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| Thread: Which map type do you prefer? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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3lionshield
Hired Hero
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posted April 10, 2001 05:16 PM |
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I prefer open maps with lots of player interaction.
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Troelsen
Hired Hero
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posted April 10, 2001 05:48 PM |
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For me it doesnt matter wheter maps are closed or open. I think the fun about heroes doesnt ahve anything to do with map played but for me its more the development and choice of strategi vrs annother human. I think towns, heroes, arts, guarding monsters all assures thaht every game is different even if u have played a map lots of times.
I prefer known maps always because both players has same possibilitites and knowledge of map and its contents. Therefore it gives u a "fair" game in which the player being able to make the best strategi most often wins.
Then some would say "that u do the same things in every gme and its just a matter of learning the ONE way to play it" But i totally disagree on this because, as i mentioned before, arts, towns, guarding creatures, camps, etc. has great impact.So in my opinion u cant learn how to play a map on the same and perfect way everytime.
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Nernug
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 11, 2001 03:08 PM |
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Newbie
I'm pretty new to this game. I only play the maps on the cd and the ones I make myself.
Can anyone please tell me what closed,open and random maps mean? (I think I know but just wanna make sure)
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"When The last Tree Is Cut, The Last River Poisoned And The Last Fish Dead, We Will Discover That We Cant Eat Money"
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Mr_Shane
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 11, 2001 03:48 PM |
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i have to agree with troelsen
No two games are alike in heroes 3, Even if you select towns and heroes; the artifacts , creatures you get at camps, monsters, even secondary skills offered to heroes cannot be controlled. Therefore, even if we know the map before hand, there would be certain things we would not be able to predict and leave them all up to chance.
I think that If you really want a balanced, fair map; forget about the random map generator,set all artifacts, monsters etc, etc beforehand, then luck would probably have no part in the outcome.
But as things stand, it seems to be our different preferences for the various sorts of uncertainties in the game which have probably given rise to this debate. And just as well too, if every game were the same i would be very bored.
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CGChewie
Hired Hero
Master of the Obvious
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posted April 11, 2001 04:11 PM |
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This is what (I think) they mean...
Closed maps are where you and your enemies are separated by a color guard and/or monster.
Open are where there is nothing between you and your enemy but the open road.
Random is a completely randomly generated map(although I beleive you can set some rules/limits... I have never played one, but I think I can because I have 3.2 SOD, but I never figured out how...)
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And I'm spent!
~CGChewie
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Mr_Shane
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 11, 2001 04:13 PM |
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dont play random maps often
so forgive me for asking this strange question, but has anyone come across a random open map?
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted April 11, 2001 07:58 PM |
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Random open maps
Yes, i have played many random open maps. The majority of the random maps i have played are open, very few of them are closed. But since it is a random map you have no idea where your opponent or the comp is going to be coming from, and you cant just explore without worrying about being attacked.
ironmlh
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Greiger
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 14, 2001 08:14 AM |
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Is a random map open?
It all depends on what you mean by open?
Usually there is some battle between you and opponents town, but normally not one you won't be able to beat in the first week. So if by open you mean you can get to opponents town with a battle, then not usually, but if you mean that you can get to opponent without haveing to build up an army to overpower a pack of level 7's then usually yes. Although I have seen examples of exception to both of these, they seem uncommon.
As for trying to remove the luck factor of the game, even if you make the map completely balanced by setting all monsters and all artifacts. Luck will still play a factor, for example, how much damage your creatures attack deals still depends on the random number generated to determine where on their damage range they happen to land. If your lucky max damage, unlucky min. Luck will always be a part of the game, and I'm glad for it. It makes the game interesting  .
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Gobs0 in Zone
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dargon
Famous Hero
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posted April 15, 2001 11:50 AM |
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Well my preferred option was not listed
I like blind maps first and foremost...nothing can compare to the excitment of the unknown! Since we have all played the existing maps to infinitum that usually means that Random are the only blind maps left. I don't really like how randoms are too random It is hard to develop a truly fair and fun random map.
Second to blind maps are closed maps. Again the fun of the game for me lies not just in combat but in building your hero and armies. Open maps just don't usally allow this type of development...at least not the development I am looking for A peon war is just not that fun to me A truly great battle is what I am looking for...you know like an analogous battle of USA versus China...where mighty forces square up against each other. Two pigmy wars in BFE with guys throwing rocks at each other just doesn't compare (no offense meant for those who live in BFE)
Keep rockin
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted April 20, 2001 11:00 PM |
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dont mind me
I like map topics since occasionly i make maps that never get played cus ves dont like me  my maps are not good maps for 200%
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted April 25, 2001 09:28 PM |
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vote
I thought i would make another post here to get this thread back on page 1. Then maybe some of the new people to this community can vote. Thanks.
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted May 25, 2001 07:38 PM |
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VOTE VOTE VOTE
again, i am bringing this post to the front page. Please vote if you are new to this forum and have not seen this Poll.
Thanks, ironmlh
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted May 26, 2001 07:51 AM |
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Luck or Not...
Mr Shane, Troelson;
I'd have to disagree with you vehemently about every heroes game being different. When I play closed maps that are much played in Toh so many times the final battle comes down to the same day and at the same point on the map everytime I play. Maybe the armies are a little different, or the hero stats slightly different, but that is a tinsy difference in a game as broad as Heroes3. As far as artifacts altering the game, yes they do, but the point is they are always in the same place, so people move and chain the same way everytime to reach all theri artifacts as quickly as possible. I don't know how other peope do it, but usually I leave all the artifacts except those guarded by really strong creatures to my lesser heroes, while my two main heroes concentrate on visiting all bonus locations and gathering all spells, This is easy to do on a map I have memorized and played many times. I can play 30 second turns on those maps except for how long it takes me to transfer armies when I chain. Most of my turn length is transferring armies and battles. On closed maps it requires very little thinking and planning. Sure someone can try something different, but it is obvious quickly when they do that, and those maps are so limited you can know what they are doing right away. In a way it is almost like chess, except for all that tiem spent- the final battle coms, and you see your Cloak of Crystal, Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment, and gnolls Flail are nothing vs opponents andals of Saint, Celestial Necklace, and Cloak of Speed... so it was a waste of time, Not much thought, and final battle matters mostly to luck of artifacts and spells.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted May 27, 2001 02:57 AM |
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I agree with kereberos
You will probably notice that most very experienced players will tell you that TOH popular maps are *not* the same all the time, but I still think they are. They got random types of mobs? Come on.. Sure you might have to change a few moves, but your main strategy is always the same.
The thing about randoms really all comes down to this:
You can play random maps, if you can afford a loss to the map balance. The highest level players often are not ready for that, whereas low level players are.
Thatīs why Im very happy to say Iīm a low level player, and Im very happy each time I lose because I know I will still be able to play a random map, wich is the TRUE game of HOMM3.
And ToH maps are unbalanced because they Enhance resource requiering castles with all those easy mines and riches, and totally devastate Inferno with removing armageddon (how about removing angels?). You edit = you shift the balance.
And the ToH map balance is shifted towards castle and away from inferno.
If you like castle, you take away implosion and armageddon.
If you like Tower, you put in some gold mines.
If you like Dungeon, you make sure theres an easy acess sulfur mine.
If you like fortress, you make sure theres some easy wood.
The imbalance lives and thrives on toh maps, where some castles are better than otheres. So much for developers balancing the game.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted May 27, 2001 08:54 AM |
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The developers did a great job.
Just the variables are too wide to leave some things to chance.
ie Dragon Utopia, random relics mainly.
Map designers need to be responsible for this.
The same as a good DM makes a good D&D game a good designer decides the quality of our games now.
Unless you define quality game as luck then of course all maps with random relics are good.
Especially for the one who gets the good ones =)
-Mocara
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 27, 2001 06:59 PM |
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I agree with Ichon!
Ichon said it best. No matter how welly ou play any map or how talented or skilled you are, sometimes the random luck factors are much to large to overcome.
Biggest example is that the map can be balanced perfectly and my opponents random relic can be Heavenly Helm and my relic can be Gold bag or 15% resistance boots. How can those all be considered the same class??? I think this is one of the main reasons many people are wanting more balanced maps. Most of the maps coming out now actually have alot more of the crappy relics banned on the map. i.e. resistance boots - goldbag - waterwalkboots( always nice to get those when NO water on map)
But bottom line is even if some of the map makers do try and make different style maps everyone would have to be willing to give them a chance. And most poeple wont even try a new map. SO there is no sense in debating to try and find a new or different style cause even if one is found you would never know since you wont try it. ( You = general TOH population)
Just a note: any map makers that wish to develop a new a unique style map let me know I will play it!
Jinxer
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 28, 2001 07:06 AM |
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How that, you will play it? You never play maps that are different from TOH "standard". Even more, you add your own creations at same standard. Start playing first seven lakes or beltway, and, maybe then, I will trust you when saying you will play " a new unique style map"
By the way, how many players were interested playing a map I made for allied conquest tournament, "the quest"? It was in a new style, but not worseIt is still downloadable on toh maps, but I think I am the only one having it on my HD, eh...lost time
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted May 28, 2001 08:38 AM |
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I have it Salamandre and it is terrific.
I did not know you made it.
And to Jinxer I fully agree but mapmakers really need to recognize the limits of the editor unless they are trying to make the game come down to luck.
I play HG a lot because my friend Scott insist we play it.
It is truly a flaw of the editor that sack of gold and earth tome are both considered level 4 artifacts.
But designers need not let it take over the game the way it does on Battlemania or Hourglass.
I love Pan and we have discussed it and she says she likes the luck and a lot of other players do too and thats cool.
But if balance it to be acheived people have to a Battle for Power type idea and make the desired artifacts unatainable.
-Mocara
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 28, 2001 12:07 PM |
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"The Quest" is both open and closed map. Off course, 20 behemots are between you and opponents but you are close to agressive computer who "knows" you start on impossible mode day 1 ans will make you hard life.
The underground is based on new ideas, strong computers are guarding the only existing mines, but taking early their castles in upper world will eliminate them 7 days later.
But only then the things will become interesting. I expect a bloody scouts war in the underground to keep the few mines. No way on this map to build early guild and win by luck. From underground there is no return, so you must choose wisely early if you send army there or only magic scouts...because the final war will be outside.
If anyone plays this map, I would be interested in comments, it took me time to test it in all details and I would like to think it offers a conciliation between open and closed.
You need a close ally to play it, I know even best player can lose there before day 7.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted May 28, 2001 03:07 PM |
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I went and DLed it
After reading the description I went and downloaded it. Now I just need to play with with someone, it looks interesting to me. Better intensity from day 1 with those computer opponents.
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