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| Thread: Necropolis Equalizers |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 11, 2002 04:40 AM |
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Quote:
the easiest way to 'modify' vampires would be to reduce their properties in HP, and attack defence.
Their att/def of 30 is way too high, almost like level 4, and their hp could be safely reduced to 60.
So if vamps were kept all the same but made 60hp and attdef of 20, they would be more reasonable.
Yeah but is there anyway to get 3DO or anyone else to do it?
Also then won't it be next to Impossible for them too stand up to the Monks and Crusaders from the Haven town? Maybe just take away there Death Ward.
...And give it too the Angels...
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 11, 2002 08:59 AM |
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Rules drools :p ... .... . . .
Quote:
the easiest way to 'modify' vampires would be to reduce their properties in HP, and attack defence.
Their att/def of 30 is way too high, almost like level 4, and their hp could be safely reduced to 60.
So if vamps were kept all the same but made 60hp and attdef of 20, they would be more reasonable.
Sounds like a good idea to keep them viable and very functional to me Ves. I hope the numbers get play tested too. something that seems to be lacking in 3do planning many times.
Until that happens if anyone thinks they are a great Homm4 then don't whine about Necros and learn how to kill them if you are a great player. That is the philosophy to embrace. If that is not fun for some (ie: they are too afraid their ego can get brused by losing an unbalanced game) then play with friends who have similar fears and don't go imposing this philosophy on others.
Lastly, any matter about rule making carries no weight in the eyes of the Honor Council. There are no rules and if you make them and your opponent violates them .......... you get screwed. So don't leave your rule making up to other people's interpretation if you must have rules to enjoy yourself. Furthermore people found to be making a big deal about rules and pushing their beliefs on other players who would rather not have rules may be found to have their honor rating lowered for such actions. This is not something people need to start hammering people about.
All people deserve their freedom to enjoy their games and some may want to run with Necro playing or other tactics that will be VERY tough to beat. Fight fire with fire, either be a Necro too or ask if the would care to please play other races for something new.
Personally, I want to take pleasure in kicking someone's butt that is counting on this tactic. If people work at it the tactics will come. Nothing is more laughable then to foil someone who is limiting themselve to one single tactic that is telegraphed from the game start.
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 11, 2002 10:12 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
the easiest way to 'modify' vampires would be to reduce their properties in HP, and attack defence.
Their att/def of 30 is way too high, almost like level 4, and their hp could be safely reduced to 60.
So if vamps were kept all the same but made 60hp and attdef of 20, they would be more reasonable.
Sounds like a good idea to keep them viable and very functional to me Ves. I hope the numbers get play tested too. something that seems to be lacking in 3do planning many times.
Until that happens if anyone thinks they are a great Homm4 then don't whine about Necros and learn how to kill them if you are a great player. That is the philosophy to embrace. If that is not fun for some (ie: they are too afraid their ego can get brused by losing an unbalanced game) then play with friends who have similar fears and don't go imposing this philosophy on others.
Lastly, any matter about rule making carries no weight in the eyes of the Honor Council. There are no rules and if you make them and your opponent violates them .......... you get screwed. So don't leave your rule making up to other people's interpretation if you must have rules to enjoy yourself. Furthermore people found to be making a big deal about rules and pushing their beliefs on other players who would rather not have rules may be found to have their honor rating lowered for such actions. This is not something people need to start hammering people about.
All people deserve their freedom to enjoy their games and some may want to run with Necro playing or other tactics that will be VERY tough to beat. Fight fire with fire, either be a Necro too or ask if the would care to please play other races for something new.
Personally, I want to take pleasure in kicking someone's butt that is counting on this tactic. If people work at it the tactics will come. Nothing is more laughable then to foil someone who is limiting themselve to one single tactic that is telegraphed from the game start.
Yes it is fun to beat someone when they only depend on one thing and don't think about what will happen if you don't play the way they think you will.
Also sometimes if you don't play with the rules they want though you will have a very long time trying to get someone to play.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 11, 2002 06:59 PM |
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I still say lets get someone to make a homemade patch which reduces the vamp's stats. (maybe the WOG guys)
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My Site
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sos
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2002 01:26 AM |
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If I could I would change 2 things about necro.
1. Necromany skill should give only skellies like in previous heroes games.
Before the number of skellies that you get depended on the number and hitpoints of the creatures that you killed - bigger fights gave you more skellies. Now no matter how big a stack you kill you get the same number of vamps limited by the hero level. Only if the stack is too small you get some ghosts insead of vamps. This doesnt make much sence.
Also, if necromancy gave you skellies this would slow your entire army down, if you keep them in the main force. Now you travel pretty fast without the skellies.
2. I would put some requirement for the vamps dweling so it's not available day 2. What happens now is that you build your mansion day 2 and if you have enough money buy your 2 vamps same day. With 2 vamps you can go a long way clearing mines and such with no losses. This allows death to have the fastest start in the game (together with fast imp scouts).
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted December 12, 2002 03:23 AM |
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before you guys were born
Me and Mel were playing hot seat homm4 when it first came out without multiplayer. I remember telling her that if there one thing the game needed fixing in play balance was the vampires. Everything else looked good to me. 7 months later (today), I still feel the same way.
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted December 12, 2002 09:30 AM |
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I realy do not like death
And I ve never played for toh with death(Chaos,Order and 1 with life  )
its k with that vampires
but death speed- kill's
not vampires
choose order TRY to move faster and beat DEATH, I see no problem
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 12, 2002 09:22 PM |
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well thats what you hafta do... if person is gonna be death, then you shouldnt be nature or something thats just stupid... you should be order or life, or you shouldnt play at all 
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted December 13, 2002 01:43 AM |
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I don't get your point. What is your problem with Nature, Barbarian or Chaos?
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 13, 2002 01:50 AM |
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Quote:
I don't get your point. What is your problem with Nature, Barbarian or Chaos?
Nothing, i like all the towns, im just saying that you shouldnt play nature barb or chaos vs. death (unless playing a worse player) if you want to win
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 13, 2002 04:20 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't get your point. What is your problem with Nature, Barbarian or Chaos?
Nothing, i like all the towns, im just saying that you shouldnt play nature barb or chaos vs. death (unless playing a worse player) if you want to win
I don't know, I tried Necro vs Stronghold one time and got soundly trounced by a high level barbarian with GM Combat, Melee, Archery and Resistance. His Deffense was so high that no matter what my 40 vamps did they really couldn't win. He only had to use lie 2 Immortality Potions for the whole battle. That's with an at least a level 12 Necromancer (can't remmember what his other skills were) and my army, which was pretty good. In addition to the vamps i had 2Bone Dragons and 30 ghosts and 100 Imps ithink.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 07:21 AM |
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this is stupid
U must have cancelerac spell and barbar is dead meat
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted December 13, 2002 10:15 AM |
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 13, 2002 06:12 PM |
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deth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 14, 2002 10:09 PM |
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Quote:
Also sometimes if you don't play with the rules they want though you will have a very long time trying to get someone to play.
I'd rather even not play at all with someone who was clinging fast to any particular setup or rules. Someone that inflexible is bound to have or cause problems in more area then just this. That usually is indicative of a more upsetting time then having not played at all.
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 14, 2002 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
I found vamps to be really easy to kill.
I find crusaders far more difficult to kill than vamps.
When guy goes death, I go life.
Nice to hear an idea rather then a whine for some modification. We will most likely be waiting a long time for any possible adjustments if needed. I base this off the time it takes for 3do to actually produce things. They only seem to be interested in a patch to make an expansion pack compatable (been that way since heroes3AB).
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted December 14, 2002 10:31 PM |
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Vampires are a great way to win a battle.
USe them
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2003 05:13 PM |
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Some things what Map Maker can do to make Death weaker:
Ban Necromancy from available skills. You can later give the player access to necromancy by using scripts or Altars of Death if you so want.
Link every neutral to the player's alignment. This means that if the player Red is Death then all creatures in his or her area are also Death creatures. So around half of the creatures (Inferno creatures can be drained and raised) in that player's area aren't raisable via Necromancy.
Make Venom Spawns a better choice. This can be done, for example, with Quest Huts. Like quests that will give you 15 Venom Spawns if you have Venom Spawns in your army and 12 Vampires if you have Vampires in your army. Of course, every other alignment must also have such (or balance the alignments in other way)
Put less neutral guards to the map.
Use more creatures that can't be raised.
Put a shrine with (Mass) Death Ward and Witch Hut that will teach Life Magic. Vampires can only drain 1 health from every three damage they inflict from creatures with Death Ward (like Monks and Crusaders). This will however make the whole Death weaker and not just the Vampires.
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 08, 2003 02:20 AM |
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I got plenty of cheese here, so can I please have some more .....?
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Vortigern
Hired Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 03:38 AM |
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necro equalizers
If I were playing against a necrotown, and the GM necromancer decided to try to iniliate me by attacking me with his army along with tons of vampires, I would try to find a way to beat their skills. The life drain skill is the vampires' bread and butter, right? So If you formed a strategy to either mitigate or even neutralize that skill, then your opponent can kiss the win good-bye. Some ways I'v e come up with are determined by the town I'm using:
Preserve: Avoid hand-to-hand with the vampires. Use Faerie dragons magic attacks and Elf Long-range attacks to widdle down the vamps. Summon weak creatures to soak up their retaliation.
Haven: Once again, avoid hand to hand with the vamps! Using archers to weaken them is obvious, but using Ballistae to soak up their retaliation(at close range) might not be. Crusaders can hold their own against vamps (being the strongest 3rd level melee foot soldier.
Order:Two mechanical troops, two magic attackers, and great magic.
Try this stuff and see if it wipe's the confidence off their face.
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