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| Thread: SPLEXX IS A CHEATER!!!!!!!!!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2002 01:42 PM |
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i think this is a case of morals being determined by what is socially acceptable.
viewing other player's towns is seen as ok by most players.
getting the as-if-i-had-a-royal-griffin logistic advantage with empty scouts is not (even tho i cant see why not).
Seeing every aspect of an opponent's hero is certainly not, and i can see why this would never be socially acceptable.
On randoms i would add another one: can i take an artie or box if the guard is misplaced by the generator?
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted December 24, 2002 02:03 PM |
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Hi splexx,
u might get all the things mixed up. I remember this game very well. U were using this bug (or cheat) on a random map were u picked rampart town, so u wouldve been sure to be on "grasheaven" with speed of 9.
As i saw u. i must say i felt cheated. But as i considered u as beginner (u werent a newbie at that time), i said WTF but after it i very very politely told u that this is considered as cheating and u shouldnt use it in TOH games.
U said after this game i spammed "u are cheater" or somethin in the main chat room. Sorry u r totally wrong... the truth is U started a silly discussion in the chat room and had some friends to joined it.
And i said "this is considered as cheating dont do it in future games"...and not "u r a cheater". I hope as these are written words u can read it more often so at least even u understand the difference.
After this incidence u keep on attacking me on the zone and tell others that im unhonorable...which is a joke, as i saw some saves right after the game when u still using this bug..well but thats not my problem, and i think after others told u that this is considered as cheating u stopped using it (at least i hope).
To chubby: Last time we and others had a discussion about the upcoming War that USA will have with Iraq. This discussion was very controvers..and we both hat 2 total different positions. But somehow u felt personally attacked and now u try to show me in a bad light ...btw a very weak try as everyone can see that easily. I hope u might can be more objective in future and not felt personally attacked, as i didnt do it.
To the bugs:
The Castle Bug was considered as a cheat...like all the other bugs. But for various reasons it was accepted to use this bug from TOH season 2. All players agreed to it silently and Ves stated a comment on that matter. How to use this bug was even explained in TOH bug list. So as it is was ok for all players in the about last 4 seasons why are now some players complaining about it. I dont say it was ok ..it was more like common sense. So if people want to talk about then only for one reason: The want to point out that ive a bad reputation. Well..i couldnt care less, everyone knows who once played me that he will get a nice and fair game with long turn... well maybe with long turns  but at least nice and fair.
All the other bugs..ALL of them..are still seen as cheats!!! And i really wonder if a vet explained someone how to use, THAT HE DOESNT SAY that this is seen as a cheat.. as he must have known it for sure! And i wonder why splexx dont mention his name here (as he easily mention my name here for nothing), if he thinks to use this bug is ok? Well..easy to see ...he knows that it was might be not ok to use this bug ..every player who play in fair way see that using this bug is not ok..WITHOUT BEING TOLD that it wasnt ok.
Ok just my 3 Dollars,
Xarfax1
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 24, 2002 03:51 PM |
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I have to agree:
Quote:
methinks making use of "bug"s is cheating. Ghost hero or castle view, it matters not.
The difference is you can get caught in one and you cant get caught in another.
Furtherworse, there is another bug which allows you to view your opponent's hero/s  . Skills, spells, troops. And it is impossible to detect this either. If you think that making use of a bug is not cheating, you surely are not aware of all of the bugs.
Castle viewing clearly is a programming error and an error like this is known as a bug. It will crash the game if you view an opponent castle when you don't have the same number too.
If somone is using bugs in their game what is that? Is it cheating? Some say yes and others no. (Those that would argue "no" are mostly trying to justify actions they have been using.) I would hope that people who are "honest players" do inform their opponents if they are going to use the castle view bug. If you don't inform your opponent then to me that crosses the line between cheating and not cheating.
Just because castle viewing is almost uncatchable, and it is imo THE hardest bug to prove is being used, doesn't mean it isn't a bug/cheat. Without question it is a bug and a cheat ....... it is accepted by most players as being "allowed," since they have no way of preventing it. Hence it was even posted on the ToH bug reports. Most people resort to using the information themselves and thus "cheating" a little bit. Wouldn't you prevent this info from being accessed if you could?
When I cheat like this I just make sure my opponent knows so they can opt out of a game. Actually, I personally don't use bugs and that means not viewing my opponents castle to see what they are building. Just makes the game more fun for me and I feel good if I win knowing my opponent was probably viewing me anyhow.
Maybe a better defintion of cheating is: Gaining an unfair advantage over another player by using bugs in the game? Thus, if you inform your opponent of what bugs you will be using then you are at least being upfront and that is not so dishonest/cheat?
Now, here's a thought:
I can view your castle building, I can view your garrisoned troupes, I can view all items and stats on a hero, I can view entire map without shroud, and I can even view entire troop locations during game while it is in play. Since all of these are undetectable are they all ok for me to use? Or do I just draw the line on the bugs that any noob can find without trying hard at all?
Oh, should we post all these methods on the bug page too so everyone hears of it? These methods have been around and unfixed since the first season too. 3DO just doesn't care much about HoMM on-line is the REAL problem (their halfwitted secrecy policies keep them from play testing worth a darn too). Maybe I should post a "Great Ways to cheat Without Getting Caught Manual" eh?
Btw, imo even this thread should be deleted, or should have been already. Reading though the posts it does more harm then good. Players are now being drawn to use bugs more then they did before. Splexx is a great example of what I mean. He clearly never used the ghost hero bug and then within 15 mins he is now an avid user if he wanted to be.
*Motion on the floor for deletion* if you second and have the power then do it.
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splexx
Known Hero
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posted December 24, 2002 06:46 PM |
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The reason I started this thread is because of you Xarfax!!
For the past 8-9 months, everytime we disagree on any subject, you automatically spamm that I am a "bug using cheater"..blah blah
You even post in a Library thread that I cheat.
And I am phucking fed up with it!!!
When I began playin on-line I was the typical noob..
Only 2 heroes wk 1, build straight to capitol, and Tower is the best town
After nearly 2 months I finally learned of the Castle view, and I was told ALL top toh players use this. I was p!ssed off that my first 100 games on-line every opponent had an unfair advantage over me and didn't share this info.
Then I play Tewilligar and learn of this ghost hero trick and he tells me he usually uses a few for scouts in his games, and he learned it from Mocara.
So I figure it's just another tactic that vets use in their games since two well respected players are using it...
Now Xarfax, we play our game.
I was quite shocked when you said Flamingo was put in HOS for using the bug. So I immediately ask on zone if its true?
Then I realize its not widely used or know to all, and can be considered a cheat.
Anyways, since then I've prolly played 300 more games with no problems...but you can't seem to let it go??
Contrary to what you think Xarfax, I do think you are a good & fair player, and I enjoyed the few games we have played in the past. But I will not tolerate being called a cheat.
C'est la vie!!
I am done with this subject
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Azif..
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maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted December 24, 2002 07:38 PM |
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i sort of have 2 agree with splexx
i too was taught by a VET ( but i must add that he no longer
is playing on zone because of college commitments ) when i first came on-line at the back end of season 4 before toh was shut down to use the castle view thing.
ever since i have thought that this was part of game and used by everyone. but last thing i want to be is accused of being a cheater !!
but like some others have already said in this thread, how can u stop or check ppl using it, u cant i think. maybe best thing 2 do is officaly make it ok in rules page or something.
i just know someone is gonna make a comment about this being a tourney of HONOR and that players should be trusted not u use it. but really, it is sad 2 say, but there seems 2 b so many players WITHOUT honor in this tourney that its a joke !!
r hell, me getting 2 serious, gonna go and have a FUN game, later .........
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted December 24, 2002 07:45 PM |
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good point, Midnight
Quote:
On randoms i would add another one: can i take an artie or box if the guard is misplaced by the generator?
Joetheloser (wish he'd come back) and I played many games with an agreement to not take arts/boxes that were misplaced like this. This was just a personal preference we each had, made to make the game more enjoyable for both of us by eliminating the occasional game-breaking 'freebie' that the generator is known to toss out there on the map.
The goodies were still up for grabs, we just agreed with one another not to take them without fighting the guards if it was possible to slip behind them.
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted December 24, 2002 08:16 PM |
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Quote:
The reason I started this thread is because of you Xarfax!!
For the past 8-9 months, everytime we disagree on any subject, you automatically spamm that I am a "bug using cheater"..blah blah
You even post in a Library thread that I cheat.
And I am phucking fed up with it!!!
lol,
if u think about it u know that u r always starting the trouble, for example:
..directly after the game u started the online discussion about this...NOT ME.
..in the refering thread u started to say that im unhonorable and stuff like this..and therefore i simply mentioned that u should better shut up as u used this bug. (Using this bug is unfair for every fair player..no need to be told that it is unfair!!..its like boxing into opponents balls in the boxring and saying: Hey nobody told me its unfair.) Im sure u were knowing what u were doin, so stop whining.
...in the discussion about the upcoming war we had totally different opinions. But instead of talking about the arguement u started to state: Hey he cheated in Greystoles game and bla. So once again u better shut up ..u were using bugs and stuff ...NOT ME.
...same to this thread..u r AGAIN starting to discuss about this very OLD matter..and again u wonder that i answer to it.
This is getting kindergarden....
U can answer to this i dont care, this matter is long thru with me..if u dont want me to refer to it, then just dont try to attack me in cheap way u do.
Xarfax1
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted December 24, 2002 08:27 PM |
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...same goes to Greystole:
I wasnt his opinion in the America vs Iraq discussion. So he cried about my cheating in his game. What the f*ck has this to do with the discusion we hed?..Well guess u were getting angry cause of running out of arguments.
Just a note to the game:
Greystole wanted a native hero game. As i played it only once and couldnt remember how it should work i asked him what it is. I did understand: U r only allowed to have a native hero as main.
Thats exactly what i did!
Unfortunately i didnt know that im not allowed to take else heros as scouts. I simply misunderstood the rules he made (u must know he makes tons of rules if u play him). So the game was spoiled and we went out of it.
And then after 2 hours we had the above mentioned discussion and out of nothin he stated somethin like "u can be happy that i dont post u to HC cause of your cheating in native game".
Lol what a joke... listen Greystole now i gonna say somethin that might really bring me to HC:
I WONT PLAY U AGAIN CAUSE U R SIMPLY STUPID.
..honorable but very stupid.
So go away stupid.
Xarfax1
PS: Eeehm...Merry Christmas to all of u ..love and peace.
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oris
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 24, 2002 10:29 PM |
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Hehehe you know the fuuny thing is Splexx is that you say Mocara used it but I plyed him numerous times and he never used that trick not even once.
Maybe he probally thought it was not a fair idea and could be a cheat.
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Andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted December 25, 2002 01:13 AM |
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Well this is really about what is going on in TOH and the Zone - if you know the community you know that viewing castle is a common thing to do, and ghost hero is considered as cheat by most players...
So my advice really would be to make the ghost heroes a official cheat on mah page - its not just a little thing, speed 9 scouts is 1 of the most important advantages of fortress, and with ghost heroes all towns have it.
BTW i believe noone a single word if he talks about he didnt know its a cheat...a noob maybe can say that, but not you other guys that are on zone freqently, you all know what the deal is...
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splexx
Known Hero
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posted December 25, 2002 04:59 AM |
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Quote:
BTW i believe noone a single word if he talks about he didnt know its a cheat...a noob maybe can say that, but not you other guys that are on zone freqently, you all know what the deal is...
Not everyone has been online or in ToH for 3,4 or 5 yrs...
Don't know about Tew..but my first online game was Jan.3/02..vs Lemon_log
Got my arse kicked royally
So, Andi give it a rest
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Azif..
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bpanik2
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posted December 25, 2002 09:56 AM |
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and there off,lol my 2 cents 1st of all these people that know of the ghost bugs view spell bugs or rather cheats to me,how did they come bye them are these downloaded,special commands too use from keypad,ect well that should tell you a little bit about yourself and honesty,as far as the castle bugs goes everyone uses it no exceptions and even the newbies get told this its not a cheat not even in the same league as a ghost hero or viewing someones spells ect.and no you will not be aloud to use those if i can help it,so take warning now if you are using it stop.cya on the battle fields and merry christmas.bp
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted December 25, 2002 02:49 PM |
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Quote:
as far as the castle bugs goes everyone uses it no exceptions and even the newbies get told this its not a cheat
i 2nd that. Bpanik is absolutely right. the "view castle" has become a part of the game - and that for years now. people not only use it to find out a few infos about opponents castle - no i for example use it to trick my opponents sometimes .
because when u know opponent is able to see whats in ur castle + how far its build u can use it against him too. make him believe u build that 2nd town by putting a fort in it and usually they try to rush ya now and think they have an advantage if they attack early and then they get their butts kicked. or Show him some of you joiners to scare the snow out him and/or preventing an rush whichwould kill ya.
Motorschaaf
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leafy_dragon
Tavern Dweller
Renegade assassin for hire.
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posted December 26, 2002 01:21 PM |
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Hi people,
I came on-line about 6-8 months ago and started playing heroes3, so i am a fairly big noob , i know about the castle trick, but what pray tell is this heroes ghosting trick?? You all talk about like everyone know's it, but i have never heard of it (and I also asked a couple of Vet's aswell, who knew nothing.) I haven't had it used against me, that i know of but with all you people starting to discuss it, it will start people on a path to work out how it is done .
Instead, if you told people how it is done, it is no longer a big secert and people before the games can discuss if they can use it or not, because people will know what it can do.
As for the castle trick, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Everybody uses it and like motor's said, use it to your advantage. Remember, You are playing to win, but like all good soliders, Fight with Honour. A Victory is empty, if you have to cheat to win.
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Just a small town lad, looking to make it big
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Bad_Boxa
Adventuring Hero
Bulgarian Azure Dragon
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posted December 26, 2002 05:41 PM |
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Quote:
OK, here's the scoop
About 8 month's ago..Season 4..
Picture it:
ToH Noob 2002
I played a cool dude..he is now an Honour Council member..
We agreed on a "Native hero" style game..
Not the kinda Native game Xarfag plays
A real native game..and my opp says can we use the "no army thing"..I say WTF is that..
So he shows me..and I think since this bud is doin it ...
then its a cool new bug(tactic) I dun know about...
So, I start to use it a few games with Terry, Des, Ed III, etc..
Now I agree to have another cool game with Xarfag(he used to like easy pts.)...
And I'm playin along with my ghost heroes...lalala
and I meet one of Xarfag's scouts thru a one way portal..he attacks an says WTF..
I...like the noob i was..say..s up
He calls me cheater..quits..then repeats on Zone..
Them's the Facts!!!
So what y'all think?
OH..btw..I never used it since
Hi Splexx my friend u really a cheter? lol This is impossible:]]]
 Agresion Come Back To You
aka.Boxa
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Agression Comes Back To You
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chubby051
Promising
Known Hero
King of All That Are Fat
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posted December 27, 2002 05:40 PM |
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Quote:
To chubby: Last time we and others had a discussion about the upcoming War that USA will have with Iraq. This discussion was very controvers..and we both hat 2 total different positions. But somehow u felt personally attacked and now u try to show me in a bad light ...btw a very weak try as everyone can see that easily. I hope u might can be more objective in future and not felt personally attacked, as i didnt do it.
personally attacked? nah, was just clearifing things for you that you have no idea about, thats all. I refuse to just sit there and let people bad mouth my country because of their jealousy of it. 90% of the people that run their mouths in the zone no nothing about the USA or what we stand for, this includes you. Please don't fell personally attacked by this, i am just telling you how it is.
Back to the topic:
Several of you are hypocrits. How can you say that one bug is ok because everybody knows about it, yet another is not ok because some people don't know about it? In reality, none of these bugs were suppose to be in the game. So if you are going to black list one bug, you have to black list them all.
And to say that the castle bug isn't that big of a deal is wrong. It is just as strong a bug as the ghost hero. Knowing what kinds of castles you opponent has can give you a lot of info. Spells to expect, number of critters to expect. Does he/she have resurrect? Does he/she have implo? Did he/she build Castle or Dragons week 1? And the list goes on and on......
Obviously you can't tell exactly what spells they got, but you can get a good idea of what to expect. Just take a look at Xarfax's post on the castle bug. As you can all see by now, Xarfax and I rarely see eye to eye, but it is a very good post on how to use the castle bug.
Bottom line: They are all put on rules page or none are, otherwise you are a hypocrit.
IMO
Chubbs
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Trees Grow Taller in the Shade
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chubby051
Promising
Known Hero
King of All That Are Fat
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posted December 27, 2002 06:10 PM |
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Quote:
viewing enemies castle is NO cheat - everyone does it alrdy, and you could never know your opponent does it...how can this be a cheat?
The empty hero thing is a clear cheat - and that needs to be written on rules, better main page too imo so everyone hears of it.
Is viewing an opponents hero (stats, spells, arts) detectable? As far as I know, it isn't, but as I have said before, i don't know much about this bug.
So, since this bug isn't detectable (that I know of), how can you seperate the two?
Sorry Andi, i am not trying to insult you or make you look bad, but just wanted to state that weather a bug is detectable or not doesn't catagorize it as ok to use or not.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Chubbs
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Trees Grow Taller in the Shade
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Andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted December 27, 2002 08:25 PM |
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Well Chubbs, some may not agree that castle viewing is ok - but the point is that its a accepted standard alrdy in the heroes community.
As said it isnt detectable too - so banning it would only bring problems...why not letting it be as it is if most players accept it as a part of the game?
The ghost heroes thing is totally different, most do NOT accept it - and most dont even know how to do it or that it exists...
So to sum it up: We cant mix those 2 things up, the 1 is a cheat that needs to be banned, the other is a accepted bug.
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Oris
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 27, 2002 09:11 PM |
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Hi everyone I would just like to say that not everyone knows about the ghost trick so if this trick is to be aloud,then we all should know about it.
Come on Tewilligar, tell us how it works, here in public?
I remember playing a player and I saw his hero run off with no heroes creatures on his hero.
So I asked "how do you do that,I want to try it too"
So he told me "That is for me to know"
I think if you are going to ban it,then ban it imediately otherwise we should all know this trick?
One more thing having a9 plus speed because a no creature penalty can be harsh.
Not even a hobgoblin is faster then a hero.
Plus if you do put it as a rule, then how can we tell if the player only uses it for the first week to pick up early resources and explore the lands then disbans them after the first week or if they feel that his oponent is coming?
Do we have to save everyday now, even if we play a vet?
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chubby051
Promising
Known Hero
King of All That Are Fat
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posted December 27, 2002 09:41 PM |
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Quote:
Do we have to save everyday now, even if we play a vet?
EVERY time I play a vet I save every turn. Not because I am worried about him/her cheating, but to go back and look at the saves after the game. This is the best way to learn how to play this game.
I have about 8 saves on games with Frank, god knows how many with Moc, 3 or so with zud. etc.... Still waiting to play andi and motor, but they don't play us noobs. Don't want to play flamingo, his english is almost as bad as Aculias. (jk bud. lol)
@Andi
I kinda see what you're saying, but I still think way too many people under rate the advantages of the castle bug.
Chubbs
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Trees Grow Taller in the Shade
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