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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Sorry but Newbie Topic:
Thread: Sorry but Newbie Topic: [ This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 (4) 5 ]
Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted November 08, 2009 08:31 AM
Edited by Casihasi at 08:32, 08 Nov 2009.

Well Sal has a good point.
In Toh, all tactics except building a strong main hero, as many troops + stats + spells as possible and going for the key points on the map like topias or relics, have been almost ruled out by the closed map design where xxx L7 guard the way to the enemy.

It is similiar with random map templates with the heavy guard design like blockbuster. But if you have an open map that is not cluttered with resources, or where you can meet your opponent early, that was where good players usually began to shine.
Simply because they had a feeling for how to equip scouts (what troops and spells) to block the enemy from a) scouting the map and b) getting the stuff in the middle areas.

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Fank0
Fank0


Known Hero
There are no limits
posted November 08, 2009 08:46 AM

Hmmm, i have to admit i do not know what "open maps" are. I once created a game on Roadrunner template because in its descriptions it was said it has open design. What i saw was roads and passages with no guards between zones. Is that what an open map is ? The same as a normal map but with no blocks on roads ?


If so, yeah, it opens some possibilities, but would hardly change gameplay much. A strong might hero will still be better option to play with. And i cannot imagine you have resources for 20 scouts + army + build. Most you can hope for is Malekith with lightning bolt in dungeon town and nice power/knowledge boosters. Not that common and still beatable if you pull it off.
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And you believed that?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 08, 2009 08:58 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 09:03, 08 Nov 2009.

An open map would be Beltway, the most played map during 8 years, both HoMM2 and 3. Only 20 fire elementals guarded a 2 days road between players. The concept of "main" hero did not exist there. 60% of games it ended day 5-6, 20% week 2 and some times it could go much longer if both players were early exhausted. Or seven lakes, large map. Very hard to level there, shortcuts everywhere.

I know there are some open templates but never tried them so I can't judge. They are not very popular I read.
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Lumske_Beaver
Lumske_Beaver


Adventuring Hero
posted November 08, 2009 09:33 AM

Quote:
The only way to win with economics at all is diplomacy. But to be able to get some joiners, you need to have a little strength in your army too, so you need creatures.


Shortly you can express the advantage by going for creatures like this: If you succes going for creatures by gathering enough gold, this strategy will always be the best for the reason that you have more troops than and have discovered the map before a person who build money buildings. Then the outcome'll be indubitably.

Even though I'm not good at this strategy compared to others this is definitely the most efficient way of playing in almost every map, I have tried.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 09, 2009 04:20 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 04:25, 09 Nov 2009.

The concept of large army is time exponential. If the game runs for weeks, having good magic hitters is useless. You don't need fliers/speed if the other is still on his first week trying to survive with his 40 centaurs and 15 elves. If you catch him with a good lightning he will not survive long. To answer Fauch question about having tens of scouts: if you fail to remove the shroud everywhere, opponent can see you and catch your main without warning.

Today scouts are used to collect treasures and chain units so your main optimize his first week. In the past they were used also for choke points battles, and often it was a simple scout who defeated the other main, simply because he was there at the right time. Today the magic damage is underrated because armies and stats are too huge and leveling is done easily if not disturbed early. I know it has no sense to speak about how was in the past, but I think it is wrong to tell to new players "only this you must do" because the whole game layout changed for a small MP community. More options you have, more you enjoy.
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted November 09, 2009 06:11 AM

It all was changed because of hit and run.
If people wouldn't have done stuff like attack with 1 AA and implo the opponents 5 Behemoths, we might still have real homm games.
There was never skill involved in certain tactics, but some people were too greedy for wins and showed no common sense in what a fun game is.

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TmacV
TmacV


Hired Hero
posted November 09, 2009 12:00 PM

Quote:
It all was changed because of hit and run.
If people wouldn't have done stuff like attack with 1 AA and implo the opponents 5 Behemoths, we might still have real homm games.
There was never skill involved in certain tactics, but some people were too greedy for wins and showed no common sense in what a fun game is.


That is your opinion and should be stated as such.  To say a certain style ruined the game and finally it is more fun now is an opinion, but you state it like a mantra.  The fact is many people don't like how some games are played on Jebus (for example) because it is cookie cutter taking the 'fun' out of it, even though you say it is the only fun way to play.

There is more I could say about your post, but not now

Let's not start a rule argument here but rather to each his own
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 09, 2009 02:39 PM

Hit and run is not a bad thing. It has many counters, it is just a tactic like many others. It is not sufficient to give a win, still you need to know how to do it at the right time.
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted November 09, 2009 03:23 PM

It has exactly 1 reliable counter: shackles.
Everything else leads to long and boring waiting games, and thatīs why people didnīt like it. H3 was a long enough game witout it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 09, 2009 03:28 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 06:24, 10 Nov 2009.

Again a subjective opinion. Why nobody complained about it during 6 years, Isle league, Oracle league, toh league. And suddenly, when millions of newcomers join and lose to it, the majority starts to cry to cheap tactic. Come one, good scouting is keeping you safe from hit and run. Can't be done if you see it coming. Death ripple is a very effective counter too.
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Clay_Man
Clay_Man


Known Hero
TOH gamer
posted November 09, 2009 03:55 PM

@Salamandre:

Is this the right version of beltway?

Thx in advance

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 09, 2009 03:57 PM

Yes, made by me starting from the original H2 one.
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koelle
koelle


Adventuring Hero
posted November 10, 2009 06:14 AM

hi everybody,


does anyone have, and more important, is willing to share some save games (maybe of the first few days of a game) so that people like i can see what people in this thread mean?




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koelle

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted November 10, 2009 07:25 AM

at WCL in The Great Hall and Best games
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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koelle
koelle


Adventuring Hero
posted November 10, 2009 09:24 AM

great. thanks
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koelle

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Fiji
Fiji

Tavern Dweller
posted December 03, 2009 04:37 AM

Main Hero on a spell points diet?

Hello all,

I picked up a (German) copy of HOMM3 last week and have been playing it (way to late in the evening) ever since

Now, last night (or early this morning, if you will) I ran into a bit of a wtf.

I was playing a solo game on a large map (don't recall which one) and my main hero was just clearing out some wandering stacks (is that the correct term? those creatures blocking your way on the main screen ...)  when I suddenly noticed I hadn't the spell points to cast (erm ... blenden in German) Blind, I think.
Oddness, my main hero has 90 spellpoints, I chalked it up to having used him too often in recent days.

But then, My hero was needed on the other side of my territory to get rid of an invader. It took me 4 days to get there and when I started the battle ... I still had only 4 spell points.

So, is this a bug? Or is there some event, artifact, spell, whatever that stops my hero from regaining spellpoints?
oh, and I have an artifact equiped that's supposed to give me +2 spell points per day.

oh, and while I'm asking anyway ... Is there any way to make sure you get that one spell you want. Or do you just have to keep building Mage guilds all over the place and hope it will pop up?


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Uruk-Hai
Uruk-Hai


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2009 06:07 AM

Maybe you where using quick combat on those wandering creatures? If so, then your hero will use spells.
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Fiji
Fiji

Tavern Dweller
posted December 03, 2009 06:44 AM
Edited by Fiji at 06:50, 03 Dec 2009.

nope, regular manual combat.

oh, and visiting a well DID refill the spell points

Spell points should be regained on a daily basis, right?
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted December 03, 2009 08:10 AM

Regain is 1 point per day (except you have "mysticism" as a secondary skill)

If you fight vs Wraiths (upgraded little dark flying Ghosts from necropolis), they (each stack of them) will substract 2 of your mana points each round when it is their turn.
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Fiji
Fiji

Tavern Dweller
posted December 03, 2009 09:24 AM

aye, that's how I understood it worked.

Haven't faced any wraiths (I do use them myself, but haven't fought any) and yet there you have it, on day X I had 4 spellpoints, I travel on the main map for 4 day, using no adventure spells and in my next battle on day X+4, I still only have 4 spellpoints.

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