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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Starting on some H4 wishes
Thread: Starting on some H4 wishes This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted March 22, 2001 09:14 AM

Starting on some H4 wishes

valera from Age of Heroes  
Starting on some H4 wishes  Posted 4-29-2000 21:08  

I'm sure everyone will agree about more monsters, bigger combat field and more spells. I think the combat field should not only be bigger, but feature a more complex enviroment that really affects the combat: some constructions, some lifted areas that give bonuses, some places where only flyers can reach, some obstacles that cannot be shot through, say a mushroom ring somewhere on the field that does not let the spells happen inside it. Battle terrain can consists of several types of terrain at once, and not only do they give bonuses to natives, but swamp for example should slow non-fortress creatures down (if there will be a fortress). As for creatures, they need a lot more specials that can also be related to those special things on the battlefield, ex: double defence in the woods. The levels would be a good idea - as I've said places only reachable to flying creatures, as well as some climbing possible, ex: wood efves can climb a tree, while behemoth cannot, but he can break the tree in half. Trees could have certain hit points. There sometimes could be a neutral monster on the battlefield that is not a part of either side, it was just resting there, and will attack whom he will be annoyed at first. Creatures could have stats of resistance to each magic separately.... That should do for now. What do you think?
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
posted April 09, 2001 12:43 PM

Heroes

What really irks me in Heroes, especially with the creature swapping is the fact that a Hero MUST have at least one creature in order to exist. I think that idea stinks! Why don't we have heroes that can move around the map solitary, without one single skeleton or pikeman... And when battle comes, well then you could have a graphic of the hero him/herself atop a horse. That way, heroes could have definite uses for attack/defence/speed on the battlefield and they could also have hitpoints too... Gives a whole new meaning to the subject of 'scout'...

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Mystery
Mystery


Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
posted April 09, 2001 07:24 PM

Nah...

I think Valeriy's ideas are too complex except of the resistance idea (go to the "A new primary skill" topic), and also obstacles should be more interactive or at least more animated for decoration (if a dragon is toasting a unit near a tree, the tree should burn), and Shae's idea is great.
____________
D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!

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kuraizen
kuraizen


Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
posted April 10, 2001 09:49 AM

about the hero thing

the reson why its like that with the hero army, is because in midevil times,which the game is originaly based on, the hero would represent the general, or even sometimes the king, and they had no battle value what so ever, besided the ability to lead, and direct the troops, their job wasn't to fight, their job was to know tactics,
____________

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Arcane
Arcane

Tavern Dweller
posted April 10, 2001 05:24 PM

The hero without an army could be unnecessary but an army without a hero is a really different idea. This would allow easy scouting and with addition of movement points to units could give the game some very interesting new strategies.
____________
The Lonely wizard

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raZor_X
raZor_X


Promising
Known Hero
The mysterious Warlock
posted April 10, 2001 06:28 PM

The idea that Shae_Trielle mentioned will be used in heroes4 accordind to the first picture we have seen. Heroes will have hit points, and in this means only one thing, heroes can fight. I like Valeriy's ideas, these are not complex and very easy to implement.
I like the one with the resting creature, neutral one, this is realistic, isn't it Mystery....

raZor_X

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Mystery
Mystery


Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
posted April 10, 2001 07:39 PM

What was that, Razor_X, a taunt maybe? BEWARE!

The resting creature could work so I am neutral about this, but there should be no army with no hero thing but there should be hero with no army (heroes can and should fight, don't u think that gelu is holding a bow to use it, or sir gallant is wearing armor for nothing, or heroes are named heroes for nothing).
____________
D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!

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Mystery
Mystery


Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
posted April 10, 2001 07:46 PM

Greetings!

Greetings, RaZoR_X! 3 more posts and u will be a known hero like me!!!
____________
D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!

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pluvious
pluvious


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted April 10, 2001 08:55 PM

Fighting Heroes

Every other fantasy strategy game I have played (lords of magic, age of wonders, etc) where the hero could fight always comes down to one strategy in battle.  Kill the hero first!

If homm4 is going to allow heroes to fight they better have thought of some unbelievable ingenious idea to make tactical warfare plausable.
____________
...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-

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Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
posted April 12, 2001 03:14 PM

The idea of having a hero who can fight in battle alongside his troops is a rather negative one. Pluvious is right, the priority would always be the hero first. Let us say that in the case of an entire army being wiped out, the Hero themselves should be given the option of admitting defeat or taking up a position of 'last man standing' sort of thing. That way the enemy MUST go through your entire army first before the possibility of reaching you...

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Mr_Shane
Mr_Shane


Adventuring Hero
posted April 12, 2001 03:49 PM

what about this? a group with more than one heroes, and various troops travelling around in groups.

I remember playing a game, can't remember the name but it had the name magic. Very similar to heroes, in fact my friends and i are still looking for this game because we felt it was so much better than heroes and I think it still is.

Maybe someone will know the name of this computer game so here is the description.
The aim is to cast a certain spell or defeat all other heroes. each player starts with a pregenerated mage, and there were five types of magic: blue,black,green,red,white which we used to cast spells or summon creatures.  There were also various types of towns, humans, halflings, berserkers, lizard men among others which we could build up. To gain mana, we needed the spell magic spirit/guardian spirit to take nodes. In addition when the player achived a certain number of fame points, he was offered the chance to hire a hero and later more powerful heroes known as demi-gods. (Anyone know the title of this game?)

Maybe heroes 4 could be something like the above game where armies consist of a mixture of troops and several heroes. In addition to primary and secondary skills the heroes could be resistant or semi-resistant to either hand-to hand damage or damage inflicted by schools of magic. The bad news is this, if the hero dies he is gone forever. The good news is with the addition of the above resistances , more strategy is involved in that we do not have to confine ourselves to just focusing on one hero but concentrate our efforts on several heroes at the same time.

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CGChewie
CGChewie


Hired Hero
Master of the Obvious
posted April 12, 2001 04:36 PM

I like most of the ideas...

I think that if the hero was in combat, he should have insane hp(like 1000 or something...) or immuntiy to archery and magic until his troops fail. That would be a good idea. Or maybe having two or three heroes travel together? All three would be in combat with all there troops be have less movement.
____________
And I'm spent!
~CGChewie

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Rage
Rage


Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
posted April 12, 2001 09:31 PM

Hey Mr Shane... Sounds like Lords of Magic to me.
The thing i didn't like a bout this game was that in battles it was realtime.
Still, didn't sem that bad.
____________
L8r

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pluvious
pluvious


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted April 12, 2001 10:23 PM

I think I know the game

I believe that was Masters of Magic.  Great game, although slightly limited.  The spell system and mana ideas were great, plus building outposts for towns and having them generate into big cities was very cool.

A little bit on the limited side in graphics on combat, but very playable.  Probably my second or third all-time favorite game along with heroes, warlords, and age of wonders.
____________
...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-

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pluvious
pluvious


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted April 12, 2001 10:26 PM

heroes

Oh, but in masters of magic you could still go after and kill the heroes, even if there was 5 or 6 of them in your army out of 8 units.

If homm4 is about heroes fighting (which I admit I am intrigued by) they will eitehr have to lesson the importance of heroes (uh oh, whole entirely completely different game folks!), or find a way for them not to be killed in combat.  Maybe them not dying until you break through the army is a start...but only a start...
____________
...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-

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Mr_Shane
Mr_Shane


Adventuring Hero
posted April 13, 2001 03:12 AM

ah yes pluvious that was it

masters of magic. agreed some of those heroes were useless, but a few were nearly invincible. Remember that hero which could only be summoned by a white spell caster? he was nearly invulnerable to all hand to hand damage.Anyway i would not go round with 5 or 6 heroes in a group, but with 2 or 3 heroes while the rest were normal town generated troops to defend the hero against enemy attacks (much like the way we protect our archers)

Any way back to the topic, agreed we really need to find a way for heroes not to be killed in combat.

some suggestions we have:
1. make heroes specialities "resistant or semi-resistant to hand to hand damage, or schools of magic"

2. defeat the entire army to be able to get at the hero.

3. Make heroes have incredibly high hit points as they increase in level.

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kuraizen
kuraizen


Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
posted April 13, 2001 09:16 AM

welll...

how about this, you see there are two types of heroes, above and beyond "heretic" and "deathknight" i will name them by two (hopefully) recognizable names,
    -Longshanks
         leads troops, is strong and wears the armor / sword, but wouldn't go into combat for his life, he is there to provide moral and leadership to his troops,

    -Willium Walace
         leads the troops at the front of the charge, and will hopefully leave the battle field alive, he provides another man on the field, and can't do any stragety after the battle starts, that ISN'T agreed upon befor the battle,

so my suggestion is have a button, weather you are a "in" or "out" of battle hero, if your hero is "in" battle mode, than he will be on the field to do more than cast spells, he will be a valid target, have a set number of hitpoints that isn't going to be too great, say 10 hps / level for might heroes, 5 hps / level for magic heroes, after level 10 its 30 for might heroes and 15 for magic heroes, their damage should be level * 2 - level * 3,
if the hero dies, your troops go into auto combat untill the last round, if you still win, the remaining troops become either a wild bunch of monsters that are NOT inclined to join your hero, or they disburse,
NOW, as a hero ON the battle field, you gain another bonus, your heroes specialty comes into play more vividly here, at least for magic heroes, say he has a specialty in a spell, once per battle he can cast that spell free, if some one has a specialty in a creature with side bonuses (such as dread knights double damage) he will gain the side bonus after he is above the level needed for his specialty to take effect, for weaker creatures, this bonus is pretty worthless, but did we ever use those heroes anyway? ( i mean beyond checking the mills every week
also, as a hero on the battle field, you get one spell, plus your attack with the hero,
magic heroes would attack with a energy ball obviously,
might heroes would attack with either a bow, in which they would have magic hero hps, or with a weapon, likely similer to what creature they specialize in
for heroes with out a battle relavant specialty say resource production, we are going to be smart and keep them set on "out" battle mode
a hero shouldn't be able to move in front of the troops, so we don't end up with hero bouts, and they still have to have at least one creature with them, because they are leading an army, not just wandering slayers of thousands,

____________

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kuraizen
kuraizen


Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
posted April 13, 2001 09:21 AM

oh yeah... ooops

dont' forget about hte attack defence skills, how are they going to be worked out? since the adverage creature has an attack of 10-20 before the hero bonus, the hero can't be a super creature at level one, and can't be a weakling at level 15,
perhaps the def and attack skills should be doubled for them during combat?... and have some artifacts give larger bonuses to the hero or troops?...
____________

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Mystery
Mystery


Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
posted April 13, 2001 12:14 PM

Hero fighting.

I think this hero fighting thing is making a big mess and I think it shouldn't be in H4, and about the health and damage stats that u have seen in the screenshot maybe represent a bonus which will be given to creaures, or maybe there will be an option before a battle starts whether to make a regular battle or a duel between the heroes.
____________
D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!

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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2001 03:11 PM

Whoa...

I don't know Mystery. I like the idea of heroes fighting. Other wise except for casting spells they are useless. And of course they are wariors. I think they SHOULD fight.

Sir Dunco

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