty good as meat. Use them to take retaliation if possible and possibly cause Disease, then make your skels or skele warriors hit hard!
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted February 22, 2024 09:58 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Zombies are pretty good as meat. Use them to take retaliation if possible and possibly cause Disease, then make your skels or skele warriors hit hard!
Indeed sounds like the intended idea behind them. However, I've couple issues with this: first of all, the Zombies are really slow, and if you upgrade skeletons, they will actually outspeed the zombies. Usually this wouldn't be really a problem as you could simply wait, but since we're talking creatures this slow, it feels far less effective than if the creatures would be atleast semi-fast.
Secondly, why not just make skeleton one-stacks? I mean, you can get quite alot of skeletons even without Galthran in the early game, and not that many Zombies. Since the Zombie amount will be so low, they will not knock down even a weaker stack, and will always get retalitated. The one upside of a more simple skeleton snowball would be that you can handle many stacks with just a single blow - no need drain the retalation. And if it's indeed needed, why not just have a single skellie do one for the team?
It's not like the building the zombie upgrade would be expensive or hard to do, but you can only build once per turn, you should get most out of it. It just feel the necro has much more things to build towards in the early game, and if you're not going for the Zombies early, why would you do that during the later stage of the game?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 22, 2024 10:11 PM |
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Like always it depends my dear Hourglass.
It depends on if the map lasts a couple of weeks or several months.
If you do not "have time" to upgrade Walking Dead to Zombies, sure go ahead and take one stacks of skeletons, but if you play longer maps like me, you will get your town fully upgraded at some point and then the worst part of zombies is that they are slow, but not slower than normal skels. AI is stupid enough to just charge forward, so you can usually just wait with zombies and skels and then let zombies take retaliation. Unless your skels hit so hard, they can just one-shot the enemy stack. (In case of Galthran, Isra or Vidomina maybe.)
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 23, 2024 09:41 AM |
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Hourglass said:
Quote:
3. Do you think having a armourer or offense or log main is good even if you are necro? Effectively extra 2x skills but less skes?
Yes, after all you're talking about the best attributes the game. Necro heroes can be used to add extra skeletons anyway.
Ya this sounds like a feasible idea but in my hundreds of MP games I have not seen anyone use it
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted February 23, 2024 05:16 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Like always it depends my dear Hourglass.
It depends on if the map lasts a couple of weeks or several months.
If you do not "have time" to upgrade Walking Dead to Zombies, sure go ahead and take one stacks of skeletons, but if you play longer maps like me, you will get your town fully upgraded at some point and then the worst part of zombies is that they are slow, but not slower than normal skels. AI is stupid enough to just charge forward, so you can usually just wait with zombies and skels and then let zombies take retaliation. Unless your skels hit so hard, they can just one-shot the enemy stack. (In case of Galthran, Isra or Vidomina maybe.)
Well my dear Phoenix ( ),
I was mostly thinking about the early game setup, since that's where I think the most value you could actually get out of Zombies. The early game necro is all about brawling with skeletons, so the Zombies in theory have niche there, to serve as a "bodyguard" for the skeletons. The late game setup is just not for Zombies: You have far more utility at that point, so the simple retal-taking in order to cover up certain creature is just too cute for my taste. I mean, you also mentioned the power of late game necro.
I'm not sure, but I have to say that I feel the Walking dead especially were made mostly for the neutral battles in mind, not so much as a creature to be part of a certain line-up. This is such a simple target for the beginners to tackle: Very slow speed, no chance for morale, and most importantly, good source of exp.
thecastrated said:
Ya this sounds like a feasible idea but in my hundreds of MP games I have not seen anyone use it
Sounds a bit odd. Fighting with other (secondary) heroes is basically the norm these days.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 23, 2024 06:43 PM |
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secondary heroes for sure however a non necro hero as main? There's a difference
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted February 23, 2024 07:23 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Like always it depends my dear Hourglass.
It depends on if the map lasts a couple of weeks or several months.
If you do not "have time" to upgrade Walking Dead to Zombies, sure go ahead and take one stacks of skeletons, but if you play longer maps like me, you will get your town fully upgraded at some point and then the worst part of zombies is that they are slow, but not slower than normal skels. AI is stupid enough to just charge forward, so you can usually just wait with zombies and skels and then let zombies take retaliation. Unless your skels hit so hard, they can just one-shot the enemy stack. (In case of Galthran, Isra or Vidomina maybe.)
Well I can't see many scenarios where I would waste money on the Zombie upgrade. In longer games you'll find better ways to spend your money on even more so. I can see them useful when desperately defending a town against enemy scouts. If the chance for Disease was higher this would make 1 stacks spreading Disease a thing.
When it comes to taking up retals 1-stacks of whatever low level units will result in less losses than using a full stack of Zombies, so what's the deal supposed to be?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted February 23, 2024 07:46 PM |
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@all
Zombies are useful to Necropolis heroes.. When you don't need a Sacrifice..
Behemoths and Hydras are slowing units, you cast a Teleport to Cyclops, for example, and you shut Cyclop's movement.., or better you wait for enemy casts spell, and you cast a Teleport to G. Elves, and strike it..
Zombies are in 4 slot in creature line.. If Behemoths get a Haste, and your Sacrifice Zombie strikes Behemoths..
Remember thinking about Magic Arrow, Destroy Undead, Ice Bolt, etc so one Zombie can be good..
Liches are in 1 slot, you cast a Teleport or using a maneuver, etc Zombie is a defender to protect Liches.. or go to Titan.. If you are slow team, so hire Zombies..
Noob and brain players are playing Zombies with, but neutral doesn't use them.. Because they don't analyzed Zombies as Eagle Eye, Scholar, etc
Later on update facts, but you got a tip..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 23, 2024 08:11 PM |
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I think the main reason people hate Zombies so much, is because they only have speed 4.
As an upgraded unit they are the only unit, along with Dendroids Soldiers, to have such an abysmal speed. Dendroid Soldiers are a lot better than Zombies, no doubt, but I am still not sure if people actually take those along or if Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers are forever doomed to be only town defender units?
(I know Ryland and Straker can take them, but what about other Rampart or Necroheroes?)
In my game I have set minimum adventure speed to that of a speed 5 unit, so Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers can actually come along, without slowing the army down.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted February 23, 2024 08:38 PM |
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thecastrated said:
secondary heroes for sure however a non necro hero as main? There's a difference
Ah, that's what you meant.
That's template spesific thing I would say. In some templates necro starter have more value in them, so playing with it all the way to end is benefictical, or at least that's how player may feel. Personally I feel the top tier heroes (Tazar, Gunnar etc.) are top tier for necro as well. That being said, I feel Death Knight is pretty solid hero class overall, and Necromancer is probably the best magic class in the game. Cannot really blame if players like sticking with them.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 12:07 PM |
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Hourglass said:
I feel Death Knight is pretty solid hero class
??? Ok, they start with an amazing special and have great chances for early Earth but Primary Skill distribution is the same as Battle Mages and worst then Alchemists... It seams to be expected that DK's rely heavily on magic and that is universally considered bad in the long run.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 02:10 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Hourglass said:
I feel Death Knight is pretty solid hero class
??? Ok, they start with an amazing special and have great chances for early Earth but Primary Skill distribution is the same as Battle Mages and worst then Alchemists... It seams to be expected that DK's rely heavily on magic and that is universally considered bad in the long run.
I haven't personally heard people dishing DK's, sure they don't match Overlords, Barbarians, nor Beastmasters. But I was mostly talking about the DK's in the context of necro, and after the obviously better classes, I see no issue with them. The stat distribution could indeed be better, but I think the class can utilize their magic side better than most other towns can. (ways such as Animate dead) When building a Death Knight, I remember them building up nicely, 40% chance of obtaining Earth at level 4 is better than average. Majority of DK's come with good selection of starting skills, all equipped with spell book and a useful spell. Yeah, I think they're pretty solid. 
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 03:26 PM |
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How much death knight to reach wind? Wind better for necro than earth Wind is better since you haste ske and animate is permanent without earth
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 03:26 PM |
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Hourglass said:
... I see no issue with them.
What I really dislike about DK is, they seem to rarely get logistics. UD suffers from slow movement, I really would like a logistics hero with them. Well, it's not like I would pick Pyre over Tamika as a main because of hat  . UD has to have a necromancy hero and DK is the better one.
I'm not too worried about the primary stat distribution. Magic is useful early on and later most of the primary stats come from artifacts anyway. Secondary skill choices are the thing to consider first.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 04:15 PM |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted February 24, 2024 04:51 PM |
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thecastrated said:
How much death knight to reach wind? Wind better for necro than earth Wind is better since you haste ske and animate is permanent without earth
Yea for Thant, because of Mysticism and Animate Dead.. I talked a few times that Air is suitable for Thant.. But if you don't have a Fly and DD, you lose the game, but if you develop TP mastered heroes, you save your game.. So I don't recommend you to play risky.. Much better you develop an Earth first, and then you get a Fly and DD, it after Air mastered Thant.. But HotA rule says two times.. Then the game way is troublesome, thus the same as Armageddon, if you develop Fire heroes are Castle, Tower, etc So you watch Conflux, or town has spells, or Witch Huts, etc where is Air.. But you go to victory, if luck gives you Air, Fly and DD, and then Earth and TP.. Easiest both, but it takes one skill out.. The same thing that you can't get a decent skill.. First I play to check* the Witch Hut, etc And then I take it.. HotA is more fast tempo, thus rejects skill.. Maybe you think about it.. A good trip to MP..
*Scouts were very dirty, but terrorists.. Today many main heroes..
EDIT
AIR+EARTH vs AIR+WATER..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2024 11:48 PM |
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You lose the game just because no fly and dd? And you know you can artificial town portal
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