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| Thread: North Korea-war? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted February 08, 2003 07:15 AM |
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PH you really don't know the meaning of a preemptive strike in the current political discourse? The theory of preemptive strike is a theory of military intervention when a country has been deemed a clear and present danger to humanity. A preemptive strike is legitimized when a country has displayed and continues to display an aggressive totalitarian mindset. A preemptive strike as delineated by Bush after 9/11 is a completely different theory then as it has generally been historically practiced.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 06:19 AM |
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The news has been reporting:
“North Korea has said it would consider the imposition of sanctions an act of war.”
What a bunch of aggro, bloodthirsty, lunatics!
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 19, 2003 12:33 AM |
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Quote:
What a bunch of aggro, bloodthirsty, lunatics!
You mean their leader is an aggro, bloodthirsty, lunatic, right?
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted February 23, 2003 12:29 AM |
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Friend in need is a friend indeed?
Pro-U.S. Rallies Draw Crowds in S. Korea
33 minutes ago
By HANS GREIMEL, Associated Press Writer
SEOUL, South Korea - Not long ago, angry chants of "murderous American GIs" and the somber flicker of anti-U.S. candlelight vigils once filled the downtown streets of Seoul.
But as tension builds over North Korea (news - web sites)'s suspected nuclear weapons program, pro-American rallies are drawing big crowds in the South Korean capital.
"The majority has been silent too long," said Kim Bum-soo, who is helping organize a major pro-U.S. demonstration March 1 urging Washington to keep its troops here.
Supporters hope to attract 500,000 people. It follows two pro-American rallies last month that each attracted tens of thousands to support South Korea (news - web sites)'s top ally.
The more vocal pro-American mood swing is a turnaround from just months ago when tens of thousands of South Koreans joined candlelit protests and chanted down the U.S. military after the deaths of two South Korean girls struck by an American vehicle.
At that time, pro-U.S. counterrallies managed to muster only dozens. Now with the tide shifted, anti-U.S. protests are now small and localized, such as a recent one opposing a construction project at a U.S. base.
Giving impetus to the turnaround is talk in Washington of cutting back on the 37,000 U.S. troops based in South Korea as a deterrent against a North Korean attack.
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said last week that the United States is working to see if it should restructure or reduce its forces or possibly move troops away from Seoul or the demilitarized zone separating the two Koreas.
And Gen. Leon J. LaPorte, commander of the U.S. military in Korea, acknowledged Thursday that Seoul and Washington need to reassess their 50-year-old military alliance.
That's chilling news to many in South Korea, especially the older generation that remembers the North Korean invasion that sparked the 1950-53 war.
No one has indicated that such a troop adjustment is imminent, and analysts say it would be unlikely to happen during the current North Korean standoff. But to many South Koreans, it is premature to even talk about tinkering with defenses while North Korea is believed to be sitting on one or two atomic bombs and trying to develop more.
"Definitely, this is going to give the wrong signal," Kim said. Rising to the call is a cross-section of staunchly anti-communist Christian and Buddhist groups, as well as veterans and elderly who survived the Korean War.
Even President-elect Roh Moo-hyn, who takes office next week and has vowed not to "kowtow" to Washington, sees a stable troop level as a key policy plank.
Most South Koreans favor the presence of U.S. troops, even if only grudgingly. But an underlying resentment flourishes, especially among the young who want South Korea to be more independent and see Washington as provoking the North.
Hinting at a troop reduction now may be Washington's way of trying to rein in the South, which has differed with the United States over the standoff with North Korea, said Paik Haksoon of the Sejong Institute think tank outside Seoul.
The United States already has plans to consolidate bases and will phase out dozens of its 95 installations by 2011. But if U.S. forces were pulled out or actually scaled back, South Korea's Ministry of National Defense estimates it would boost South Korean defense spending from 2.7 percent of gross domestic product to as high as 6 percent.
That could undercut President-elect Roh's hopes of rekindling the sour economy.
"They are trying to persuade us into taking their side," Paik said. "The U.S. is trying to play a trump card."
(source = http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=535&e=3&cid=535&u=/ap/20030222/ap_on_re_as/skorea_supporting_america)
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted February 23, 2003 03:12 AM |
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North Korea is shaping up as one of the most evil nations on the world. The North Korean dictator is a millitartistic blood thirsty man who would do nothing more than to crush the whole world down with its nuclear missiles. Personally, I consider North Korea as a bigger threat to the world than Iraq, since they actually do have the resources to build tons of mass-destruction nuclear missiles.
Hopefully the United States, NATO, and the UN and the rest of the world keeps a good eye on the dictator and his army of mass destruction. Then, we can make sure that North Korea does not get it's way of destroying this world we live in.
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No one knows my true nature here...
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted February 23, 2003 11:22 AM |
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 20, 2004 08:41 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 29 Mar 2004
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War With North Korea Would Start WW3
It is so simple to me. PrivateHudson will back me, I'm sure on this. If we americans invade North Korea pre-emptively we would lose.
First off it would be the worst political loss in a war since Vietnam as we would most certainly not have Brittish support. Why is Brittish support so key to winning an american started battle? I'll let the good doctor explain that one(right after he finishes mowing down the rest of those aliens attacking him and Ripley and that little girl)
Second, Invasion of North Korea means something to the greater picture of the geographic region as a whole. Let's say we won(not), that would mean we would have a democratic korean peninsula with american troops sharing a border with China. Oh my god, they would never let that happen. When we think of going to war with North Korea we better damn well look slightly to the north at a population of well over 1 billion. In fact let me give the exact numbers as per the cia website.
Here is the 2003 estimate for China:
Population: 1,286,975,468
Land mass of entire country = only slightly smaller than the U.S.
estimated population growth rate is .6%
Their military manpower which is male age 15-49 is:
375,520,255
That's right folks, it's all in one place. They don't have their army spread all over the world. In case anyone was wondering, a war with North Korea doesn't amount to much if you simply compare american stats to North Korea. We could take them without having to redirect too many troops. However, like I always say: "A war with North Korea means a war with China." If we went to war with North Korea then China would ask themselves one of two questions.
Q#1:Should we help North Korea?
Q#2: Should we remain neutral, thus allowing the U.S. to set up camp near our border?
It is my opinion that if China decides to help their repulsive ugly unagreeable nasty neighbors then the U.S. would lose completely as we can't just go nuking China when they disagree with us. The world at large would then turn on the U.S. If they choose to remain neutral then that Crackpot of a leader for North Korea will probably decide to nuke China to force them to enter the war. He's insane, no question about it.
Ok, now remember the last time we saw China test a nuclear weapon above ground? Yes that's right, it was the upgraded H-bomb(which is slightly stronger than the bombs that fell in Japan)<----total sarcasm
Oh, does it matter if both North Korea and China are communist? It does slightly but the real issue is well....the closest analogy I can think of would be the Soviet Union in the Cuban missile crisis. The question is: How close do you want your enemy to get to you? JFK's answer: "BACK OFF!"
So just as PrivateHudson has said I believe a war with North Korea would fail miserably both politically and militarily.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Celfious 
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 20, 2004 10:29 PM |
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(This is not exactly about the war)
I was there man..
I was attached to "the" #1 ship of that coast. "The" flag ship of the west coast (calif/japan). Those guys came on my ship. I was in flight quarters man! I watched them haul in a bunch of Koreans for meetings and food!
I shouldve peed on the choppers.
edit: This is by request I'm expounding a bit into my military experience aboard the 7th fleet command ship. Skip if you dont want to read it.
There is 2 commands on the ship. The 7th fleet (admiral & his devices, including around 2-400 personel indirect aide to the admiral) and the Blue Ridge.
Blue ridge is the ship, and its personel. I was a part of that just keeping electricity under maintanence.
Blue ridge were sometimes servents to the admiral. (Infact our missions was to provide an adaquate flag ship operable and safe) And the flight deck would be utilized underway to transport him, and sometimes other beings. I was a part of the on scene fire team.
Its really not a big deal like it seems (seemed to me before i got there) but there were advantages.
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What are you up to
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drakemaster2
Adventuring Hero
known as goshimasta
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posted February 24, 2004 05:39 AM |
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Personally I hate North KOrea.
First they are communists and soooo poor. One 10 year NK old kid has the same height of the SK 8 year old kid. North Korea has small amount of food and if South and North unify the whol country will starve to death. In that way they should change their politics.
South Korea's politics are not fully accurate. 3/4 of the politics were a frraud. But the tradition, economy, Culture and servies all alright. See thread Bush=JunDooHWan?
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You wanna dragon? Then talk to the drakemaster2
Known as Goshimasta
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drakemaster2
Adventuring Hero
known as goshimasta
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posted February 24, 2004 05:52 AM |
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War?
Neyutral
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You wanna dragon? Then talk to the drakemaster2
Known as Goshimasta
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 24, 2004 06:59 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 24 Feb 2004
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I Wonder What Will Happen
A healthy economy is the key to the survival of North Korea as a sovereign nation.I don't know what's going to happen to them.
Have any of you ever wished good things for a country like North Korea? I have. I wish that some person in that country would rise to be it's symbol of hope. Many countries around the world honor their heros from their own history. People young or old, wealthy or poor, that decided they would spearhead the bastion of light to instill hope and progress in an oppressed people. To fight for freedom.
I have always wondered how people like that come to exist. Are they simply a statistic or are they truly unique? Is there a hero or heroine for every so many millions of people or do some countries simply not have them? I wonder.
I hope for the people of North Korea, that someone can rise to the challenge of saving it's people much in the same way Martin Luther King jr did for the civil rights of all minorities in america. His message was not only for americans but all people everywhere. This may be a new modern era of technology and medicine but the concept remains the same.
Tyranny, oppression, dictatorship, and starvation would motivate me to rebel against any government committing these atrocities. Nothing in the world could alter the impression of a starving mother and her child from my mind except the freedom of either them or other people that came after them. They must be freed, if only, someone could do this in the proper way.
Brainstorm possibilities(thoughts to myself):
Question: What if my country invaded to try and save this people from dying of starvation?
Answer: Nuclear weapons detonated in any fashion would increase the number of people who die over the number that would already die from such uncivilized and inhospitable conditions.
Question: Perhaps if we airlift food and supplies to the regions of people below poverty. Maybe they can get food and basic medical supplies that way.
Answer: Too dangerous. The planes might be shot down as we have no favorable diplomatic relations with this country. Also, dropping food would not prevent the military from seizing it for themselves. This happened in Afghanistan. Food was dropped but the northern opposition forces grabbed it before the many other starving and hungry people could get the food. It was meant for well-being but it did not turn out that way.
Question: Perhaps we could negotiate a deal with a country who has a workable diplomatic relationship with this country. Maybe we could broker a deal with China to take a more proactive role in the health of it's neigboring country. Maybe the U.N. could ask China to increase trade with North Korea. What can China do to help the North Koreans?
Answer: No, China has made many suggestions for economic policy reforms that would help the country. All reforms were dismissed and the government sought nuclear armaments technology. They have obtained nuclear weapon's-grade material and have backed out of many peace-talks with the U.N.
Question: What can we do? What can I do? What can anyone do?
Answer: I don't know.
Question: What can you do when a country refuses aid, reforms, negotiations, and any other outside attempts to help its people?
I truly do not know the answer. I don't know how to fix this problem but I most certainly know that a war is not the answer yet. At this point I do not believe any country in the world is ready to take pre-emptive strikes of any kind. The people suffer and they die while their army gets treated like royalty. They are strong and well-fed.
They are a nuclear capable nation with starving people. That speaks volumes to me. To be powerful and yet blind. It seems almost......self destructive.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2004 07:04 PM |
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"Personally I hate North KOrea.
First they are communists and soooo poor."
How incredibly good reasons for hating them.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 12, 2005 10:32 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 12 Feb 2005
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Tensions Are High
At this point, today, I am unsure what the future holds. I don't understand how President Bush can successfully ally our country with China to openly oppose North Korea. How can this feat be accomplished? I am very afraid today. Something is not right and I fear for the South Koreans.
Edit: Here is a link to Peacemaker's thread that went from the original topic to a North Korean discussion:
 http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=10&TID=13057
I found that thread to contain a good deal of relative posts on North Korea. I hope others will also.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 13, 2005 05:42 AM |
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Quote:
At this point, today, I am unsure what the future holds. I don't understand how President Bush can successfully ally our country with China to openly oppose North Korea. How can this feat be accomplished? I am very afraid today. Something is not right and I fear for the South Koreans.
Edit: Here is a link to Peacemaker's thread that went from the original topic to a North Korean discussion:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=10&TID=13057
I found that thread to contain a good deal of relative posts on North Korea. I hope others will also.
I can't say I fear for the South Koreans, because they would find enough allies in case a war starts. Taiwan, the US, all of the US's allies. After all, if the US managed to find some support to attack Iraq, they'd find support to defent SK. With China no longer really communist, and the USSR out of the way, NK can do no serious damage unless they just start launching nukes all over the place, with a guaranteed defeat for themsevles. I don't know, I just don't see a country doing that. Maybe they could, but I doubt it.
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted February 14, 2005 02:06 AM |
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I am seeing a lot of hate for North Korea in some posts here that i dont understand.
I would appreciate if somebody would direct me to a place where i can find some unbiased and objective info about the current political situation over there.
All i know so far is what i have read in the documents on the "Project for the New American Century" which talks about the US having various strategic locations for occupation on foreign soil mapped out in order to defend its position as the worlds last remaining super power.
In the document entitled "Rebuilding America's defences: Strategy, Forces and resources for a new century". There is discussion on page 30 about the need for U.S forces to be based permanently on the Asian continent as being a key role in U.S. security strategy in the event of Korean Unification and with the rise of Chinese military power.
The entire project outline is an unambiguous discription of a plan for Global domination, but i dont know whether or not it is an accurate reflection of Americas foreign policy or just a sensationalist interpretation of it, and it tells me nothing about North Korea itself.
Anyone else who has read about this project. I would like to know if this thing is actually for real.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 14, 2005 02:22 AM |
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Doubt you'd ever find any unbiased info about NK. They remain very closed and seperated from the world, so there can only be two accounts: what our leaders speculate about them, and what they say about themselves.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 14, 2005 04:06 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Feb 2005
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DoddTheSlayer,
I have two things to say:
1. America is not the last remaining superpower. You are British yes? Did you not hear that your economic currency has surpassed the U.S.'s? So much for American economic superiority...
2. It's not a very good idea to simply read one report and believe what you read. It might be a good idea for you to research Russian and Chinese interests/relations with each other and North Korea. I've done some research in this area and I believe the Chinese are going to decide what happens with North Korea, not the U.S.
And don't forget my earlier posts. America has recently pulled most of its troops out of South Korea(supposedly to support Iraqi military shift rotations). What does that sound like to you? I believe, if there is going to be any sort of North Korean campaign, that America will do nothing more than lend air support to Chinese troops. We have many bases in the Pacific we can launch from, not to mention our carriers(mobile flight decks ).
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 14, 2005 04:21 PM |
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Quote:
1. America is not the last remaining superpower. You are British yes? Did you not hear that your economic currency has surpassed the U.S.'s? So much for American economic superiority...
True, but there is more to a superpower and it's economy than just the state of the currency. Britain's military is minute compared to most other non-superpowers for a start.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 15, 2005 06:31 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 15 Feb 2005
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And?
I fail to see those numerically greater global militaries setting foot on British soil. The British royal navy is among the finest in the world, possibly THE finest. And it's been that way since Drake. I would argue that the British are currently building counter-missile-threat launch sites within the country through a partnership with the U.S. This missile deterrent system coupled with the most powerful navy in the world seems to make obselete larger military bodies that would inevitably be required to cross the channel to reach your shores. Add to all that military prowess, legacy, seamanship, advanced technology, and well trained soldiers the highest GDP in the world. That means they have the purchasing power/parity to command a great deal more than a naval fleet. This is all subjective to the times of course.
In fact I would argue that the U.K. is probably a U.S. partner in every foreign relation we become involved with.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 15, 2005 06:32 PM |
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I fail to see those numerically greater global militaries setting foot on British soil
Well basically, superpower status to me owes much to one's ability to influence the world without needing to ask for help from another. Britain's military is struggling right now to cope with one relatively small (compared to say WW2 or Korea in terms of our committment) campaign in which it plays second fiddle in numerical terms. Imagine for a moment if the UK had gone it alone in Iraq, it simply could not have. Britain has a very well trained and decently equipped army, but it's not going to be capable of beating up anything at this time without strong support. We barely managed to win the Falklands...
Quote:
The British royal navy is among the finest in the world, possibly THE finest.
But it is not very capable of impressing it's might on other navies of any notable size. We simply could not do what the USN did in Iraq for example, it's not large enough.
But yes, we're entirely capable of defending ourselves, but our impact on others is rather minor if we tried to go it alone.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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