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| Thread: Luck in HOMM |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted June 28, 2001 12:17 AM |
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Luck in HOMM
Can someone explain to me how is luck and fair HOMM game related??
Are there people outthere to tell me that if there was no luck at all in HOMM they`d be better players?
Luck is what I appreciate the most of HOMM. When I have 12 of damage to do to kill a dragon with 5 hapies doing from 1-4 of damage, i like to gamble...
For those who hate the luck factor I`d suggest you play chess instead of HOMM?  And if you ever face a grand master of chess I`d bet you`d wish luck had a much bigger role in chess !
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Re-Animator
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 28, 2001 01:11 AM |
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While I love the luck factor in most aspects of this game, there are a few instances that bother me somewhat.
Luck that I like:
random damage
morale boosts/freezes
luck in combat
creature specialties
the spells I do/don't get in my guilds
the heroes offered to me vs. my opp.
creature ranges in numbers (will lots be 21 or 49 - will there be all giants or half titans and half giants)
whether the comp comes after me, my opp, or both
my chests give me crap artifact when i needed gold
500 gold vs. 5 gems
Luck I can live with out:
I get the celestial necklace of bliss from a shipwreck survivor (= +16 levels essentially)
hill fort near one of our starting castles (generally I won't use)
cartographer near one of our starting castles (generally I won't use)
too many stat boosting structures on a map
The former set of luck still allows for a decent game no matter how crappy your luck may be. The latter set makes me wonder why I'm not playing MOO2.
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted June 28, 2001 05:44 PM |
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No one can go without luck
Well, even in chess you still have some luck. The luck that the other player won't realize this move until it's too late (I've done that). And in this game, even with how much attck you do against a stack, taht's luck. The higher it is, the better you're chances. You really can't go without luck in this game, if you did elminate the luck bonus in battle. And sometimes, that luck thing saves me, and others it doesn't. I think it's okay to stay in there, it adds more randomness (is that a word?) to the game and battles.
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-LadyLily
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 28, 2001 07:57 PM |
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I think ive said this before but...
Lady you miss the point the game of chess has no luck involved no aspect of the game contains luck at all. It may be "lucky" for opponent not to notice a winning move but chess its self contains no luck. Unlike heroes which has lots of random elements which has been describe above.
So theres nothing random/lucky in chess its skill skill skill skill. For example chess would involve luck if at the start you throw a dice and get 6 which means you get 2 queens.
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted June 29, 2001 02:40 AM |
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Well....
In a way, tehre are different levels of luck I believe. And probably the lowest level is if someone doesn't make this move or that. Some people would call that "luck", others wouldn't. I guess you aren't one of those people. Yes, I agree that chess is mostly skill. Isn't driving mostly skill too? But isn't there that factor of "wrong place at the wrong time" for an accident?
How we got from HoMM to chess to driving is beyond me.
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-LadyLily
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 29, 2001 04:06 PM |
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Quote:
How we got from HoMM to chess to driving is beyond me.
Thats all been from you im wondering where you will head next.
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted June 29, 2001 07:21 PM |
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As far as i recall frank, u nearly quit toh because u lost a game(or more) to luck...
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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ghostofdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 29, 2001 08:15 PM |
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they dhould get rid of luck
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I AM THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted June 29, 2001 10:04 PM |
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Zedrin,
I didn`t nearly quit toh. I quit toh. On two occasions even. 1st time was upon the only way I`d manage to successfully get through my university degree [Note to self: post that last sentence into Mocara`s topic ``More important than heroes``  ] he 2nd time was upon an unfortunate event during Lord of Erathia subtourney. It had nothing to do with bad luck.
BTW, When I lose a game it`s either because I underestimate a colonel playing under a newbie nickname or plain and simple lousy playing on my part....
Bad luck in HOMM for me would be having a comp monster group having high moral in the only fight I didn`t split my troops to protect my archers
What would be badluck for you in a game Zedrin?
- Frank
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted June 30, 2001 02:36 AM |
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Arachnid, I was just trying to make connections. Some people have an easier time if they can relate to this real world than with just a game. I'm trying to help out and post my opinion.
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-LadyLily
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hsanders
Known Hero
Tolkiens protecter
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posted June 30, 2001 03:01 AM |
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Quote:
I think ive said this before but...
Lady you miss the point the game of chess has no luck involved no aspect of the game contains luck at all. It may be "lucky" for opponent not to notice a winning move but chess its self contains no luck. Unlike heroes which has lots of random elements which has been describe above.
So theres nothing random/lucky in chess its skill skill skill skill. For example chess would involve luck if at the start you throw a dice and get 6 which means you get 2 queens.
Totally correct, I couldn't agree more! Chess has no luck!
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YouSmell
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 30, 2001 03:53 AM |
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Yah luck is kinda suck when a map sets 2 relics on each side, blue proberly end up get bag of gold 750(i think) and boots (walk on water one) while red get sword with 5+ skills and heavelnly helm i think (6+ to skill)...lol yeh that would be suck. But what heck, i lose because i suck and careless anyways, without luck in this game, would be too complicated and boring and dole really
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted July 01, 2001 10:49 AM |
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Bad luck for me?
Hmmm... lemme think... the net dropping in the middle of the game... trying to reconnect for two hours and when finnaly succeeding realizing that my opponent is long gone...
That's bad luck, and i'm cursed with it
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted July 01, 2001 11:53 AM |
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To Aranha
I don't know how you can't see Lady Lily's point of view when it comes to chess, it's very easy to see. You're splitting hairs with the terms 'luck' and 'lucky', but essentially they result in the same thing (giving you an advantage/disadvantage). She said exactly the right thing about chess, it IS luck when your opponent fails to realize a move, especially when you know that they would normally not fall for such a manouvre. This sort of luck is inconsistent, you cannot rely upon it to win you a game, but in Heroes, you know that there will ALWAYS be an element of luck, just as (gorgeous) Re-Animator described. The two games have luck, yet you just can't count on it in chess. That doesn't mean that chess is a luckless game.
There is luck in everything we do in life and the only thing you can do about it, is try to minimize its unfortunate occurences. Why whinge about it? You guys may as well whinge about 'why was I born the way I was?' LMAO
"Do you think you're lucky punk?" - Harry
*smile*
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 01, 2001 01:44 PM |
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Yes a game of chess may involve luck but thats due to the players NOT the game. Theres no random elements in chess but there is in heroes. Theres never a chance that you will get to move twice in a row or random placings of pieces its all ways the same. So THE GAME cant be lucky.
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Tamanrasset
Hired Hero
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posted July 01, 2001 03:06 PM |
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Indeed, I have to side with you here Arachnid. If a player doesnīt see a particular move, itīs got nothing to do with the game - nor would I call it (bad) luck at all - he just doesnīt play up to his competence, too bad for him.
Driving though Yeah, here Iīd say thereīs "luck" involved, what whit all the random features involved (weather etc).
In heroes I donīt mind the luck involved, although there are some parts Iīd call development disasters (like above mentioned chance to get relic from shipwreck survivors, and even more, the huge difference there can be between two artifacts of the same level)... But I think heroes 4 will be a better game, all categories, then heroes 3.
Tam, being somewhat optimistic
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted July 01, 2001 05:33 PM |
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Luck in chess/Heroes
I have played one Grandmaster and quite a few Masters in chess. With one exception all were disastrous for me 8)
While everyone is correct in saying that there is no luck in the game of chess there is often luck (good and bad) in the PLAY of chess. For instance, a high rated player accidently leading me into my favorite variation of the Sicilian Defense! Or conversly, he plays a Kings Gambit that I have always been afraid of.
The same exact kind of luck happens in Heroes all the time! Your opponent wants a map that you know very well and you are playing the town that you prefer! Or the opposite, you dont know the map and you draw a town you dont like.
Both games share a more important similarity tho, an accumulation of small advantages causing a win is the most
desireable. A pawn in chess is often enough. Your opponent blundering away his Queen is not a satisfying win. Your opponent in Heroes moving his/her Angels to your side of the board within range of your Manticores & Minotaurs was probably a mistake and not a very fun win.
The other kind of luck tho does not happen in chess, an lightly or unguarded Major Arty early in the game will probably win the game. Or... your only Wood source guarded by Cyclops Kings will sink your Stronghold.
If I find a Hill Fort I will use it every time! Who knows, my opponent may have a Hill Fort AND an unguarded Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment 8)
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted July 02, 2001 01:59 AM |
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Obi Wan
How lucky we are to have a true legend posting here in Frank.
I was playing basketball a few days ago and an opposing player out of frustration said "You wouldn't have won except the ball came right to you. Luckya** motherf&*ker!!!"
I was thinking that he was not wise enough to understand what was luck and what was not.
When I see a ball going to the basket I try to figure out where it will hit multiplied by the distance and spin and put myself where it will come down at. When I can't get there I try to stay close to the ball and often times the player who gets the ball will dribble it poorly or lose control and I will be in the "right place at the right time."
Lucky me.
Luck can be unnerving in heroes but there are 2 types of luck I think.
There is the type where we play hourglass2 and we know going in that luck will be a huge factor and then there is the luck that occurs like when I was playing beltway vs Shane and all 3 of my shipwreck survivors were relics!!
Rediculous luck that unbalanced a perfectly balanced map.
Of course on the other hand Shane should have been in the water before me anyway due to his position on the map so I guess the "luck" I received I made for myself by being agressive.
It seems like "luck" always does go to the more aggressive party.
I think generally a master heroes player like Frank, Phantom, Maxym, etc is "lucky" because they know the mathematical chances of every single thing they see and are able to try more spins of the wheel faster than the other guy.
In other words, they make the luck.
-Mocara
"In my experience there is no such thing as luck." - Obi Wan Kenobe
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2001 03:03 AM |
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Several things to say!
Firstly I just want to ask Re-Animator what is wrong with MoO2? ;-) That was one of my favorite games of all times, but the multiplayer was distressingly long. One battle would be hours as I recall. I only ever managed a few games online because of this fact, but I still remember each one with bliss. If only MoO1 had been multiplayer... *sigh*
As for luck- Moc is mostly right here; the best players seem to be always lucky only when you see the results of their play, not what they did to achieve it. Sure, you might say it is lucky that I got Artifact that stops Chain Lightening at the same time as Orb of Vulnerability with Dungeon and hide that fact till almost end of battle when I resurrect Blacks in big surprise, but was it really luck? In order to take that artifact in week 2 and attack, I had to give up several otehr artifacts due to not enough time, and also aim for that artifact a soon as I saw it with a scout. Many variations on this theme- if I am playing Stronghold on WvsE and my neutral town is Castle which I capture day 2, then I build only Behmoths in the Stronghold and build to Angels in my Castle along with making it my main town... then player comes and attacks my stronghold which after an expensive battle for him due to the level 8 hero with meteor and chain I put in the town to defend it, then I attack with AA's fastest to caste mass haste and decimate his army in 1 turn without every taking my relics artifacts... did I get lucky or just play well?
What I consider luck is when my 4th level guilds gives me water walk and inferno when my main's magic is earth and I also didn't get anything except stoneskin & earthquake in the guild. Or perhaps my relic is sandals of saint compared to my opponent getting Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment and also finding Armor of Wonder for free outside his main town, while I have to fight a pack of Gold Dragons to get my measly sandals and he has to fight only a pack of bone dragons... etc. Of course, on all those above instances-
I could have built 2 heroes, a might hero, and a magic hero each with different magic schools- so lets say my magic hero stunk with ony earth magic, but my might hero has air magic and I have haste and fortune on him. Now if if I find red orb, or recanters or get lucky and have a large creature join I appear to be the lucky one because of main is might and take advantage of such things better than a magic hero would have. Or in the second instance I take my sandals and go to an altar sacrificing them since I have boots of polarity I would prefer to wear in battle and gain 2 levels getting expert earth and expert resistance. Now I can cast resurrect well, and also my opponents chain lightening misses 3 of my creatures when he casts it, but mine hits all of his- the difference in +6 power between 18 & 24 is not so significant.
All those above actually occured to me in games- there was a point in each scenario where I thought I would lsoe for sure, and was ready to give up due to the bad 'luck' I thought plagued me. I end up winning, but really some woudl say because I also had good luck. Well, I didn't have that good luckj without realizing certain things about the game and then taking advantage of them. That is more skill...
Naturally I think there is much luck in this game, but skill is how you manipulate that luck or eliminate it entirely in remaining flexiable to the randomness and anticipating ahead, if you flip a coin it's luck which side it will land on, but if you are prepared for both heads and tails, it doesn't matter which side it lands on.
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Re-Animator
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2001 10:10 AM |
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Quote:
...just as (gorgeous) Re-Animator described...
Just so we're all clear on this, I'm going to assume Shae is talking about me and not my avatar and nothing said after this will change my mind.
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