| When does AI actually pick Wisdom? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2024 09:02 PM |
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Just a simple example. A map has water but no Ships/Shipyards. Navigation will have its value, while it should not. The game estimates are quite simple, probably we would loose every game if Heroes AI was like his chess collegue. We want to be winners. Nobody wants to play a game he cannot beat, nobody wants to be outsmarted by AI, still we want a challenge  See how only few people share their experience with Factory campaign. Because it's really hard. It requires knowledge of every aspect of the game. A dream? No, people want to be winners as always and tend to overestimate their skills
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 22, 2024 09:06 PM |
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Yeah I know it's pretty complicated.
I would'nt use scripts, I would just go to map editor, open my map and give might heroes and Necromancers the additional Wisdom skill.
But giving might heroes Wisdom and magic heroes something else, is probably not very balanced, so your idea with improving the chance of AI picking Wisdom is probably better.
The perfect AI should prioritize Wisdom, Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense and Armorer and possibly Air Magic, but if all AI heroes were to get that, it would probably be a very different and very difficult game...
Yeah in my island map AI seems to pick Navigation pretty often, it's okay for early game, but when you have Fly, DD and WW you don't really need it and TP does'nt work on water either.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 22, 2024 09:12 PM |
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No.. I gave to Andra AI.. A ill-looking, but AIs beat the Andra AI.. Lesser primary skills and troops enough.. A map was RoE..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2024 09:14 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 21:17, 22 Mar 2024.
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Now priorities are dynamic. But we - humans - know which skills are best for AI from our experience. I think, such values as 1, 2, 3, and so on for skills would be better alternative to the system we have right now. If you re-read my post about secondary skills estimates, you will see, that partly that's already provided. I would just stick with top skills from our (humans) perspective for AI. There are many threads about which skills are better. Ideally, we should teach AI to pick top-6 skills we pick every game, if possible. That will be better than what we have now.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 22, 2024 09:19 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Ideally, we should teach AI to pick top-6 skills we pick every game, if possible. That will be better than what it is now.
Yes, the question is if that would turn the game into "Dark Souls of Might and Magic".
Maybe we will all start playing on the lowest difficulty then. 
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 22, 2024 09:41 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Ideally, we should teach AI to pick top-6 skills we pick every game, if possible. That will be better than what we have now.
From what I've experienced, AI prioritizes movement well enough even if may fall into traps like the one you mention, so the solution could be just give Earth and Wisdom the two top priorities.
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Barbuta
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 25, 2024 02:11 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Ideally, we should teach AI to pick top-6 skills we pick every game, if possible. That will be better than what we have now.
My two cents - That would make every game similar to each other and having it like it is now brings variety to the game. Instead of forcing the AI to pick the skill we deem the best as players, a better approach to a stronger AI would be an unfair boost of resources/armies that the AI gets when playing on the 2 hardest difficulties.
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Author of The Barbutilion Part 1 - War of the 7 Realms and The Barbutilion Part 2 - Leon's Redemption and The Barbutilion Part 3 - To be announced soon 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 26, 2024 04:25 PM |
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I tested Alex's Wisdom hack today. (Wisdom x 64)
And I just wanted to say that it seems like this actually makes the game really hard
Most of AI's heroes crossed islands very easily, tried to attack my towns constantly and also managed to assemble huge armies. 
I think this might in fact be a little too hard, I think I might just use the first Wisdom hack Alex provided. (Wisdom x 1 or maybe Wisdom x 8 or something, instead of the normal 1/2 multiplier.)
(It could also have something to do with the fact that there is now a Warehouse of Gold near every starting town, but I don't think that makes such a huge difference.)
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 28, 2024 05:26 AM |
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So, you're always complaining about how flawed the AI is, now you found an hack that works and you quit using it cause you think it's too hard?
I have no words.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 28, 2024 07:51 AM |
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Take it easy mate.
It's about balance. 
Playing a super difficult game, is not always fun, it just means things drag on and take a long time. I suppose I could have won, if I felt like it, but I did'nt at that point.
Of course it's not fun, if the game is too easy either.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 28, 2024 08:17 AM |
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HUMAN AI MOD! DIFFICULTY MOD!
What is your true level? Your 20 years were wasted! An example of hot chili sauce changed into sweet ice cream..
But thanks for honest friend..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 30, 2026 09:28 PM |
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Hi Alex or perhaps someone else clever?
Does anyone know if AI magic heroes will always pick Wisdom, if they don't start with it? Or is there a chance they will end up without Wisdom?
For the default game, this only applies to Necromancers, (-Aislinn) but heroes could have other starting skills in specific cases.
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BigPig2
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2026 11:24 AM |
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I rolled 8x lvl 24 necromancers some 30-50 times on pure SoD. All 8 got Wisdom every single time, usually around 2nd to 4th skill slot, sometimes 5th. 6th or 7th maybe literally once or twice. Not a proof but it suggests they do get it quite reliably.
Based on my earlier testing this is largely due to the Wisdom-offered-every-3rd-level procedure, Wisdom rates dropped dramatically when I disabled it in might heroes (they did get it around 80-90% of the time before).
I dont know how likely map playthrough events (huts, unis, etc) are to prevent it but I also dont recall ever recruiting an ex-ai magic hero without wisdom, altho that is a total of 7 heroes so.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 31, 2026 04:10 PM |
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Quote:
Does anyone know if AI magic heroes will always pick Wisdom, if they don't start with it? Or is there a chance they will end up without Wisdom?
There is a chance they will end up without Wisdom. The fewer spells AI hero knows, and the weaker they are, the greater chance he will skip Wisdom. That's how Xsi ended up on a map without spells -
Necromancy 3
Learning 3
Ballistics 3
Offense 3
Water Magic 3
Pathfinding 3
Diplomacy 3
Logistics 3
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 31, 2026 05:37 PM |
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Okay, that's what I feared.
Then Necro is actually kinda bad for AI, as Necro only have 1 hero that is guaranteed to get Wisdom...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 01, 2026 01:47 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
There is a chance they will end up without Wisdom.
From what I understand this is terrible for heroes that are buffed from start, like level 30 prison heroes. The chance for a might hero without a spellbook to learn it seems almost null.
I wonder why this hasn't been addressed by the same HotA crew that screwed Slow and Logistics...
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BigPig2
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 01, 2026 02:47 PM |
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As mentioned above, I have done some tests on might heroes awhile back, Knights, Alchemists and Rangers I think it was, on a custom map where they all started the game at lvl 20+. Some 80%+ did have Wisdom, typically around 4-6th slot it I remember correctly. This changed dramatically (to around 30% or less I think) when i disabled the forced Wisdom/school of magic roll every n levels. This makes sense as they will take Wisdom/school every time the new skill rolled is not in their top 6/5/4.. wishlist out of the remaining 26/25/24 unlearned skills. I have not analysed it too carefully but I dont think the roll probabilities coincide with the outcomes of the skill value functions which decide what the ai heroes actually "want" in any way either.
One thing I am curious about is how the AI handles cases of skills scoring identical values, especially seeing as multiple skills share value functions with others.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted September 01, 2026 03:51 PM |
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Hey Alex
Do you have a list of the spells AI values?
Does AI pick Wisdom based of their known spell with the highest AI value or is it a total from all of their spells?
If we take Thant as an example, he knows Animate Dead, which is a powerful level 3 spell. Is he likely to pick Wisdom because he knows Animate Dead? Or what if Solmyr or Xyron started without Wisdom for example?
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BigPig2
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 01, 2026 07:43 PM |
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Actually, if your sole aim is to make sure the magic heroes always take Wisdom, you could probably just short-circuit the lvl 3/6/etc function and make AI always grab it when offered.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted September 01, 2026 08:00 PM |
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Yeah that is a possibility, but I have had quite a lot of thoughts regarding Wisdom and magic schools recently.
I'll try to explain:
You see I am currently running with a 10 skill per hero limit. This is great as it means every hero can learn 2 more skills.
The downside however is you will be slower to get Expert in all those skills and Wisdom and the magic schools are of course extra important on Expert, especially if you for example specialise in a mass spell.
So my first idea was spell specialists gets relevant magic school instead of Wisdom. As I now know that creates the possibility that AI will end up without Wisdom. (Not good.)
My second idea was ALL heroes get an additional skill, for spell specialists it would be their relevant magic school, for heroes like Ciele and Luna it could be Sorcery, Torosar Artillery, others Wisdom etc.
The problem with this is how do I decide which hero gets which skills and it seems rather unbalanced, since they all get different skills.
But what do I do then, if I feel 10 skills is minimum, but I also want to be able to get Expert Wisdom and magic schools before level 28...
I guess I could lower number of skills to 9, but it just seems to few to me. (Using Torosar as an example, he would actually need to get 11 skills, to have "an optimal build"!)
I guess a third option would be to have a 9 skill limit, but remove some heroes starting skills, to have room for more wanted skills, but this also seems kinda wrong and unbalanced, so I am not sure what I want to do now...
But making AI magic heroes always grab Wisdom would be great, if anyone knows how?
I feel like (at least) AI magic heroes should always get Wisdom, AI might heroes ideally should too, but from a thematical viewpoint I can understand why they might not always get Wisdom.
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