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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: heros 3 and heros 4..... which is better?
Thread: heros 3 and heros 4..... which is better? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
soccerfeva
soccerfeva


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted November 16, 2002 07:12 PM
Edited By: Lich_King on 21 Jun 2003

heros 3 and heros 4..... which is better?

I just tried Heros 4 althought it has superb brillant graphics I think it is erm... too complicated.
Well I mean they added too many things in it but seriously,which is a better game,Heros 3 or Heros 4 ?
In Heros 4 the people there are too small in better and there is no sense of deja vu in it, unlike in Heros 3.
Sometimes a simpler game is much nicer to play...

~Top !~
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DarkVenom
DarkVenom


Adventuring Hero
Grandmaster Daywalker
posted November 17, 2002 01:37 PM

Which is better? That's not an easy choice. You see, HOMM 4 has many improvement over the previous games especially in graphic and technical issues for that matter. But for game play I like HOMM 3 better. So I like and play both games!

I hope to see HOMM V contain the best out of HOMM 4 and HOMM 3 with none of their weakness.
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kaiser
kaiser

Tavern Dweller
für das Vaterland
posted November 17, 2002 02:09 PM

i enjoyed heroes 3 more at the time, heroes 4 could've been better if they'd had more time to work on it
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terje_the_ma...
terje_the_mad_wizard


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
posted January 06, 2003 11:53 AM

I think the editor in homm3 is superb; it have it all. (More than the one in homm4, anyway..)

But the 'heroes in combat' is totally brilliant! And now I feel that I get a closer relationship with my heroes(sic), and I love it. But the editor was like one step foreward and three giant leaps back.. compared to the homm3 editor.

Another great thing about homm4 is that they removed that foolish 'upgrade all buildings' thingy. It was good in homm2, but I think they made it possible to upgrade to much in homm3. Coz seriously, who wants to have infernal troglodytes, master gremlins or familiars(upgraded imps..)??!!
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.

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Abort
Abort

Tavern Dweller
shapeshifter
posted January 06, 2003 06:16 PM

H4 is better because it means great number of changes. All previous versions compared with H4 looks to me as expansions for H1 (I know, I loved them, played them lot and wasted bunch of time with them but H4...).
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CzlowiekWiadro
CzlowiekWiadro


Hired Hero
Windowlicker
posted January 06, 2003 07:07 PM

My 3 gr

It's impossible to say that one of them is ultimately better. First of all, they are all very DIFFERENT.

Comparing Homm1 and Homm2, h2 was quite a milestone. It introduced new magic system, skill system, unit upgrades (about 3 per castle), 2 really fresh towns...

Now, comparing H2 to H3, H3 is much improved H2. I guess we can really say h3 is better. 90% of game mechanisms were old h2 ones developed further, and polished; new stuff is added. 2 new towns, more spells, creatures, many skills, adventure map locations, choice between might and magic hero (to earn for game's name :-)...


Now, H4 comes with not only innovations, but with fundamental changes too (castle siege, skills, heroes, no knowledge, spell power, attack and def skill etc). It's very different. Personally I like H4 much more. In fact, I was suprised how many of my ideas came to life in h4.

Things I like very much in Heroes4:

Castle siege. In heroes3, if a hero had Expert Ballistics, nothing could prevent him from destroying at least one wall section. Even without exp ballistics, it was really hard to destroy catapult before it does it's job (note it was immune to Implosion)
Castles weren't really of much help on defense. Lots of creatures could fly or shoot, and city walls absorbing just 1/2 of missiles...

Now, you can defend castle effectively with just melee troops.

Battlefield seems larger. There are fewer flying/ranged creatures, and they're generally much slower. Unlike H3, where total melee occured in 1-3 turns. Shooters were easier to slaughter.

Magic system from h3 should be called Chaos Magic. It was pure cHaOs, indeed. Some spells were found in some towns more often (town portal in Dungeons and Ramparts I believe)
but basically it was pure luck, it couldn't be counted into strategy.
Every idiot without magic skills was able to learn 2leveled Blind (which lasted longer than 2 turns) spell and disable enemy army unit by unit.
It was extremally easy to remove spells from units, however.
In my opinion most devastating hero (combat-wise) in long term was knight/barbarian/beastmaster with skills like Offense, Armorer, Luck, Leadership, Archery, Tactics (to reach enemy faster), Logistics and... Earth Magic at expert level, easy to learn. It allowed to cast Mass Stoneskin, Mass Shield, and Mass Slow.

In heroes4 each magic school is very specific, and has different purpose.

Note that magic schools are OBVIOUSLY taken from Magic:The Gathering card game.

Life (white in MTG) is all about healing and protecting army

Chaos (red in MTG) is focused on direct damage but also has impressive spells for making army stronger.

Death (black in MTG) is designed for weakening enemy army.

Green, er, I mean Nature has good summon creature spells and benefitial creature enchantments too.

Order is very similar to blue from MTG. Its domain are illusions and mind tricks. Same as blue, it's hard to define it's purpose in one sentece - it has lots of funny spells which use depends on cicumstances greatly.

In other words, if you're going to build Sorcerers' Guild, you pretty much know what are you going to receive. You can plan your strategy BEFORE building the guild.

No creature upgrades - well, they were funny in H2, but in h3 it's just too much.

More expensive town structures - I like that. H3 allowed to build all most useful buildings by end of week2, and it was very common. After that, b0reDoM.
Who says you can't attack your enemy before getting level7/level4 ?

Heroes now have different functions. Before h4, they were needed mainly for battlefield bonus. Now you can have a hero who is useless in battle (lord, thief) but shouldn't be understimated.

Scouting and Seamanship much better. There's no useless skill except for Seamanship on desert map. 50% more skill choices.

You can customize your army with and choose ones you want to use.

.......to name a few.

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Majin
Majin


Hired Hero
Lord of Brimstone
posted January 08, 2003 12:40 AM

IMHO, I like both and I can't decide which one is better. I like Heroes IV because it looks good and is fun to play but then Heroes III has more creatures and artifacts, which diversifies the game more.

If I was to chose between them, I wouldn't know which one to pick

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CzlowiekWiadro
CzlowiekWiadro


Hired Hero
Windowlicker
posted January 08, 2003 04:48 PM

Creatures

I disagree. There was more creatures, but they were much less specific. It was boring for me.

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Medusa
Medusa


Famous Hero
Yeah, right
posted January 09, 2003 01:37 PM

Actually i think H4 are much more better. Not only with the graphics...
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StormKnight
StormKnight

Tavern Dweller
posted January 13, 2003 07:04 PM
Edited By: StormKnight on 13 Jan 2003

This has been a really tough choice for me, and I just can't decide for sure.
I like the way Heroes IV has a lot more for HEROES to do.  Actually getting to have your heroes in the action, fighting alongside the troops, and really seeing their skills make a difference adds a lot to the game.  It also means that heroes that aren't spellcasters can still do things!
Spells generally work better, though I miss the way increasing the skill level improved the spell, especially with the things like haste or slow turning into mass haste/mass slow.
I really like not having to have heroes running around to gather up all the weekly creature generators and resources producers every week, and I'm quite happy to not have the 'day seven' attack strategy.
I like that creatures don't have to be upgraded - it was more of a hassle than anything else.
I DON'T like the new battlefield - its hard to tell where creatures can or can't move to.  Sometimes creatures seem to run in circles to go a few steps.  Sometimes you attack an opponent in melee and this stops them from shooting, but other times they seem able to shoot just fine!
The new siege is terrible.  Its almost impossible to tell by what logic you can or can't go over the wall.  Sieges tend to turn into shooting down the creatures on towers, then slowly sending illusions or summoned creatures to batter down the gate and harass the creatures inside.  Defending without only a citadel or fort, and not a castle, seems more of a disadvantage than anything else - only a few of your missile troops can shoot out, but all of the enemy can shoot or attack them!  And a castle is really no help without missile troops to protect it.
The one thing that I really despise about Heroes IV is the lack of a random map generator.  Given that the strategic map really isn't very different from Heroes III, they should have been able to base one off the old generator with minimal changes.  Not having really reduces how much longer term play I will get out of the game.
Oh, I also really despise how they put 3 useless skills (Scouting, Navigation and Stealth) together in one package to ensure a single skill group that you never want to get stuck with...but that's a different story.
Overall, I think I like most things in H4 a little better, but there are still things in H3 that I miss.  A very tough choice!
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My famous last words in Heroes I: "I don't know what ghosts do, but I've got a few thousand goblins, I should be able to fight them!"

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Loc_Dog
Loc_Dog

Tavern Dweller
posted January 14, 2003 01:12 PM

I think that 4 heroes better than 3. But it on the fan. Simply all have got used to 3 heroes and to 4 begin to get used. I am sure that when everyone will get used to 4 they will be the best game.
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Vince
Vince


Hired Hero
posted January 15, 2003 04:41 PM

Lots of interesting opinions here.

Yes HOMM4 is more complicated and the learning curve is fairly steep but once you spend the time to get familiar with all the rules and strategies, it is very much worth it.  As a result of this, HOMM4 has better replay value.

HOMM3 did have more creatures overall but I agree that the differences between them all were not as great as the differences in HOMM4.  Sometimes more isn't better and this is one of those cases.  Special abilities seem to be a bit more important in HOMM4.

I didn't like the movement rules in HOMM3, very non-sensical, especially the way you could relay a bunch of creatures across the entire map if you had enough heroes spread out properly.  HOMM4 rules here are way better.

Heroes not involved in combat is also non-sensical.  If you are not going to be involved in the fighting and take risks then you are not really a hero right?  You are more of a coward in the back in HOMM3.

The RPG twist is something I like a lot but I guess this one is more a matter of taste.  It's something that makes the game a bit more addictive than HOMM3.

I was thinking of buying the Heroes 3 Complete Platinum(the first 3 heroes with all official expansions) but now I'm having second thoughts.  At the very least, the price needs to come down a bit.

I have heard that the AI is worse in HOMM4 and it does seems to be the case but that is the problem with all genuinely new games.  The AI is almost always going to blow on a recently released game and then patches come out to improve it.  If you need more of a challenge from the AI then try to limit yourself somehow.  That's what people do in other games(turn based or not) that they have mastered.

All just IMO of course.
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cbanken
cbanken

Tavern Dweller
posted January 17, 2003 12:42 AM

Heroes 3 vs. Heroes 4

After having played Homm3 for many, many hours, I played number 4 for the first time this week. I must honestly say, that I have never, ever been so disappointed with a sequel in my life. This is no exagguration. I agree with the one who said, sometimes more is not better, and in this case, it is true. Homm 4 has removed all the great things about homm3, and added useless and annoying features. I hate having heroes fight in combat, I hate getting new creatures every day instead of every week,  i hate not having knowledge and spell power, and I don't like that you cannot relay your creatures like before. Homm 4 is like adding nuclear bombs and cannons to a game of chess, it takes away the charm. I was almost in tears when I played number 4, no kidding. Did they even test the game on real people before they released it? The only thing that I really, really hope for, like someone said, is that when you get used to it, it is better than number 3, but I seriously doubt it. Heroes 4 made me feel like a little kid wanting a bike for christmas, and not receiving a single gift.

A very disappointed heroes fan



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sos
sos


Known Hero
posted January 17, 2003 06:01 AM

Most of us felt like that in the begining, but later some began to like it in multi. As Re-Animator says Heroes 3 is like a nice sport car while Heroes 4 is like a jet-fighter. But until you learn how to fly you can't appreciate it

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FighterOfHea...
FighterOfHeaven


Hired Hero
posted January 17, 2003 09:23 PM

Quote:

 Coz seriously, who wants to have infernal troglodytes, master gremlins or familiars(upgraded imps..)??!!


I do! but i agree, it`s too much... perhaps if they had made some real differances, in let`s say abilities, or just make `em a lot better.

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Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 23, 2003 09:23 PM

Yeah, awesome, and hurts your own units too!

Of course, upgrading pixies to sprites early in the game (if you dare to play for Conflux) will give you a big advantage: high speed, flying and the most terrifying thing: NON-RETALIATED STRIKE!

Airs turned to Storms can be very dangerous (imagine a blessed stack of 20 stormies week 1 or 2 )

Gremlins -> Gremlin Masters upgrade also rather cool (the only possible chance to win for Tower lol)

Wolf Riders -> Wolf Raiders a necessary upgrade that makes wolves more valuable (oh, poor 10HP wolves... )

And so on...

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ByteBandit
ByteBandit


Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
posted February 04, 2003 03:34 AM

Myself, I don't like HOMM3 or HOMM4. I like HOMM 3.5 or WoG. Why? Because I can make the game anything I want it to.
I already have scripts that improve all secondary skills and have converted most of the unscripted objects into usable objects. And the war machines have been turned now into a major factor. And I have a script that when you attack a wandering stack of creatures, there may or may not be a Hero defending them(He carries a black flag by the way) along with war machines to help that wandering army. Talk about weapons of mass destruction!!!!
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this_other_guy
this_other_guy


Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
posted February 16, 2003 04:48 AM

yeah... WoG is a desent addon, but since we're talkin about H3 and H4, I'll go with H3. My main reason is the creature upgrade system.
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ramparter
ramparter


Hired Hero
posted February 16, 2003 09:27 PM

I prefer H4 but I know it isn't perfect. H3 was better in some ways like the ability to recruit all of your town creatures.
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this_other_guy
this_other_guy


Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
posted February 19, 2003 06:54 AM

Quote:
The removal of the retarded creature upgrade system is at the top of my list for changes.


RETARDED? The upgrade system is a key aspect of homm3 which made the game more strategical. Having upgraded creatures and base creatures could make a major difference in the result of the game. This issue brings up resource management, which is, like I said before, all about strategy. Heroes just happens to be a strategy game.
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