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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Testing the Pit Lord effect on Familiars. Bringing back the underrated Inferno
Thread: Testing the Pit Lord effect on Familiars. Bringing back the underrated Inferno This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted May 22, 2001 06:36 PM bonus applied.

Testing the Pit Lord effect on Familiars. Bringing back the underrated Inferno

Hi, I read about inferno and how people think its weak since its got low hitpoints and a weak 7th level unit, so I did some testing to find out the secret of inferno.

The secret of Inferno is: Pit Lords are a Demon transformer, that turns any creatures hitpoints into demon hitpoints if you do it right.

The advantage is: You can take creatures that you wouldnt usually use in your main army ("snow troops"), slay them ("snow them") in a battle, and bring them back as demons. This also goes for gogs and imps as they have lower attack and defence than demons and their hitpoints serve you better as hitpoints.

So is this good? YES it is. Imagine you play HG2 (boring), and you are sad because you started with inferno and got one rampart and one necropolis. So what? You build them anyway, buy all the troops, "snow" them in battle and bring them back as demons. Suddenly you are producing one normal inferno production per week + 2 times around 1800 hitpoints in demons per week. Thats about 100 extra demons per week, 3600 extra hitpoints per week. So when thant comes with 1200 skels in week 6 (7200 hps) you stand there with (if you built all castles from week 4) 3*100=300 extra demons (10 500 extra hitpoints at speed 5 with higher attack defence). This also goes for any builders map with extra castles. So what if you got a necro castle.. you got a portable Demon transformer.

The limitations for this are: You cant ressurect more than 1,428 demons per fight per pitlord doing the resurrection. I did tests on this with a saturated amount of familiars (2000-25000) and varying amounts of pilords, and the ratio turned out to be 1,428

So in conclusion: In the right maps (builders maps) Inferno is by FAR the strongest caslte if you possess the skills and information to use your pit lords to their full potential, combined with the efreet +armageddon attack.


Defending the underrated Inferno,
Bjorn190

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Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted May 22, 2001 06:56 PM

I always thought it funny that many think inferno is weak

I have always liked inferno, running around with efreet and devils week 2 always nice, good speed and good killing power, the deamon trick is an extra advantage, but if you play multiplayer HG2, the game (If you know what your doing) rarely lasts past week 5 (usually week 3-4 is it) and its tough to spare the day to upgrade those pit lords for a while for me at least.
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Winner or Whiner?

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DVZ
DVZ


Known Hero
posted May 22, 2001 08:37 PM

I like playing Inferno but never bother with demon collecting

Not to mention like just how you will do it anyway, it will be super tedious.

Inferno's great for early game thanks to the Efreet tho in the end game it may fall short due to lack of good shooters.


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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted May 22, 2001 09:56 PM

Yes its tedious, but can be done.

And that is why Inferno is powerful, yet underrated. It takes the skills and knowledge and patiance to make it work. Efreet rush is good in the start, and Demon UBERarmy is good in the endgame. That will make Inferno, played by the right player, the best Town overall.

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted May 23, 2001 11:57 AM

Alittle update

I did some more testing and it turns out there are some more limitations. You cant ressurect more than the number of creatures who died, or undead, or elements, or golems and gargs probably. But you cant ressurect one familiar to one demon, it is hitpoint based there, at least with the latest version of the game (wich I have). My guess is that in turning necromancy hitpoint based they did the same with demon ressurecting, only they forgot to take away the limit of "maximum creatures ressed = creatures dead" , or maybe it was a balance issue. Or maybe it has been done to prevent you from upgrading the demons, ressing the horned ones to more demons than died, upgrading them again.. and so on.

I still think its good even though you cant use units with too high hitpoints/cost for demons. I donīt know if this is good or bad.. maybe those high hitpoint dwellings are too expensive anyway, as cash limits the demon hoarding somewhat.

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2001 01:50 PM

I wouldn`t sacrifice gogs into demons, as their upgrade magogs are quite useful. And it is hard to sacrifice a proper stack in battle (except imps familiars but sometimes even those will be hard to incarnate into demons) as it has to be then fully dead (if one is left and enemy flees your efforts have been wasted).

Also when battling AGAINST Inferno and you have no change to win, make sure that you will ONLY reduce not kill most important stacks, so enemy won`t have change to incarnate demons from anything. If you utterly destroy stack it should be Pit Lords then, or flee before enemy has change to raise them demons OR stack should be quite small (so pit Lords would bring in only few demons.
Of course if there is only a few Pit Lords in battle it won`t matter what stacks you kill.


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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted May 23, 2001 03:02 PM

I never upgrade gogs

Because the magogs are only useful the first round of battle. After that your stacks should be adjecant to the enemies stacks and the area damage of your magogs will hurt your stacks too.

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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted August 18, 2001 06:46 AM

You are also limited by the amount of pit lords you have.
1 pit lord can resurect 1 demon

9 imps -> 1 pit lord -> 1 raised demon
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>

"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."

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Viper
Viper


Known Hero
Lord of Black Magic
posted August 18, 2001 06:01 PM
Edited By: Viper on 18 Aug 2001

Maybe convertion imps to demons sounds nice but its not so nice on practice. I never saw hero with big amount of rised demons.

I think Inforno isnt weakest (Gods, Ifrits, Devils). On the other hand its very expensive and when playing on Impossible skill oponents will crash you before you build Devils. I'm playing for Necropolis and i never had big problems with Inferno (Devils are much stronger then Bone/Ghost Dragons).
____________
You always can stop process if you know it's real name. (Kerrigan)

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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted August 20, 2001 09:07 AM

Devils are not stronger than ghost dragons, they have same hit points and cannot do same amount of damage.  They may have higher a and d but if the ghost dragon's special kicks in the opponant looses half it's hit points.  Also Ghost dragons are easier to build and vastly cheaper to buy.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>

"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."

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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted August 20, 2001 11:54 AM

Good thread bjorn ;)

This one is not about how good the inferno is in comparison to other cities (the old story) but how the inferno is ĻunderratedĻ LOL

I do not underrate the inferno, there is not a town that is inferior to the other. I myself find it most FUN to play Castle, but i donīt think they are the strongest. The best Homm players can play with ANY castle. Each castle has very good specialities. If you can use them to ur advantage and know how to use them best, you will see there is no town superior over the other.

Although i must admit some maps require a certain town to be succesfulll, on most maps you should do ok with any town.
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important

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Titan_888
Titan_888


Known Hero
Wind of Change
posted August 20, 2001 12:49 PM

Underrated inferno

Pit lords is actually amazing strong and effective creature. I remember looong time ago... 2 years maybe.. i started playin in "Montys" tourney and was setup for my first game.
We both got inferno and we played a map(dont remember name) that gave opportunity of diplo skill level.
What me and my friend didnt notice was that 2 groups of lots of Sultans in middle beside a castle was set as friendly (didnt check map quiet good enough) ... they all joined him...

My opponent withdrawed from middle ground cause of some better things back, arts. etc. Now what happened was that I had diplomacy on 3 heroes. i went to middle with most of them, took the castle and settled new base.
Now everything started to rock

by that time i think i had 40 pit lords...
i splitted them on 2 heroes with diplomacy and started fighting all possible creatures.

After 1-2 weeks i had gathered 600 horned deamons and 400 ceberies hehe

But i need 1 more thing before i could finish my path.. i needed implosion. But damn ( i checked all guilds and no implosion... then wandering in middle with main hero.. i was scouting for a miracle...

PUUF... There it was ... right in front of me... It has stood there all the time... heroes riding pass not taken it.
A SIMPLE SCHOLAR   (i checked map afterwards and that scholar was on random) lol

What a amazing finish.. a game ended after 5-7 hours struggling, ups and downs, and i could finally retrieve with victory.

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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted August 20, 2001 01:00 PM

So.... whatīs ur point?

LOOOOL just messing with ya titan I see you got lots o demons. I didnīt even know they stayed if you ress them
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important

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Titan_888
Titan_888


Known Hero
Wind of Change
posted August 20, 2001 01:06 PM

lol cheesus.. well actually my point where to tell about the pitlords... instead i ended up by giving a resume of a game i played some years ago. I have never seen a implosion in a scholar since that... have you?


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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted August 20, 2001 01:14 PM

nope

I havenīt seen it before. I found dim door in a spell scroll once though
____________
Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2001 02:57 PM

Random Scholars...

These things really give some good spells occasionally. I have had my game saved more than once. I hit all Scholars if I can once my hero has all skills full, or with a scout if I don't think my main hero will get tehre tin time just to rob enemy of the chance. I've gotten, prayer, t-portal, chain lightening, armegeddon, and blind(just when I needed it) from scholars. If they are set to random it's the chance to get any spell, and I swear the larger the map is the better spells you will get. Every time I play large or x-large and find spell scholars, they give me really good spells. I don't know if that is actually true that larger map sizes give a chances of higher leel spells, but it seems that way to me.

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CraigHack
CraigHack


Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
posted August 20, 2001 08:58 PM

Demon collecting

I like to collect Demons in single player games but I just dont seem to have time for it in Tournament play. Too many other priorities I guess. Once in a while I get a group of Pit lords to join me early in the game and then! Yes! Good times

I am playing a tourney game now where we were both assigned the Fortress on a HUGH map with underground. Well I abandoned the stupid Fortress, I found a neutral Inferno and started building it up.... Now I have 3 Infernos, all 3 will be building devils in the 3rd week, and I can see another one! And guess what? My main hero found a Scroll with the Armageddon spell! Warlock spellcaster with good power and all the Efreet Sultans I could use!!! This is gonna be fun Think about it. Castle gates in all of them. Inferno can be one of the most fun and powerful towns you can play under the right conditions and if you can find lots of gold and Mercury.

I hope my opponent doesnt read this!

Also, Ichon is right as usual, Scholars have won a lot of games for me. You can get any spell from them. Wait till your main has expert Wisdom before visiting them is my rule.

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allu
allu


Known Hero
the supreme heroe
posted June 25, 2003 01:31 AM

u can have some use in familiars but maggogs are so pointless ur killing allmost have of ur own army but non of enemys army and they have mre hitpoints
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted June 25, 2003 04:50 AM

It depends on what you need I would advise finding the thread Called Demon Farming I believe & listen to what Wiggy Wam says since he is the best demonic player I knew.
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Dreaming of a Better World

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notmytohhandle
notmytohhandle


Known Hero
posted June 25, 2003 07:56 AM

U cant raise demons from necro creatures! (resurected not animated demons). mage guild lvl 2 and upg lvl 5 to even start hoarding, thats quite a set back in build days not to mention gold / resources, and sometimes u cant afford it. sometimes u dont have any imps left since the gogs wont fight peasents without casulties. in order to start demon hoarding u need lots of cash to buy all this fodder to sacriface.

So if the map is a closed rich map with a 2nd town thats not necro .. sure u can have 100 demons week 3 without diplo but if its a poor random map, chances are u will not have the gold to take advantage of the hoarding early in game. and most games are determined early!.

its not great its not bad its like most towns. One thing thats trully great about inferno tho. IT ROCKS TO PLAY! takes skill to raise those demons and u can break any block earlier than any town if u use the lords right.

/Archie

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