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| Thread: Is Pathfinding a must-have skill in HotA 1.7.2? | |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 16, 2025 07:03 PM |
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Poll Question:
Is Pathfinding a must-have skill in HotA 1.7.2?
I might as well continue these polls for a while, with all the new skill changes in HotA.
Does Pathfinding feel like a must-have skill to you now?
For those not sure exactly what the skill does now, check the terrain penalties, in the box, here: https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Pathfinding
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 16, 2025 08:04 PM |
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Movement points are among the best resources the player can have, so when the skill somehow allows you to have more of such thing, it's always worth considering.
The Pathfinding upgrade is probably the best overall skill change made in the last patch. Personally, I think it's overall somewhere around lower A-tier skill, which translates into higher priority pick, the thing you would normally want to see among the 8 skills you have. Generally speaking, I would think the players would choose between Logistics and Pathfinding, not just having both of them. However, this is something we will see in the future as the meta shapens up. Pathfinding is probably the best among the more older style maps. Nowadays all maps have roads, making the Logistics more appealing choice.
For secondary heroes, the skill was already useful in the past, but now it's really among the skills you want to see on them.
So, to properly answer the question; no, it's not a must-have, but it's something that could at least be argued being among "the 8 skills", aka the perfect build, something it never was before.
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Brevan
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 16, 2025 08:22 PM |
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Edited by Brevan at 20:29, 16 Jan 2025.
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TL;DR: The changes to Pathfinding are great for sure, but are more impressive on paper than in practice.
I figure there are 4 skills related to movement (I don't play water maps, so don't count Navigation): Pathfinding, Logistics, Earth Magic (Town Portal), and Air Magic (Dimension Door, Fly).
In the late-game, I'm always just looking for the last enemy heroes, warping to a nearby town, and then warping on top of the enemy, and then warping to some town to end the turn and regain my mana. Pathfinding doesn't seem to help with any of that, but since the spells cost movement points, Logistics can help a bit (it's usually redundant). I don't mind only having Logistics with Pathfinding nowadays -- I can always Dimension Door once to get past a severe obstacle, but you can certainly cover good chunk of the map each turn with both skills.
In the early-game, Pathfinding feels tied with Logistics since half of terrains don't have a movement penalty, and if they did then my creatures probably make me immune to it (it's probably my home terrain). Even when it's an enemy terrain, there's probably a road leading to their castle, so once I've taken it I'll just hire a hero to explore the enemy area (probably no creatures left so no army needed) and walk around with enemy troops (so it's native terrain for the new Hire, so minor Pathfinding bonus).
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted January 16, 2025 09:58 PM |
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Pathfinding becomes less desirable to pick the later you are in the game. Not only due to Fly/Dimension Door/Town Portal you might have got hold of but also due to the fact you will have cleared most off the off-road areas by the time. So in relative terms you'll benefit the most in the early stages of a game.
(This goes for random maps, in general it depends on the abundance of roads in the map).
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 16, 2025 11:40 PM |
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I think now Pathfinding and Logistics are pretty ballanced between them.. so, great!
But I think the most powerful change was done on First Aid.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted January 17, 2025 12:01 PM |
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Great! Now there will be less discussion about the Wayfarer Boots...
But to make 28 skills valuable and maintain the eight skills limit must have it's merits but makes the game way more complex.
For me, I'm sticking to the same set of skills, that already included both Logistics & Pathfinding, but I don't know what to give to enemies. How would a Gem with a Crystal Dragon perform, for instance?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 07, 2025 01:12 PM |
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One thing I just noticed is how the new Pathfinding makes the raising artifacts even more OP. Their major handicap was the gigantic penalty of having to move at low speed creatures movement while now you'll only lose 15% with Expert Path.
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Eamar
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 07, 2025 01:38 PM |
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How does Pathfinding influence the penalty of low speed-creatures? Something I miss.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 07, 2025 06:51 PM |
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Or maybe I didn't understood what it really does... I thought at Expert you would move with no penalty and 85% of 2000. After a more careful reading, it's probably not it.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 07, 2025 06:59 PM |
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Check the info box here Bloodsucker: https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Pathfinding
It applies when you wander off-road, so unless the map has roads everywhere, it should be a very useful skill.
I think Lexiav put it nicely in S-tier, it's very comparable to Logistics and I would always go for it. (But I also play with 11 skills per hero currently.  )
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 07, 2025 07:05 PM |
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I checked, that's what I called a careful reading. Can you explain it to 6 years old?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 07, 2025 08:17 PM |
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It is complicated. It's quite hard to understand and even harder to explain, so I probably could'nt explain to a 6-year old. I could let them look at the info box, but they probably would'nt understand that either.
Pathfinding was already a bit complicated, with all the different terrain types. The old Pathfinding was just ruined by a lot of things and I did'nt like the skill very much, it's much better now however, but also even more complicated.
I guess what you really need to know, is that it will save you up to 15% movement points off road, at all terrains except swamp.
I don't know if people are aware, but Expert Pathfinding, will also make Fly and Water Walk, be cast like they were Expert Air or Water Magic, cutting down the need for Air and Water Magic a bit.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted February 07, 2025 08:19 PM |
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I don't know.. I don't understand..
But script in WoG, you can make only 4 terrain movement on the rough, when you give 300 value.. Larger value gives more terrain movement.. Why they make a skill, no terrain penalty.. Maybe hero with Pathfinding skill gives more terrain movement same as Logistics.. So they think no change terrain movement value..
H4? Pathfinding gives better movement without manual i.e. you choose movement.. And you can see how much does terrain movement cost.. H3 is an easy game, because automaton..
Yes they still develop Scouting (i.e. inc. Logistics, Navigation and Pathfinding) matter..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted February 07, 2025 09:33 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
I checked, that's what I called a careful reading. Can you explain it to 6 years old?
Movement is based on two things:
1. Movement points, which are gained at the start of the day and cannot be decreased except by moving.
2. Terrain penalty, which is the number of movement points moving from a certain tile will cost you.
Your movement points are determined by the lowest-speed creature in your army at the start of the day. The lower the speed, the less points you start the day with. However, adding slower creatures to your army after the day has started has no penalty.
Pathfinding does not give you any extra movement points, moving will just cost less of what you do have. For example, let's say that one step on Grass costs 50 points. Therefore, stepping on Rough will cost 62.5 points, but with Basic Pathfinding, stepping on Rough costs 50 and with Expert it costs only 42.5. Slow creatures still reduce your total points, but you'll spend less points when you move.
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted February 08, 2025 09:30 AM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
Movement is based on two things (...)
Sometimes. 6 years old explanations, are all you need.. crystal clear.
It has no case, for us players, to know all equations and the background of a mechanic. We have to play "by eye", and knowing the overall rules is enough.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2025 10:56 AM |
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Ok, I've known for decades what SoD Pathfinding does. It removes the terrain penalty for your army. If you have Expert Pathfinding is like you are always moving on Dirt or Grass.
What I don't understand is what changed with the HotA update. Some say it's now amazing cause of the alterations, others describe the same exact thing it always did. I had understood a level of Pathfinding would remove a percentage of what is taken from the 2000 initial movement points (without any creatures), so you would start with speed 5 creatures but since you had basic Pathfinding you would start with initial movement like if you only had speed 7 creatures (calculations not right) but I guess it isn't it.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted February 08, 2025 04:47 PM |
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Hota pathfinding simply makes the following changes:
sand/snow: exp: 85
rough/waste: adv: 90 exp: 85
else (-swamp): bas: 95 adv: 90 exp: 85
whereas previously a non-penalty tile requires 100
As you can see, the effect is identical to 17.6% logistics (=100/85), excluding swamp.
Here's my better idea:
all-native creature army enjoys 95/90/85 movepoints bonus
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted February 08, 2025 06:36 PM |
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So, if I understand correctly, a hero with expert pathfinding will spend less movement points on any terrain except swamp than a hero without pathfinding would spend on grass or dirt? So unless you're on a road, it has a similar effect to logistics.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2025 08:45 PM |
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@purerogue3 Thank you. It is clear to me now.
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