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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: here we go again might or magic?
Thread: here we go again might or magic?
aces170
aces170


Hired Hero
posted November 13, 2002 06:24 AM

here we go again might or magic?

i would say magic, a monk combined with order units are either squashed badly or they annhilate the enemy, the barbarians are the weakest of the lot
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted November 13, 2002 06:55 AM

In single player I'd say magic all the way.  However, in multiplayer heroes 4, speed is an important factor to consider.  Will you have those precious master or grandmaster spells when you're about to face the enemy?  Most probably not, and in that case melee only heroes have the edge over spellcasters.  I'd rather face other level 12 spellcasting heroes in an opponent army than a level 12 barbarian or ranger.  Master melee and archery are atleast within their reach, which, combined with some potions, can make them a force to be reckoned with.

Even in the long run those melee heroes are dangerous.  With GM magic resistance, some nice artifacts and an immortality potion, they are way harder to kill than equal level spellcasters and deal massive amounts of damage.  Given the fact that they can also start learning basic spells when they get the opportunity it is never wise to underestimate them.  GM combat (and GM on all subskills) with a little bit of life magic for example enables a hero to take out entire armies alone, something a pure spellcaster without support is having difficulties with.

My personal choice for a main hero is combat combined with some magical skill.  I adore order and death magic, but lately I'm beginning to realize that life magic and nature (not the summoning, blech!, but dragon strength, snake strike, speed, wasp swarm, ...) are also extremely potent.  I almost never take chaos since I rather have my hero deal melee/ranged damage and using spells for making him/her stronger or last longer.  But more heroes 4 multiplayer experience will tell if this tactic of mine works.

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Double-T
Double-T

Tavern Dweller
posted November 13, 2002 04:08 PM

I`d say it depends on the map size. And it also depends that how many castles from the same allingment do u have.For instance if u have got 3 mights and 3 orders, i`d definetly take 3 mights because of breeding pens, and if there is 1 order and 1 might the decicion would still b the same, so might is actually very good. By the way order isn`t a good castle anyway and might is still quite good. Might isn`t my favourite town but I think its good, and preserve is my favourite town.
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Magus_Rex
Magus_Rex


Hired Hero
posted November 13, 2002 05:28 PM

I would say might, a preserve town and a strong archer with a general will kill pretty much anything.  A lot could be and should be said about combat skills.  With good tactics your whole army because so much stronger.  I will not diss magic it is very strong and needed but as a bak up and support of an army and combat heroes.

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aces170
aces170


Hired Hero
posted November 13, 2002 10:52 PM

might??? wow i dunno, but witout any magic those guys are just waiting to be ripped off... the cyclops are turned pretty useless with the forgetfullness speell, only prob are the thunderbirds
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Daikon
Daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted November 13, 2002 11:59 PM

I am afraid I have to disagree with you guys. Might still needs something more to compete with the other towns. I will not repeat myself here because me and Wub already have posted many things about might and might x order in another thread, so I sugest, if you want to know more about this, you to see this posts:

http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=5104&pagenumber=4

Of course, I am open to opinions, so I would like you all to take a look in what was discussed and say what you think about it. See ya.

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Agent00BLeRD
Agent00BLeRD


Adventuring Hero
posted November 14, 2002 04:54 AM

The "relative" value of the might hero increases at the start of the game when your hero is quite useful. Later on, the massive number of creatures determines more the outcome of combat.

Now, with a might army, sure the hero may be GM Magic resistance, but the creatures are still not immune to spells. That becomes quite a pain since order has some pretty damn useful spells: displacement or teleport to bring those rangers into line of sight and then forgetfulness, add to that the mass slow and it's quite a pain to reach the other end. Mass blur can reduce the might hero's effectiveness with ranged attacks. Might will definitely have more creatures due to breeding pens but the might heroes will be lacking the magic skills that the order heroes will have. Also, if the order heroes invest in nobility, they can get some bonus as well.

So with clever use of spells, the might hero might be the only one left alive because of his magic resistance. And you know that even a high level hero goes down against an entire army. It basically depends on who gets the first turn. And with a few mercenary camps or tactics, its usually the heroes. The might hero will only be able to attack or cast a low level spell while a mass slow will be all an order hero will need.

Of course, there are counter tactics to this. Care to share them?
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UncleJR
UncleJR


Adventuring Hero
posted November 14, 2002 10:40 AM

Might v Magic

Well, a tactic I use, predominantly, is targeting the opponent's hero first out.  Take him out, and I don't care how much magic he has, how magic resistant he is, or anything.  Once the hero is on his back, then all his advantages vanish.

As for magic, given a stack of genies to clone those might creatures, and next thing you know, you have a stack of whatevers (behemoths, thunderbirds, or what have you) on your side.  (Or you're facing them if you're the might side).

Knock out the magician and now you don't have to worry about his nasty little implsions, or any of the other fun things.  (Of course, there are still some inherantly magic creatures out there.  See previous paragraph for example).

In the end, as has been noted previously, I think it depends on your playing style, and the circumstances you find yourself in.  

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aces170
aces170


Hired Hero
posted November 14, 2002 12:07 PM

what about the diffrent classes in a single town, like which is better a mage or a lord?
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EvilLoynis
EvilLoynis


Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
posted November 14, 2002 11:38 PM

Migh Vs Magic

  I hate to say it but I think Might wins most times.  That is unless you can get to them early then magic wins I think.  The only two times i have lost so far was against  a might hero.  Even when i had GM Order magic.


  ---You Only Truly Lose When You Stop Trying---

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ipslore
ipslore

Tavern Dweller
posted February 15, 2010 10:48 AM

I would definitely say magic. Lots of magic and lots of ranged creatures, and one really strong melee creature.

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted February 15, 2010 07:33 PM

Well, it's not simply might or magic, since there are different skills.

The combat skill is definitely the most important. Beyond that, though, the magic ones are better, except for pathfinding.
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Ritcha
Ritcha


Hired Hero
posted February 21, 2010 10:51 AM

I really hate to play barbarian, because the berserkers go berserk and can't be controlled, the centaurs are weak, unless they make it up close, the ogre magic is too slow, because he is so vulnerable, and behemonths are just waaaay too slow. The cyclops grow relatively slowly and have relativle weak attacks (unless they are in a castle) the thunderbirs are weak (though I love their attack)... So actually, the only creatures with true value are harpies and nomads, relatively (when thinking about their level 2 status).

Whereas order, I love playing them. Mages are weak and have to be behind everyone to survive (and therefore exceptionally weak again cyclops), but they have the poison, which is grand for sieges. Their attack is ok,  but sometimes I do chose golems instead, though seldom, since they barely never make it to the battle.

I always chose genies, strong attack and the excellent "Create Illusion" can make you win fierce battles without loosing a single target! And then, in the end, a strong melee creature, the dragon golem. A bit too big makes it have problem maneuvring, but their attack is just excellent and some illusion of them and you have a strong melee force going. Unless I took the golems, then I take titans instead and then the mass presicion spell come to live on both halflings and titans.

So, I will always chose order from might, when it is the castles. But when it is heroes... I usually chose one of each. One developing combat and maybe tactics, pathfinding or nobility (depending on the map and what the game lets me chose). And then a magic hero, with combat skills too - so he or she won't be killed too often. If I play a campaign, I have lately learned that the combat skills are probably the most valuable to have, since a hero with grandmaster combat skills and with a lot of powerups (and maybe an immortality potion or two - or, sometimes, 10 ) can win the whole campaign alone. Whereas, one with magic skills can't survive even the "small" battles, except if he has some strong protective spells -take Bohb the archmage for example, you have to "fight" to make him survive the last GS campaign (those dreaded garguntains!).

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jswissman
jswissman


Hired Hero
err...um...roar (or whatever)
posted February 21, 2010 09:01 PM

Well you can certainly build a high level Ranger with 100% magic resistance and plenty of immortality potions that will single-handedly wreak havoc. However, the Might units are really weak in comparison to the other towns. In the end though magic wins simply because what fun would you have if you didn't try all the different combinations of magic with other skills? It's Might AND Magic . . . the important part in 4 is having fun trying all the variations. Just had fun building a low-level Barbarian into a mid-level Ranger into a high-level Fireguard.

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted February 21, 2010 11:22 PM

How are might units weak? Centaurs are the strongest lvl 1 unit, and Cyclopses are the best lvl 3 shooter.

Berkersers are awesome because they do so much damage. You just need to let them out at the right moment - rather than having them wander off and get killed.
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Ritcha
Ritcha


Hired Hero
posted February 22, 2010 03:44 AM

Quote:
How are might units weak? Centaurs are the strongest lvl 1 unit, and Cyclopses are the best lvl 3 shooter.

Berkersers are awesome because they do so much damage. You just need to let them out at the right moment - rather than having them wander off and get killed.


Hmmm, them cyclops just never seem to be strong, when I play barbarian... I might just not be able to use them right. And for the centaurs, their ranged ability suck - maybe it would help if I stopped using it

And well, I do try to block those berserkers, but that just seems to be impossible, they allways find a way out and get's themself killed.

I might just be playing might too seldom, dunno. But that is my impression of them.

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jswissman
jswissman


Hired Hero
err...um...roar (or whatever)
posted February 22, 2010 03:53 PM

Quote:
How are might units weak? Centaurs are the strongest lvl 1 unit, and Cyclopses are the best lvl 3 shooter.

Berkersers are awesome because they do so much damage. You just need to let them out at the right moment - rather than having them wander off and get killed.


I must admit that I too perhaps have been playing them wrong. But I don't like the centaurs because they're such weak shooters. I do like the cyclops but I usually play large or xtra-large maps and I really don't like the behemoths so I'm stuck with the T-birds which I don't like much either. Maybe it seems that with might it takes me longer to get going too. I dunno. Is there a scenario you would recommend so I could become better acquainted with using the Might faction? I usually play Order, Chaos or Life. I think it's just a preference on my part, but I like using Might heroes in conjunction with other factions but not the might creatures.

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted February 22, 2010 06:37 PM

Centaurs do have a really weak ranged attack. But their melee is pretty good. As for berserkers, you just need to put them in the cage (i.e. put them in the middle of the square formation with all 7 units filled so they can't move). Later on, it's impractical to keep berserkers alive, of course. But early on, you can do a lot with them.  

If you want to get acquainted with might, I suppose you can try the might campaigns on higher difficulties.
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