Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: Beowulf come and save me!!!
Thread: Beowulf come and save me!!! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted May 19, 2001 01:15 AM

Sure Jinxer.

Send me the details when ready.

You and I are both obviously passionate people so that could be beneficial.

Peace, Mocara

____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Flamingo
Flamingo


Adventuring Hero
Old one
posted May 20, 2001 07:49 PM

:))

crazy discussion at the beginning, but i wrote this reply before i read last posts...

people playing maps that they like, if you like FireWar Campaign, Beltway or Peloponesia play it, if you like DW, BFP, BFH play it... its up to you...

why are you crazy about it? if people playing only few maps it is their problems. you will be surprised when will hear how some great/good russian players are playing...i saw AlexKiller, Vex, AIR, Trimurti, Kanting, Vazelin, FCSP games... sometimes its terrible to see...for my oppinion even Jareky(who knows him? ) ) playing better... this players mostly playing few maps and making on all maps "train metal"(dont know how to say metal piece of metal on which trains going... )... in ToH most players trying to play quick games, for quicker receiving points, or losing its nothing wrong here ,but its changing game a little.

2 years ago games lasts 1-2 weeks and i played about 4-6 games per day, but all changing. we played that time original maps and some maps that was rebuilded from homm2. but on this maps there were no such things like utopis, library and many other things that characterised homm3 only.
and there was "rehire strategy" that changed heroes a little )

for my own oppinion the best map that was made for homm3 is DW, on this map there are many things that appeared only in homm3. its closed and opened in one time. there are way to win on week 1, win on week 6, win on second week after breaking 2 utopias, way of long development,  with good heroes 20th lvl, and others... great tactical map. it was made 1,5 years ago and was played in different ways. i think that i saw all variants of playing... i dont know any other map that was played so different. of course , first week is mostly the same, but from week 2 game starts... )

i like beltway very much too, one of 3 my favourite maps. you can kill player on week 1 day 3, and can play it few weeks without meeting opponent.

but about FireWar Campaign i really disagree...its very complex map after first look, but after playing it few times you can understand that this map is only 1 way to win, "first day advantage" ... you coming on day 1 week 2 and killing opponent with much greater army... its stuff. no way to play for blue...

2 Salamander: about Peloponesia...its single-player map, not for multiplayer. Teg made great job,  but what for? for whom? for himself and few old players-friends...


so, coming back to our theme...heroes changing every day. but you dont like changies that are happening(i dont like it too, but i understand what happening and not crying... ), dont try to be with masses, you are another man. you have only 3 ways:just accept changies, become one in masses; you can try to find players with same preferencies as you or stop playing at all...

about Oracle: i suggested Beo how to save Oracle, how make it more popular, but he didnt want to hear my arguments, Oracle works good for that time, but time pass...Oracle in history, and it will be better to do not open it in homm3 at all...

with best regards, ex-... Flamingo

p.s. dont be offended on me, russians that i mentioned

p.p.s. dont want to talk with me about any new league, dont want my tips or support?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted May 21, 2001 08:22 AM

Flamingo you have great points but I disagree a little bit.

1) There are many players who desire an Oracle style league even though most have just given up and quit the game.

Look around. Where is Jarcik? TRoPPo? Shura? Dragonheart? RedCloud? Arrow? LBytes? etc etc.

Most of the Oracle players are gone and many expressed to me their distaste with the current state of the game.

You yourself say you don't like it. Even Vesuvius says the maps are not as creative as used to be.

I too quit as did these great players thinking there was no hope but this brings me to the second point I disagree on and why I wish these players would not have given up hope.

The style of play held in Oracle is not dead just suppressed. Since my initial post here I have received about 70 letters asking if Oracle would be reopened in it's old format and I think it will be now.

When it is you and others will see that the open ultra in your face style of play Oracle was known for is a nice caveat to ToH style and some may like it a lot.

My point is that times have changed largely because this style of play was not represented at all.

When a new player comes in he sees that HG and DW are the maps to learn and that is fine. Never was I saying anything was wrong with this style. Only that people never really seen the other style mainly because of the reason you mentioned, about people wanting to get easy points.

If you truly want easy points you must pick a map where there is little chance left for variables and then play it against people who know the map less than you do.

This formula has worked for people intent on climbing ladders every since Destiny in heroes2.

But Beltway in heroes3 there is no way to kill week1 because

1) Throng of fire elementals blocks the pathways to each others towns and

2) Heroes3 enhancements of citadel and castle which mean you must need to have shooters and flyers where as in heroes2 the turrets were of little or no concern.

I do not feel like it is crying to say there is more to heroes then what we see.

I believe there is a 4th option besides quitting, conforming or settling. And the 4th option is reviving a style for those of us who are still interested in it.

I do not think I will ever see a day when players prefer grandiose maps like 7 lakes over memorized moves because it is inherent to any ladder that people seek to climb it as fast as possible and will gravitate torwards whichever maps will help them do this.

If you remember "good to go" was the most popular map before Vesuvius outlawed it. A classic example of people wanting points so much they would rather have a win then have a good game.

In heroes2 Destiny and Beltway were popular rush maps. But a lot of players also liked Teleporters and 7Lakes.

Your point about Beltway was excellent about how you could die day3 or you could not see each other for 2 weeks. This has to do with the caliber of player you are playing against.

I used to rush newbies on Beltway all day but when playing against greats like Frank, Prometheus, TRoPPo, etc we both knew all the rush tactics and how to defend them so we had to play a different style.

I think Oracle will be back soon. I've heard a lot of rumors about it and I've had about 70 players say they cannot wait for it so there is a little tiny group of players that feel as you and I do Flamingo.

And I hope you will be there playing when it does come back as even though you have had your problems there is no doubt you are one of the best players ever to play the game.

Now if you will excuse me I have to get back to my game of Hourglass vs ZX9. =)

-Mocara


____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 21, 2001 01:14 PM

Fire war was updates long time ago. There is no more option for red rush day 8. Peloponesia is up to 7 human playes, so there....what you talking about, Flamingo?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maxym
Maxym


Known Hero
posted June 01, 2001 12:26 AM

I have no idea what Oracle league was and how it worked but from what i hear i will join it  Just don't aske me to edit anything, i am a comnplete luddite when it comes to the editor, i can open it and look at maps, but i needed  to ask my opponents or captain if i needed to edit them for clan or div campaigns

Moc before Oracle rises from the ashes again i am sure a lot can be done to restore the innovative and adventurous maps. Convince people to give them a try, some might like them. Get everyone who liked them to convince someone else and soon enough it will not be hard to play 7lakes or firewar or beltway anytime you come on the Zone.

I think the time is right for that. Many people who cared about points have made it to COL rank and you can't go higher then that on points alone. I am sure they won't mid losing few points to learn a great map and have a good time.

I know i didn't. I asked 3lion if i had a chance to win against him never seeing 7 lakes before. He said sure, open the editor and have a look for few min, and I will tell you the key points, but the main task is just staying alive

As far as to 7lakes having a formula it might be true. But it will not work with any high degree of success on that map. I have played Frank in my 4th game on 7 lakes and beat him (with great difficulty and much joy), so i guess his way is not the ultimate way. He took all the island mines and red dragons at the time he wanted and held them for the entire game. I am afraid the way i play it might be a winning formula. I hope it is not, but even so it is highly dependent on the comp and therefore very risky. And if it works for one color it might work for all of them or at least color pairs, wich brings us back to a balanced map.

I hope we will see more innovative maps played in TOH. And you don't have to play those boring maps. I have only 100+ games and i have played DW only 2-3 times last season, decided i don't like it and never played it again. I have avoided many other maps accusded hereof being onedimensional like BM, or HG. I have played them few times only to realize i don't like them much. But yes there is a price to pay for it, you have to be prepared to wait for a while until someone willing to play a different map comes along. But hey we are all good, fair players i am sure we can find some opponents

BTW I can't wait to have my revengeon you Sal for my disastrous loss on SD, preferably on 7 lakes, hehe

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted June 01, 2001 07:05 AM

no excuses please

Jarcik:  Too busy and bored with heroes to play
TRoPPo:  Moved on, no more computer games
Shura:   Never cared for heroes3
Dragonheart:  Did he even play homm3?
Redcloud:  Out of sight of the heroes community way before heroes3 came out.
Lbytes:  Too busy to play homm, even if interested.

Lets not make excuses for players coming and going.  Like Mocara and hundereds of others, veteran players leave, and come back, and the addiction urge of heroes brings them in again.  Some are busy, some get a life, some are into another game eg. everquest, diablo etc. and so on.

The time for oracle is up, unless there is a serious person who would run the thing without quitting (even though running it would be no more than 15 minutes of ones' time).  However, I doubt the thing would last 6 months, not because it wouldnt have a following, but that with the exception of Deth8, I have not seen anyone who would last 6 months in really supporting a site and keeping it running without quitting excuses.

Want to play 'refreshing maps' or with some rule?  Then run a subtourney with your parameters.  We have enough players with new ones coming in at an accellerated rate.

I can guarantee you that there will be dozens of new heroes4 tourneys that will pop up soon enough.  Watch them disappear in 1-6 months.

Enough discussion and more action please.  Anyone going to take the plunge?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted June 01, 2001 11:37 AM

Turncoat

Man you get on top and you forget where you came from.

Kudos to you for keeping this going but insulting Oracle shows you have forgotten your roots.

By leagues disapearing do you mean at the end of the tourney like Oracle did or do you mean MID tourney like your league did in heroes2?

-Mocara
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted June 01, 2001 01:17 PM

The thing is..

That the ToH is where people are playing HOMM3. That means that the ToH is what people like best from the online HOMM3 organizations.

The ToH has rules and regulations, it has maps, it has leaders, it has Kind Veterans, and it has Abusive Veterans, it has Good and it has Bad. The ToH has it all, and youīre free to pick what you want. Itīs like a supermarket: If youīre a vegetarian, donīt buy meat. If youīre allergic to apples, donīt buy them. Do what you want with what you can find, and if itīs not there.. try to make it yourself.

If you want something better than ToH the best thing to do is to create it and let people know about it. If it truly is better then people will join you. If itīs not, at least you have tried.

I want ToH, and Iīm happy with ToH. I donīt like to play people who only play the maps they know by heart and have planned every move 2343 times (trapmappers as I call them), because I donīt have the time or patiance to plan moves on a map for hours and then just making the moves when I play. I donīt think thatīs fun.

The ToH is alot about Trapmapping, but you donīt have to do it. I myself only play random maps, because nobody knows them, they are all new, you get to discover them and make up your strategy as you go along. That is enough for me, and that is what I want from the ToH.

Of course I would like everyone to think like me, and I would LOVE to insult all those "veterans" who are GREAT at playing HG2 or some other map thats safe to play and doesnt require exploring, but I wonīt. Besides, what could I tell them that would be worse than actually doing what they do? Their actions are punishment enough for them =)

ehm..

Itīs interesting to see how a post breaks down in the end. When all the arguments have been written all that remains is the deeper meaning..   itīs very revealing.

LOL Iīm so funny =)   I bet at least 3% of you all would agree on that. And if youīre one of the 97% who think Im not, please keep it to yourself, at least for the time being =)

Gl and hf, and no cheat or me no play you

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zedrin
zedrin


Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
posted June 01, 2001 01:50 PM

'Tis but a game

In the end, it is only a game... all of this is only a game. Once someone trully realizes that, the meaning of all this dissappears.

Oracle here Toh there... they are all games. Granted they were, are and will be addictive, but they are just games.  When you turn the lights out and go to sleep, does playing this game make you sleep better?

Congratulations to anyone having the time, interest and patience to create and run a tourney. They have all the things i lack... If one player is happy with the tourney, it does not matter what the rest think... if they exist...

As tourneys grow though, the links between players weaken. Veterans prefer playing veterans, while newbees need all the help they can get. People quit tourneys either because their life allows them not to play anymore(for objective or subjective reasons), or simply because the "quality" of the new players isn't satisfactory.

Almost all forget that they were at one point plebes/peasants/dwebes...

It is natural that some quit and thus drag others with them.
____________
"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted June 01, 2001 04:23 PM

Quote:
In the end, it is only a game... all of this is only a game. Once someone trully realizes that, the meaning of all this dissappears.

Oracle here Toh there... they are all games. Granted they were, are and will be addictive, but they are just games.  When you turn the lights out and go to sleep, does playing this game make you sleep better?




Funny, I never could understand why people cheat "its only a game" was my thinking. but to some I guess its more.

    But the point I wanted to make was, It never makes me sleep better, after a particularly exciting match even tho its past 2 am and I have to be at work at 7, I still have that excited nervous energy and cant sleep.
____________
Winner or Whiner?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted June 02, 2001 05:18 AM

yo

Mocara, start learning not to fly off the wheel.  Turncoat?  Well let me express it all then.  I joined something called the coliseum early in heroes2, that was where my roots were.  When coliseum died, I joined oracle.  Oracle was good for its time, but it could not support such a large influx of players if it was created now as a standalone tourney.

VHC at its peak was growing bigger than oracle, it had the similar addictive TOH format; however it was supported by someone else on their server, I had no webmaster skills.  When that person disappeared along with a frozen server, I could not continue it.

Like Ive told some of my volunteers, there is a group of 'elitists' in the homm community, namely some of the older oracle members, who think they are the god judgement of what is best in the community.  These 'untouchables' are actually 'untouchable' -- Ive told deth8 to stay clear of any honor decisions that may ever apply to these few.  

Your view gets twisted whenever I say something mocara, when I say a 'disappearing' tournament obviously I do not imply the TIMELESS oracle!  No, more like instead of you and sal and the other untouchables talking away about it, to actually do something about it and running another oracle.  My point there then implied that it would be a good thing if it lasted more than 6 months.

If oracle would be created now, it would be similar to the bastards tourney, a group of people via invitation, who share similar interests on how a game should be played.

And finally mocara:  To this day I have no clue how you feel about me; ever since that fateful email a year ago, whatever you say on the surface even today cannot really tell me the truth of what you really think about me and TOH.  Your last post hinted at some of it, barely oozing out.  My honest words are simple; until that email a year ago I respected you like a brother in the community, but now I only see you as another member, impartial to you but regarding you as an elitist untouchable.
Read all these words carefully and understand the underlying meaning of it all before you rush to answer.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted June 02, 2001 09:09 AM

How I feel about you Rob =)

Let me tell you exactly how I feel about you Rob.

When I was running the Isle I looked to you for advice because there is noone whos opinion I respected more.

When VHC was open I played in it nonstop and dissed all the other leagues who tried to copy you.

When you told me you would open ToH I closed Isle so I could play in ToH because I knew it would be the best league ever.

Everyday I play and report, not in Tymeria or AW or h3 trio etc but in ToH.

That is how much I respect you.

I speak my mind HERE and get flamed for it HERE because I care about this league because YOU run it.

If I don't like something I will state it HERE and keep playing HERE because I care.

I am still loyal to Oracle because they have helped me so much and if they opened again I would play there and hope my games would still count in ToH like in the old days.

But I would not quit ToH unless like last time I quit heroes.

I follow only great leaders and I have followed you for a long time and probably always will.

I do tend to be extreme in my words sometimes but then again you must reallize that I am partly tongue in cheek and trying to get people to talk here.

That is my role here and I like playing it.

I will always be here to check you on things you say but don't think I am against you.

I love all your work here and despite my criticisms it is all because I love it and want it to improve.

Even the best can improve.

-Mocara
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zedrin
zedrin


Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
posted June 02, 2001 10:04 PM

*chuckle*
____________
"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted June 03, 2001 03:43 AM

MONEhmocara

Speaking of which, I am working with two professional programming firms to set up automation for homm4 professionally.  This means $1000's of dollars to start and at least $400 month salaries to maintain the server and its automation.  So you want dedication in homm4 TOH's future its a true bet there is.

Frankly, I wouldnt and couldnt be able to support TOH if the traffic increased tenfold, and this is needed to bring in the next evolution of TOH with homm4.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted June 30, 2001 01:22 AM

Thx Beo

How Beowolf managed his Oracle tournament is still mystery to me.  Back then we would be matchedup against someone of our rating on a map we would know only a few days before playing our game.  Back then we didn`t questionned about the fairness of this and that.  We just played.  Some games I knew I didn`t stand much chance to win and curiously those were the games I enjoyed most.   Trying to make it as hard as possible for my opponent was my duty.  I remember everyone participating the same way I did.  I`ve never exactly recaptured that feeling in toh.  Maybe too large a league.  I don`t know.   Oracle under Beo had some magics.

Thanks to Beo, Mocara, Tamanrasset, Endor, Vesuvius, Hoher, Jarcik, Salamandre, J'Esradi, Vong, Prometheus, Zook and to all those whom I`ve regretably forgotten the nicknames.

- Frank

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0758 seconds